My players and I have come back to gaming after several years of absence; we haven't had a steady game going since the early 90s. Though several of us moved off to the four corners of the earth (Kuwait, Peru, Oklahoma, etc), we managed to get in the occasional game. It happened maybe once a year.
However, since we've all moved back a little closer to our roots, we started up a steady, fun, ongoing campaign. That hadn't happened since we played 2e. So, we found Pathfinder and dove into Curse of the Crimson Throne. The APs are magnificent and really help us keep our campaign together. Though we only get to play every 4-6 weeks, we love it.
However, since the majority of us haven't really played since 2e, the Pathfinder system seems mindbogglingly complex to many of my players. They are there to have fun, escape awhile, role play, etc. Not one of them is a rules lawyer in the slightest. They want to have some fun adventuring together and the rules are only seen as peripheral to that.
So the way it has played out it, as the GM, I am expected to know the rules enough so that we can function. Before every session, we have a review tutorial of things with which they are unfamiliar (CMD, CMB, DC checks, etc). It has worked out ok. I don't mind doing it, and as long as my players are having fun, I'm happy.
But we've hit a snag. Some of the other guys would like to GM (and I'd love the chance to play as a PC), but the ruleset is just too much for them to feel comfortable doing it. I struggle with it myself and it seems overwhelming to them.
So, to finally ask my question: have any of you experimented with a simplification of the rules? How would you go about doing that anyway? All the rules seem very pertinent and valuable, addressing so many of the game's concerns - where would you even begin to boil it down a bit? We'd love to play the APs and modules, but is there a simpler way to do it?
I appreciate any help I can get on this.
that's a pretty hard question I suppose, would it really be bad to just try and see how it goes, sometimes the best fun comes from the worst mistakes ^^
Only real way to learn is to play it and you will learn alot from GMing a campaign.
Myself and my friends have done it since 2nd edition as well, infact you might be happy to have missed 3.0 and 3.5 edition, we tend to mix those up with pathfinder since it is quite similar but different in many small ways.
Might just limit the books and resources you use at first and dont worry too much about rewriting characters a bit when you become more familiar with the rules as they are.
Try to use monsters opponents with few special abilities and some nice roleplaying and puzzlesolving encounters to ease into it ?
Start with low level characters, and read up on any new spells that you get, do not assume you know it already.
Common sense wins the day, dont worry about rules as much make a judgement call that works and look it up after a session so that it doesnt eat your gametime away too much.
not sure if pathfinder has a ready made GM screen, if not might want to make a quick reference sheet and place at least one copy on the table for players to use. they'll learn the basics quick enough.
If you want to play fantasy roleplaying with an easy to use system that feels pretty much just like D&D, I say at least try Castles & Crusades. It runs much faster and is far easier to understand. There isn't a 600 page rulebook. You can be gaming in an hour, killing orcs and taking their stuff.
Or, you can point them to d20pfsrd.com and see if it makes it any easier to grok Pathfinder. I've been adding a lot of things in that were missed from 3.5 (like description of bonuses, area of effect diagrams to individual spells, and quick summaries of some more complicated spells like entangle). One of the other collaborators has created a "fastplay" version of the skills system. Its not a new system so much as just a fast-view summary of what each skill does and how it works. I say give that a shot and see if it helps at all.
Alternatively, you can use the Pathfinder PRD, which may be easier (or not, who knows?)
not sure if pathfinder has a ready made GM screen, if not might want to make a quick reference sheet and place at least one copy on the table for players to use. they'll learn the basics quick enough.
Pathfinder just came out with their GM screen a month or so ago. It's really good, too, with lots of useful information that comes up regularly.
The screen is extremely high quality. My only wish is that it was in landscape format instead of portrait, as my DM keeps knocking it over. The damn thing is so sturdy it about flattens minis on the battlemat every time too.
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I remember somebody posted that in the group he GM's, the closest there is to an optimizer is someone who actually owns the core rulebook. He said his group isn't interested in the rules (they rely on him for that). They just like the story and rolling the dice.
My friend had always GM'd our group. When I finally decided to give it a try, I focused on knowing the module/plot/storyline really well. That doesn't require knowing the rules extensively. For combat and other rule-dependent things, my friend helped me out (and continues to help me out for that matter).
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So, to finally ask my question: have any of you experimented with a simplification of the rules? How would you go about doing that anyway? All the rules seem very pertinent and valuable, addressing so many of the game's concerns - where would you even begin to boil it down a bit? We'd love to play the APs and modules, but is there a simpler way to do it?I appreciate any help I can get on this.
Found this little gem a while back.
Thank you for your suggestions. I bought the GM screen and I think it will be very helpful. Part of the struggle is maintaining the pace of the game. Combat takes forever, and looking up details (especially spells) can destroy whatever flow we have going.
Agreed. Stopping the game every five minutes to search through a book can be time-consuming and break the flow of an otherwise enjoyable game. In many cases, unless its critical, its better to make a decision based on what you think makes sense at the time and keep the game flowing. You can always look up those things after the session to see if you did it right or what you should have done. It does make sense though to at least take a little time the first few times you play to familiarize yourself with the most commonly used mechanics, such as CMB/CMD etc. That way you make sure to get it right the first time. Once you've looked it up once or twice you should start to remember how it goes.
What I would recommend for rulings that come up in a situation where you want to keep the mojo flowing is to give the rulebook to the least-involved player (the player whose turn just ended if in combat, the socially inept character in a tense diplomatic negotiation, etc) and have them look up the rule in question. The Core Rulebook has an excellent Index.
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Found this little gem a while back.
wow, this is really great! I've been trying to figure out how to introduce the game to a much younger audience and this seems like the perfect solution: different but the same. Thanks for the link.
(likewise, I'm looking forward to Harvesters!)
Agreed. Stopping the game every five minutes to search through a book can be time-consuming and break the flow of an otherwise enjoyable game. In many cases, unless its critical, its better to make a decision based on what you think makes sense at the time and keep the game flowing. You can always look up those things after the session to see if you did it right or what you should have done. It does make sense though to at least take a little time the first few times you play to familiarize yourself with the most commonly used mechanics, such as CMB/CMD etc. That way you make sure to get it right the first time. Once you've looked it up once or twice you should start to remember how it goes.
This... awesome advice (and the previous idea it supports).
Spend a few session not looking up anything. It's amazing how well the game flows. Look up questionable calls after the fact. Similarly, if your GM makes a questionable call don't argue about it, let it fly and bring it up politely later.
Honest to goodness, there's a "D&D for Dummies" book. True to that line of books, it breaks the game down pretty well. Of course, it won't be Pathfinder specific, but it'll cover 85% of it (if there truly is backward compatibility).