Doctor Who: Series 5

[Chris Mortika]

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

This could be ripples from the Water of Mars thing.

Oh, wouldn't that be nice? It's about as likely as Rory being a deep-cover agent of the malevolent Black Guardian, but it would be a nice reference to what should have been the emotional tipping point of the entire series.

[Samnell]

Werthead wrote:

It was settled a while ago. When he met Sarah-Jane they referenced several of their previous adventures, and in the Season 4 finale Sarah-Jane and Davros recognised one another from their previous meeting in the 1975 serial GENESIS OF THE DALEKS. We also saw images of all 10 (at that point) Doctors in the 'Human Nature' two-parter which did settle the question for good. Plus Steven Moffat asked for this season to be officially called Season 31 to emphasise the connection, but the BBC decided against it.

All the way back in Dalek the Doctor held up an inert Cyberman head in the rich guy's collection and declared it one of his old enemies. The production crew has been extremely blunt, since 2005 even, about the old series and the new being in the same continuity and featuring the same Time Lord.

But fandumb never dies. If facts were enough, it wouldn't be fandumb.

[seekerofshadowlight]

Chris Mortika wrote:

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

This could be ripples from the Water of Mars thing.

Oh, wouldn't that be nice? It's about as likely as Rory being a deep-cover agent of the malevolent Black Guardian, but it would be a nice reference to what should have been the emotional tipping point of the entire series.

I totally agree, it seems to me they have wasted so much potential this season.I hate saying that but I feel it's true.

[LazarX]

DM Wellard wrote:

Yes I figured it out about 5 minutes into the episode after all one of the main thrusts of this season has been how the Doctor is one of the most feared beings in ..anything

If anyone should fear the Doctor, it should be his Companions, when it comes to fatalaties, or other Fates Worse Than Death, these new Doctors are racking up quite a body count.

[LazarX]

Nevynxxx wrote:

You don't bother. when they remember to return it, they do so on time, even if they've had it for 3oo years.

It might not always be on time.

"I'll be back in 5 minutes.. FIVE MINUTES!"

-The Doctor's promise to young Amelia Pond.

[Kthulhu]

First off....brilliant finale.

LazarX wrote:

If anyone should fear the Doctor, it should be his Companions, when it comes to fatalaties, or other Fates Worse Than Death, these new Doctors are racking up quite a body count.

Hmmm...let's run down the checklist:

Rose: Still alive, give a parallel reality where she's actually important, and give a human clone of the Doctor. Life improved from meeting the Doctor.

Mickey: Still alive, managed to shunt his horrid ex into a parallel reality, and hooked up with a gorgeous and intelligent woman. Life improved from meeting the Doctor.

Jack Harkness: Can NOT die. OK, technically died, but got better, and gained an immunity to death. Full of angst over it, but not so much angst that an attractive lifeform of pretty much any variety doesn't fix. Can't really compare since we know so little of his previous life, but he's not got a bad deal now.

Martha: Still alive, she's the gorgeous and intelligent woman mentioned above. Had a good life before the Doctor, but seems to enjoy her post-Doctor life as well.

Astrid: Dead.

Donna: Still alive. Unfortunately, all her character development got wiped. Still, no worse off than before she met the Doctor.

Jackson Lake: Still alive. Regained his memories and his son. Plus, he has an airship now. Check the win box.

Lady Christiana: Still alive. Well, she didn't get to keep the gold cup, but she's not in prison, and has a flying bus. One more for the win column.

Adelaide: Dead. But by her own hand, to save the time-stream.

Wilf: Still alive. Sad that Donna lost what she had with the Doctor, but still fighting the good fight.

Spoiler:

Amy: Still alive. OK, technically died, but got better. Gained a family in the process as well. Just got hitched to a guy she deeply loves. Win.

Rory: Still alive. OK, technically died, got replaced by an Auton, then came back as a full human when the universe was rebooted. Just got married to his dream girl.

nuWho hasn't even come close to classic Who in terms of companion deaths. If anything, we're overdue for a real companion death. One that isn't someone who dies in their first story, but travels around with the Doctor for a fair bit before kicking it.

[Loztastic]

Kthulhu wrote:

Jack Harkness: Can NOT die. OK, technically died, but got better, and gained an immunity to death. Full of angst over it, but not so much angst that an attractive lifeform of pretty much any variety doesn't fix. Can't really compare since we know so little of his previous life, but he's not got a bad deal now.

and he gets to bump ugly's with Russel Tovey (The Midshipman)

double win!

[Charles Evans 25]

That series finale was definitely long overdue. They should have done something like that in Doctor Who years ago...
I assume River Song may be featuring more prominently in future (or should that be past? :D) series...

[Nevynxxx]

Kthulhu wrote:

Jack Harkness: Can NOT die. OK, technically died, but got better, and gained an immunity to death. Full of angst over it, but not so much angst that an attractive lifeform of pretty much any variety doesn't fix. Can't really compare since we know so little of his previous life, but he's not got a bad deal now

Minor correction...

Can NOT die. OK, technically died, but got better, and gained an immunity to death. Full of angst over it, but not so much angst that an attractive lifeform of pretty much any variety doesn't fix. Can't really compare since we know so little of his previous life, but he's not got a bad deal now, lives for approximately 5 billion years, losing his body, but convincing the universe he's the last of his race, and eventually giving out of his own free will after giving the Dr a fateful message.

Or do you not think Jack is the face of boe?

Awesome finale. Amazing, and brilliant.

Spoiler:

Love that we haven't seen the Dr's time line properly, and we've seen bits of him from this episode in some of the previous ones. Love the "Something old, something new...." bit, made me giggle as I got it, just when the Tardis sound kick in.

I am now, more convinced than ever that River Song, is the Dr.

But, errmmm, Chistmas? Don't we usually get a 10 min special before that?

[seekerofshadowlight]

Not much to say to that but I really liked this last one.

[Charles Evans 25]

Nevynxxx wrote:

Kthulhu wrote:

Jack Harkness: Can NOT die. OK, technically died, but got better, and gained an immunity to death. Full of angst over it, but not so much angst that an attractive lifeform of pretty much any variety doesn't fix. Can't really compare since we know so little of his previous life, but he's not got a bad deal now

Minor correction...

Can NOT die. OK, technically died, but got better, and gained an immunity to death. Full of angst over it, but not so much angst that an attractive lifeform of pretty much any variety doesn't fix. Can't really compare since we know so little of his previous life, but he's not got a bad deal now, lives for approximately 5 billion years, losing his body, but convincing the universe he's the last of his race, and eventually giving out of his own free will after giving the Dr a fateful message.

Or do you not think Jack is the face of boe?

Awesome finale. Amazing, and brilliant.

** spoiler omitted **

With regard to River Song in episode 13:

Spoiler:

Interesting to see a dalek plead for mercy, but I think that that demonstrates that whatever River Song is, she's not The Doctor. Daleks haven't ever begged for mercy from The Doctor as far as I know - tried to kill him on plenty of occasions, and occasionally imprisoned, etc, him. Whatever the dalek in the museum had in its database about River Song seemed to indicate that she's got a nasty side she lets out occasionally - a very nasty side. Now she could be another timelord, perhaps, although I'm not sure if that would square with how she met her end in the library, or why she couldn't fix the Doctor's TARDIS when it was misbehaving and doesn't have a TARDIS of her own but relies on gadgets like vortex manipulators instead?

[Andrew Betts]

Nevynxxx wrote:

Or do you not think Jack is the face of boe?

Well the one thing that can be said is whether we think so or not it was confirmed at some ComiCon panel that Jack is indeed the Face of Boe by both RTD and John Barrowman.

[Andrew Betts]

Ok just finished it and nearly got slapped

Spoiler:

I volunteered to take the Doctor's place for the "You may now kiss the ..." part.

Spoiler:

spoilers

[DM Wellard]

Great Series Finale.

Spoiler:

Loved the tie in with the wedding and the guest's reaction to Amy's speech and the Doctors reappearance was hilarious(Oh it's the Doctor..how could we forget about the Doctor proving that he is in fact generally known to exist after all the goings on during 10's tenure..although that leaves a big hole in the Donna plotline).The Doctor has never had a married couple as companions so that should make for a new twist especially as Amy is still lusting after the Doctor whilst being in love with Rory.Still wondering how River knew to give Amy her diary though..no doubt all will be revealed and I like the fact that she's ruthless enough to make Daleks fear her

[Nevynxxx]

Charles Evans 25 wrote:

With regard to River Song in episode 13:

I'd have to watch it again, to remember what it was that made me so certain. I will no doubt be proved wrong (about every other prediction I've made has been), but I am quite sure.

[flash_cxxi]

OK... just finished watching it.

I liked it, especially all the jumping around the Doctor did.

I can't believe I have to wait 6 months to get the next Who fix!!! :(

[Nevynxxx]

flash_cxxi wrote:

especially all the jumping around the Doctor did.

Spoiler:

I particularly like, "tell yourself to tell them you're dead when you're not, to get them out of the way, thereby giving you time to do your stuff, and keeep the dalek occupied, and get them all fired up angry at the same time so they don't daudle. Brilliant.

[CunningMongoose]

"I don't want her to join one of those crazy star cults, I don't trust this Richard Dawkins guy" - Amy's mother

[Robert Little]

CunningMongoose wrote:

"I don't want her to join one of those crazy star cults, I don't trust this Richard Dawkins guy" - Amy's mother

Yeah, I caught that. I lol'd.

[ArchLich]

Robert Little wrote:

CunningMongoose wrote:

"I don't want her to join one of those crazy star cults, I don't trust this Richard Dawkins guy" - Amy's mother

Yeah, I caught that. I lol'd.

+1 I though it was a nice little easter egg.

[Kthulhu]

As for Richard Dawkins, he's got links to Doctor Who going way back. He was good friends with Douglas Adams, who wrote for the show during the 4th Doctor's tenure. At a party thrown by Adams, he met Tom Baker's ex-wife, Lalla Ward (also known as Romana II). They hit it off, and they're still married to this day.

[Kthulhu]

Andrew Betts wrote:

Well the one thing that can be said is whether we think so or not it was confirmed at some ComiCon panel that Jack is indeed the Face of Boe by both RTD and John Barrowman.

Well, if RTD wanted it to be cannon, he should have made it definitive while he was still working on the program. As it stands, it's a nothing more than a coincidence until proven to be more than that. Canon is defined by the TV show, or at the very least other semi-official sources like the Big Finish audio programs. Not by what a guy who used to work for the program happens to say at a convention.

[Andrew Betts]

Kthulhu wrote:

Andrew Betts wrote:

Well the one thing that can be said is whether we think so or not it was confirmed at some ComiCon panel that Jack is indeed the Face of Boe by both RTD and John Barrowman.

Well, if RTD wanted it to be cannon, he should have made it definitive while he was still working on the program. As it stands, it's a nothing more than a coincidence until proven to be more than that. Canon is defined by the TV show, or at the very least other semi-official sources like the Big Finish audio programs. Not by what a guy who used to work for the program happens to say at a convention.

How's about Torchwood Declassified?

"Similarly, the Torchwood Declassified featurette from Torchwood Series 2 has John Barrowman, David Tennant and Russell T Davies explicitly stating that the Face of Boe is Jack Harkness."

About as close to semi-official as I can pull

[Vigil]

"What's that?"

"It's a fez. I wear a fez now. Fezzes are cool."

ZAP!

[Kthulhu]

Andrew Betts wrote:

How's about Torchwood Declassified?

"Similarly, the Torchwood Declassified featurette from Torchwood Series 2 has John Barrowman, David Tennant and Russell T Davies explicitly stating that the Face of Boe is Jack Harkness."

About as close to semi-official as I can pull

For it to be true canon, it needs to be confirmed in an actual storyline. Again, not just former employees of the show saying stuff on a behind-the-scenes bonus for a spinoff show.

[Nevynxxx]

Kthulhu wrote:

Well, if RTD wanted it to be cannon, he should have made it definitive while he was still working on the program. As it stands, it's a nothing more than a coincidence until proven to be more than that. Canon is defined by the TV show, or at the very least other semi-official sources like the Big Finish audio programs. Not by what a guy who used to work for the program happens to say at a convention.

So the part where Jack is telling Martha and the Dr about how he got into the time agency, and was called "The Face of Boe" because he was the first from the Boe Peninsular to get in, still only counts as coincidence for you? Okey doke then.... ;)

[Kthulhu]

Nevynxxx wrote:

So the part where Jack is telling Martha and the Dr about how he got into the time agency, and was called "The Face of Boe" because he was the first from the Boe Peninsular to get in, still only counts as coincidence for you? Okey doke then.... ;)

So you think Rose somehow got back into the Doctor's reality, turned into a black woman, and met up with a guy who thought he was the Doctor, all after loosing her own memory as well? Okay...

[seekerofshadowlight]

Jake did say he was called the face of boe, ya might not like it but there it is.

[deinol]

Kthulhu wrote:

So you think Rose somehow got back into the Doctor's reality, turned into a black woman, and met up with a guy who thought he was the Doctor, all after loosing her own memory as well? Okay...

I'm not sure what you are talking about here. Maybe you should re-watch the end of Season 3.

[deinol]

Wild speculation about River Song:

Spoiler:

I have this crazy idea that she'll turn out to be Romana. I know there are probably a dozen reasons why it can't work, but she did learn how to drive the Tardis back in the day. Mostly, I just want Romana to come back. ;)

[Kthulhu]

deinol wrote:

Kthulhu wrote:

So you think Rose somehow got back into the Doctor's reality, turned into a black woman, and met up with a guy who thought he was the Doctor, all after loosing her own memory as well? Okay...

I'm not sure what you are talking about here. Maybe you should re-watch the end of Season 3.

Talking about Jackson Lake's companion Rosita. Can't just be a coincidence that she has that name, can it?

[seekerofshadowlight]

Your being a bit silly now, it is kinda clear Jake is meant to be the Face of Boe. It they even changed the faces last words to "good bye old friend" on the DVD if I recall

[Andrew Betts]

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

Your being a bit silly now, it is kinda clear Jake is meant to be the Face of Boe. It they even changed the faces last words to "good bye old friend" on the DVD if I recall

seeker ... I know you have spelling problems ;-) but I just have to say ... its JACK ... not Jake.

We now return you to what should be a very constructive conversation.

[JoelF847]

Did I miss something or shouldn't

Spoiler:

Rory still be dead? Since he died before being sucked up by a time crack, when big bang 2 fixed all of the time crack stuff, wouldn't that only undo people/things that were sucked into the time cracks? And therfore shouldn't Rory just be dead, but remembered?

[Matthew Morris]

JoelF847 wrote:

Did I miss something or shouldn't

** spoiler omitted **

The Doctor cheats.

[Xuttah]

Matthew Morris wrote:

JoelF847 wrote:

Did I miss something or shouldn't

** spoiler omitted **

The Doctor cheats.

Also, his fez should have been rebooted. Fezzes are cool!

[Nevynxxx]

Xuttah wrote:

Also, his fez should have been rebooted. Fezzes are cool!

Offtopic:

I made and wore a Fez the other week, just to use that line. Well, and to portray the Character of "Moostapha M'Stash" in a bad murder mystery.

That said, I did like how on confidential, they mentioned the only reason they got away with putting the Fez in, was by immediately destroying it. As they knew Matt would never take it off otherwise.

[Kerney]

deinol wrote:

Wild speculation about River Song:

** spoiler omitted **

I thought

Spoiler:

Romana was was the woman in The End of Time who had the conversation where she called Wilfred 'Old Solider'.

JoelF847 wrote:

Did I miss something or shouldn't

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

I thought he wasn't quite completely dead when he vanished.

BTW, I've read of an episode not for next season but the season afterward

Spoiler:

involving Sylvester Mccoy in some fashion

and have not been able to find confirmation one way or another.

All the Best,

Kerney

[Matthew Morris]

Kerney wrote:

deinol wrote:

Wild speculation about River Song:

** spoiler omitted **

I thought ** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

I thought RTDavies said it was meant to be the Doctor's mother. Though Romana would make sense. I'd assume though that she (and Leela) would have been um, removed, by Rassilon on his return since they'd not support him

Kerney wrote:

BTW, I've read of an episode not for next season but the season afterward ** spoiler omitted ** and have not been able to find confirmation one way or another.

All the Best,

Kerney

Oh gods I hope so. Though I'll admit, I'd like to know where some of the companions are almost as much, if not more.

Spoiler:

Ace and Tegan especially. Though Jo and Susan as well and please can we see Winifred, Ancelyn and Sgt. Benton (though they weren't companions)

[GM Wulfson]

Just an aside, has anyone watched the show Leverage? This last Sunday two of the main characters (Elliot and Hardison) walked into a police station and announced they were Detectives Moffat and Davies. Just one of several Dr. Who references that have been made on the show. I chuckle every time I catch one of them.

[Andrew Betts]

GM Wulfson wrote:

Just an aside, has anyone watched the show Leverage? This last Sunday two of the main characters (Elliot and Hardison) walked into a police station and announced they were Detectives Moffat and Davies. Just one of several Dr. Who references that have been made on the show. I chuckle every time I catch one of them.

I definitely caught it, although I think my favorite Doctor Who reference was Tom and Sarah Jane Baker in the first season.