What's 1 Book With The Most Sorcerer / Wizard Spells In It ?


Homebrew and House Rules


Hello all,
I was wanting to know, if there was just ONE 3.5 book with a lot of spells (Sorcerer/Wizard spells) in it that you could use for Pathfinder game which one would it be?

Our GM gave us the green light that it would be okay to use it.

Sczarni

Spell Compendium

Dark Archive RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Frerezar wrote:
Spell Compendium

Yup. Absolutely.


Fatespinner wrote:
Frerezar wrote:
Spell Compendium
Yup. Absolutely.

Thanks guys, now to track one down.


Please be aware that the spell compendium has some seriously broken spells in it. If you want to stay friends with your GM, steer away from the stuff that is "OMG OVERPOWERED" and keep your GM in the loop the whole time.

I speak from experience.


The wise old owl speaks truth.


(cough) orbs (cough)

(They aren't the worst contenders, mind you)


Sean FitzSimon wrote:

Please be aware that the spell compendium has some seriously broken spells in it. If you want to stay friends with your GM, steer away from the stuff that is "OMG OVERPOWERED" and keep your GM in the loop the whole time.

I speak from experience.

I read up on it, a bunch of people say that it has a lot of flaws in it.


William Timmins wrote:

(cough) orbs (cough)

(They aren't the worst contenders, mind you)

What's orbs?

A spell in the spell compendium? or another book?


Orbs appeared first in Complete Arcane, I think, and dealt a death-blow to the already faltering evocation school.

Orbs are essentially highly souped up acid splash/melf's acid arrows, but with more energy types (orb of acid, orb of cold, etc.)

Orbs are Conj (creation) spells, ranged touch, no save, no SR.
4th level spells, 1d6 per CL, plus an additional effect if fail a Fort save (blinding, etc.)

Mind you, evocation has area attacks, but if you're struggling to get through SR and just want to slam single targets, orbs rock. (too much, IMO)

Lesser orb spells are weaker and more reasonable.


William Timmins wrote:

Orbs appeared first in Complete Arcane, I think, and dealt a death-blow to the already faltering evocation school.

Orbs are essentially highly souped up acid splash/melf's acid arrows, but with more energy types (orb of acid, orb of cold, etc.)

Orbs are Conj (creation) spells, ranged touch, no save, no SR.
4th level spells, 1d6 per CL, plus an additional effect if fail a Fort save (blinding, etc.)

Mind you, evocation has area attacks, but if you're struggling to get through SR and just want to slam single targets, orbs rock. (too much, IMO)

Lesser orb spells are weaker and more reasonable.

Okay, one of the spells in the spell compendium.

Thanks for explaining that. :o)

Dark Archive

I love the selection of spells included in the Complete Book of Eldritch Might (Malhavoc Press).
Also, good sources of flavorful spells for arcane casters are Relics and Rituals I and II, sourcebooks of magic lore for the Scarred Lands Campaign Setting (Sword and Sorcery Studios).

I don't know the actual availability of these products, but I think that a search on Ebay should come up with some results.


What other spells would you guys rate O.P. in the Spell Compendium?

Grand Lodge

Wraithstrike, Radiant Assault, Vortex of Teeth, Evards Menacing Tentacles, the Bite of the Werebeast line, Rhino's Rush and Lion's Charge. Did I mention Wraithstrike?


And bolt of glory. 1d12 per level, max 25d12 (IIRC), for a general-use cleric spell? Why cast any other damage spell, ever?

Liberty's Edge

Here we go, the old "Spell Compendium is/isn't overpowered, gm's do/do not know how to use it, orbs do/do not break stuff" debate.

Yay.

It's worse than watching "Little House on the Prairie" reruns...

:)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ray of Stupidity, Bolt of Glory (the old d6 version is fine), Orbs, Wraithstrike, Wraithstrike, Wraithstrike.


So the magic missile spells

and the force claw and that are all good?

Medium orbs are bad, right?

Lessers okay?

Vortex of Teeth eh... >< Darn, Think I liked that.

Okay, removing it from spell lists.


Three potential fixes for the orbs, in order of my preference:
Drop damage to same as lesser orbs, but higher caps (15d6>7d8)
Move orbs to evocation school
Drop side-effects of orbs

Distant possibility: only allow acid, since that's the only 'precedent' for conjuration no-save/no-SR attacks in core.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Did I mention Ray of Stupidity ? So I will say it again: Ray of Stupidity.

GM: An Advanced Elite Dire Fiendish Winged Flame-breathing Ninja T-Rex charges you ! It's the final fight of the adventure, roll initiative and do your best to win !
*Braveheart music*
Player: OK, I cast Ray of Stupidity.
*Exit stage left*


What about making the elemental Orbs Evocation

Keeping the Acid Conjuration, along with Sound?

Then doing the damage fix.


Gorbacz wrote:

Did I mention Ray of Stupidity ? So I will say it again: Ray of Stupidity.

GM: An Advanced Elite Dire Fiendish Winged Flame-breathing Ninja T-Rex charges you ! It's the final fight of the adventure, roll initiative and do your best to win !
*Braveheart music*
Player: OK, I cast Ray of Stupidity.
*Exit stage left*

For what it's worth, that thing would have spell resistance (and hopefully enough hit dice to give it a solid shot of shrugging the spell off) and given it's class levels and templates I would hope it's intelligence would be at least 8ish, and as such have a fair chance of handling one successful ray of stupidity and hopefully chomping the caster (of course, casters have so many other options it's rediculous, ray of stupidity is an easy button for that encounter but there are dozens of others)

@ Kirth Bolt of glory (I just looked it up) is pretty situational in terms of it's damage. Against undead and evil outsiders it's 1d12 per level, but against anything else it effects (only neutral outsiders fyi) was 1d12/two levels. Also, it caps at 15 casterlevel, just like other spells.

Lets put this in perspective:

Cone of Cold (6th level domain spell) caster level 15: 15d6 (average 48) to everything in a 60 foot cone, subject to cold resistance/immunity.

Bolt of Glory (6th level cleric spell) caster level 15: 15d12 (average 96) vs one opponent of a small subset (Undead, Evil outsiders), 7d12 (average 48) to any other single target that is not a Good Outsider, which are immune.

Want to know the truth? Unless your going into a specific evil outsider/undead adventure *cough*Ravenloft*cough* Cone of Cold is often going to be better, and it's widely regarded as a crappy spell (for the 5th level slot wizards cast it at, not even considering the 6th level domain point)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
kyrt-ryder wrote:


For what it's worth, that thing would have spell resistance (and hopefully enough hit dice to give it a solid shot of shrugging the spell off) and given it's class levels and templates I would hope it's intelligence would be at least 8ish, and as such have a fair chance of handling one successful ray of stupidity and hopefully chomping the caster (of course, casters have so many other options it's rediculous, ray of stupidity is an easy button for that encounter but there are dozens of others)

It's not as much the spell effect itself as much as example of designer short-sightedness and editor blindness. Why this spell isn't an Int-penalty version of Ray of Enfeeblement is beyond me. What is cleaer, however, is that the editing standard of the SpC is sloppy and every spell must be read twice to make sure that it's not a trap.

And I really do hate RPG books which I have to tread like an unexploded landmine ...


Wait... we could take Ray of Enfeeblement, replace str with int, and it'd be a balanced Ray of Stupidity?


Gorbacz wrote:
kyrt-ryder wrote:


For what it's worth, that thing would have spell resistance (and hopefully enough hit dice to give it a solid shot of shrugging the spell off) and given it's class levels and templates I would hope it's intelligence would be at least 8ish, and as such have a fair chance of handling one successful ray of stupidity and hopefully chomping the caster (of course, casters have so many other options it's rediculous, ray of stupidity is an easy button for that encounter but there are dozens of others)

It's not as much the spell effect itself as much as example of designer short-sightedness and editor blindness. Why this spell isn't an Int-penalty version of Ray of Enfeeblement is beyond me. What is cleaer, however, is that the editing standard of the SpC is sloppy and every spell must be read twice to make sure that it's not a trap.

And I really do hate RPG books which I have to tread like an unexploded landmine ...

For what it's worth, I like the spell, I let my players use it and use it against them freely.


kyrt-ryder wrote:
Bolt of glory (I just looked it up) is pretty situational in terms of it's damage. Against undead and evil outsiders it's 1d12 per level

I saw it come into play in Savage Tide, which by the time it was in general use was nothing but wall-to-wall evil outsiders. Enough said.


What if Bolt of glory, from what I hear is a 1d6, and 1d12 vs undead and evil outsiders.

What if we changed it to

1d6 normal, which you guys said was good, and then 1d8 vs undead and evil outsiders?


God, I didn't mean to start all this. My only point was that you shouldn't simply use the book all willy-nilly. I would approach my DM before the sessions began with the spells I wanted to use. He would either say "yes," make a minor change (spell level, SR, save, school), or deny it outright.

When it comes to the Spell Compendium, few spells within it are outright broken, through and through. Many (MANY) can be exploited with certain builds (wraithstrike) but are otherwise fine. Similarly, some spells are horribly overpowered in certain situations, yet really fair in others. I simply suggest that you approach your DM with the spells so s/he can identify if it's something that's going to be overpowered with your build/campaign.


What if I am the DM.

lmfao.


Frerezar wrote:
Spell Compendium

Just wanted to say thank you for recommending the Spell Compendium.

After reading a couple of old reviews on it and them saying how many books the spells in it where taken from, I figured that buying it would be a lot cheaper than buying all those books let alone trying to find them. :-/
Bought one, never used in mint condition for $35.00, should see it sometime early next week. :o)


It's a fun book, you'll like.


William Timmins wrote:

Orbs appeared first in Complete Arcane, I think, and dealt a death-blow to the already faltering evocation school.

Orbs are essentially highly souped up acid splash/melf's acid arrows, but with more energy types (orb of acid, orb of cold, etc.)

Orbs are Conj (creation) spells, ranged touch, no save, no SR.
4th level spells, 1d6 per CL, plus an additional effect if fail a Fort save (blinding, etc.)

Mind you, evocation has area attacks, but if you're struggling to get through SR and just want to slam single targets, orbs rock. (too much, IMO)

Lesser orb spells are weaker and more reasonable.

Oh, deus! The Orbs are back. The new ones are much more reasonable compared to their progenitors:

I'm showing my gamer age a little bit, but in 1st and 2nd Ed. there was a spell called 'Chromatic Orb' This little doozy was a first level spell for Illusionists (in 1E Unearthed Arcana) or 2nd Ed. Wizards, etc. (from Complete Wizard's Handbook) that had varying effects based upon the level of the caster. At 12th level (1E) or 9th level (2E), it caused death (or if you made the save, paralysis for a few rounds, which is like death in a heavy, fast campaign).

Aside from a shorter range and a 'ranged touch attack' (with bonuses!), this was a first level spell with effects that matched fifth or higher level spells.

And if any of my old campaigners are out there, yes, a magic missile can cause death without a save or hit roll (dealing up to 25 points of damage from a similar level caster). But this is still way overpowered for a first level spell--remember that saves weren't affected by spell level...

Some of the other effects? (from 2E Complete Wizard's)
Caster Level\Effect
5\Stinking Cloud
8\Petrification (i.e. it turns them to stone!) or slow if they make the save. Flesh to stone was a touch attack, if I recall correctly AND a 6th level spell (i.e. caster level around 14!)
4\Blindness

Yeesh. From a first level spell. If you were high enough level you could choose the effect! Yes, you could cast stinking cloud at 5th level, but not as many times as you could cast The multi-purpose, good for what ails you no matter what it is Chromatic Orb! To be fair it had a hefty material component (but who paid attention to those?) of a 50 gp gem.

Grrr. Old grudges run deep. Thanks for indulging this grumbling old wolf. :)


Oh, dear God. I hate the new Orb spells. They were vastly overpowered compared to other Conjuration/Evocation spells and basically told the Evoker to shut up, sit down and watch a proper energy master at work. It was no surprise whatsoever that our resident munchkin took them at every opportunity.


It always seemed to me that the orb spells were about right, power-wise, given the weakness of direct-damage in 3.5 as compared to earlier editions; I just very strongly feel they should be Evocation rather than Conjuration.


Arakhor wrote:
Oh, dear God. I hate the new Orb spells. They were vastly overpowered compared to other Conjuration/Evocation spells and basically told the Evoker to shut up, sit down and watch a proper energy master at work. It was no surprise whatsoever that our resident munchkin took them at every opportunity.

Ok, that is it. I'm going to make a new thread asap disproving that statement right there so those of us who understand it can just link the damn thing instead of getting into repeated arguments.

(As a brief comment, it's not that the orbs are overpowered, it's that the bulk of evocation is vastly underpowered.)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:
Ray of Stupidity, Bolt of Glory (the old d6 version is fine), Orbs, Wraithstrike, Wraithstrike, Wraithstrike.

wraithstrike is Beetlejuice?


kyrt-ryder wrote:

Ok, that is it. I'm going to make a new thread asap disproving that statement right there so those of us who understand it can just link the damn thing instead of getting into repeated arguments.

(As a brief comment, it's not that the orbs are overpowered, it's that the bulk of evocation is vastly underpowered.)

It's nice of you to waste all that time disproving my opinion, but you just said the bulk of evocation spells are underpowered. I fail to see the issue when you (at least partially) agree with me.


Carpe Diem, after the Spell Compendium, I recommend Complete Mage and Players Handbook II. They both have some really flavorable and interesting stuff. Dragon Magic has good stuff too.

Of course, all three books have spells that many consider overpowered, underpowered or gamebreaking... but you've got to make that decision yourself. Personally, I think they all make sense and work just fine. Yes, some stuff is more powerful than the spells in the Players Handbook (Pathfinder, now), but so are some spells weaker.

(Besides, my players have always understood that if I allow it in game for them I allow it in game for my NPC's [insert evil grin here].)

As for Spell Compendium, I personally feel that, while yes, some spells are very powerful, they are not overpowered. (Except mabye Vortex of Teeth... and mabye Night's Caress... and mabye Belker Claws... and mabye Ruin Delver's Fortune...) In the end, the SC is merely a resource to be used as needed or desired by gamers. Pick and choose what you like, eliminate or nerf what you don't, and leave other gaming groups alone. Everyone's game is different.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Though a 3.0 book, I still like the original Relics and Rituals from White Wolf.


SirUrza wrote:
Though a 3.0 book, I still like the original Relics and Rituals from White Wolf.

I'm fond of that one as well.


I like the Relics & Rituals book too (mostly for the rituals), but it does unfortunately have a long list of items with not a single GP value between them and thus have never been awarded in treasure before.


Okay, another question, what's the lowdown on the
"Complete Mage" &
"Complete Arcane"

I was informed that both books are good, but as a lot of you know what one group of people say is treasure others say is garbage.

Since the "Spell Compendium" is made up of a few other books, makes sense to grab that one, but can anyone give me a heads up as to what's in these other two books that are worth getting. Classes, feats, magic items I don't care about, the thing I'm looking for are spells.

Thanks,


I know you say you don't care about feats, buuuut...

Complete Mage has Reserve Feats. The mechanic is: hold on to a spell of a given type, and you get a supernatural ability to do something.

For example, the fire one, I think, lets you make a fire attack doing 1d6 damage per spell level of your highest prepared/available fire spell. There are some other effects, too.

This might not sound like a lot (about half caster level, generally), but it's 'at will' so long as you have the spell in reserve and the effect ignores SR (it's not a spell, after all).

I mention it because it's essentially adding 'magic I can do' rather than being just a feat.


William Timmins wrote:

I know you say you don't care about feats, buuuut...

Complete Mage has Reserve Feats. The mechanic is: hold on to a spell of a given type, and you get a supernatural ability to do something.

For example, the fire one, I think, lets you make a fire attack doing 1d6 damage per spell level of your highest prepared/available fire spell. There are some other effects, too.

This might not sound like a lot (about half caster level, generally), but it's 'at will' so long as you have the spell in reserve and the effect ignores SR (it's not a spell, after all).

I mention it because it's essentially adding 'magic I can do' rather than being just a feat.

In the game/campaign I'm in, the DM/GM just uses Pathfinder books, the only thing that "he" will allow is 3.5 spells from other books, meaning that no to other classes, feats and magic items. Of course I'll not be trying to bring in the mini nuke spell, but playing in a 3.5 based game and a sorcerer for the 1st time, the thing I'm looking for is spell selection. Plus I've always like playing caster classes in 1st and 2nd ed. I know it will continue in pathfinder.


I'm confused. How is vortex of teeth overpowered? It does a walloping 3d8 damage per round. As a 4th level spell. With no additional side-effects whatsoever. In a radius small enough that even a dwarf can cross it in a single turn if he wants to.

I'm similarly confused about how radiant assault is overpowered. It's a 7th level AOE spell that does significantly less damage than delayed blast fireball (albeit untyped damage), hits Will instead of Reflex, and has a side-effect. That actually sounds balanced to me, considering that I have never seen anyone take delayed blast fireball in 3rd edition.


Carpe Diem wrote:

Okay, another question, what's the lowdown on the

"Complete Mage" &
"Complete Arcane"

I was informed that both books are good, but as a lot of you know what one group of people say is treasure others say is garbage.

Since the "Spell Compendium" is made up of a few other books, makes sense to grab that one, but can anyone give me a heads up as to what's in these other two books that are worth getting. Classes, feats, magic items I don't care about, the thing I'm looking for are spells.

Thanks,

Complete Arcane spells are included in Spell Compendium.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

For all the complaining about Wraithstrike, my PCs kinda declared it the spell that shall not be cast after I gave it to Dragotha at the end of Age of Worms. Dracoliches are fun. >:)


Zurai wrote:
I'm similarly confused about how radiant assault is overpowered. It's a 7th level AOE spell that does significantly less damage than delayed blast fireball (albeit untyped damage), hits Will instead of Reflex, and has a side-effect. That actually sounds balanced to me, considering that I have never seen anyone take delayed blast fireball in 3rd edition.

It's a large area, multiple round dazing spell that just happens to do some "typeless" damage as a side effect.

Whether your DM thinks it's overpowered is directly proportional to how much your DM likes to throw hordes of monsters at you. I know my DM hated it when I used it...


For the hundreds of spells in the book there are maybe a handfull that are probably overpowered. Not a bad ratio in my mind. I still cannot fathom the 'omg orbs are OP' crowd. They are damage spells....they are by definition less powerful then the ones that just win the fight. Apparently the ability to bypass spell resistance is the greatest thing since indexed spellbooks. After years using the spell compendium, i have only seen an orb spell actually preped like 4 or 5 times.

I have used ray of stupidity to unreasonable effect far many more times. A split ray or stupidity is just special kinds of unreasonable. Who doesnt want to oneshot half the monster manual with a 4th level spell slot? "Oh no untouchable tank half orc black guard is smiting us down to the 9th circle...." Do a A, do some damage to him with an orb spell, or B split a ray of stupidity and stand a good chance of droping him in a single shot. (and almost certainly droping him in the next round with a normal ray of stupidity in the following round).

My group much prefers the delicious teleportation spells and battlefield control spells. Greater slide 'the barbarian isnt close enough to charge...oh wait, yes he is', Baleful transposition 'We cant get to the big bad behind his scary bruiser minions...oops he's now standing next to the party fighter and the barbarian is behind the minions, sweet'.


Robert Young wrote:
Complete Arcane spells are included in Spell Compendium.

Thanks Robert for info, lucked-out and found both books (complete mage & arcane) for $10.00 each so I grabbed them.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Homebrew and House Rules / What's 1 Book With The Most Sorcerer / Wizard Spells In It ? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Homebrew and House Rules