Who else is confused by the combat system?

[Yucale]

Hello, everyone. This is my first post on these messageboards. I'm not complaining about the combat system, I am simply confused by it. Admittedly, I only started playing Pathfinder recently. If anyone could explain it simply, I would appreciate it.

[SirUrza]

I guess you've never played Dungeons & dragons huh? Ok it's simple.

I'm a fighter, I have a base attack bonus (BAB).

There's a goblin, KILL IT!

It's 20 ft away, I can move 20ft because I'm wearing plate armor. So I move and can make 1 attack.

I roll a D20. I get a 10.

I add my BAB to the 10. I'm level 1, according to the rulebook, fighters at level 1 have a +1 BAB. So that's 11. But wait, I'm using a sword, I get to add my strength bonus. My strength is 16, so my bonus is +2. So that means it's 13.

Ok, the goblin's armor class (AC) is 12.

Ooooh! 13 is bigger then 12. I hit it!

I roll damage. My sword does D8, so I roll a D8, get a 6, and add my strength bonus, 8 damage. Goblin only has 5 hitpoints, goblin dies.

Keep in mind all the numbers above are made up, but that's how combat works. With the exception of a bunch of things, you can do 2 things during your turn (well not really, there are other things, but we won't worry about them.)

Standard Action
Move Action

There's a third thing, a Full action. Full actions use both your standard and move (so you can only do 1 thing in this case.) However, full actions are generally more powerful.

Standard Actions = Attack, Cast a Spell, other things.. see rules.
Move actions = Moving, drawing weapon, standing up... other things.
Full actions = Charging, Double move (moving twice in 1 round), making multiple attacks if you can (that's what BAB +6/+1 is.)

That's the basic breakdown. If you can understand all that, you can figure out the rest of the rules in the book. :)

[Treantmonk]

can you be more specific? Do you have roleplaying experience with other systems or is this your first time roleplaying?

[Yucale]

thanks. I have played it before, but that was when I was trying to understand 1E. And I have done a bit in Pathfinder, but as I didn't understand combat I used a much simpler combat system from a different rp. Well, it worked, and my friends really wanted me to DM for them. They know the game even less.

[Treantmonk]

Yucale wrote:

thanks. I have played it before, but that was when I was trying to understand 1E. And I have done a bit in Pathfinder, but as I didn't understand combat I used a much simpler combat system from a different rp. Well, it worked, and my friends really wanted me to DM for them. They know the game even less.

OK - 1E and Pathfinder combat (the basics) aren't all that different.

Str bonuses work the same, except in Pathfinder it's one bonus for To-Hit and Damage - and no 18/ strength scores.

However, in 1e, better AC's are lower, while in Pathfinder, the higher your AC the better. Instead of Thac0 you have a bonus to hit.

Attack, add your bonus to hit, and if the total is equal or higher than the AC of the target - you hit. Damage works the same way as in 1e - weapon damage+Str bonus+magic weapon bonus

Feats and additional attacks at higher levels increase complexity - and until you guys are used to it - I would completely ignore Combat Maneuvers.

HP works basically the same as 1e. Roll the die based on your class and add your Con modifier (except non-fighter classes are no longer restricted to +2 per level)

[SirUrza]

Yucale wrote:

thanks. I have played it before, but that was when I was trying to understand 1E. And I have done a bit in Pathfinder, but as I didn't understand combat I used a much simpler combat system from a different rp. Well, it worked, and my friends really wanted me to DM for them. They know the game even less.

Well I hope my simulated fight and the quick breakdown help some. Just ask if you have any other questions. :)

[Dimitrios]

Yucale wrote:

thanks. I have played it before, but that was when I was trying to understand 1E. And I have done a bit in Pathfinder, but as I didn't understand combat I used a much simpler combat system from a different rp. Well, it worked, and my friends really wanted me to DM for them. They know the game even less.

If anyone in your group wants to use a good basic book that explains all the 3.5 rules clearly that Pathfinder is based on, the Dungeons & Dragons For Dummies 2005 edition is a good resource to use.

[KaeYoss]

Yucale wrote:

thanks. I have played it before, but that was when I was trying to understand 1E. And I have done a bit in Pathfinder, but as I didn't understand combat I used a much simpler combat system from a different rp.

A quick run-down of how a combat resolves:

1: You determine who knew that combat was imminent. Sometimes, everyone knew that combat would break out (e.g. you spotted each other across a plain or battlefield or something). Sometimes, nobody knew (e.g. you walked around the corner and there the enemy is, as surprised about your presence as you are about his). In both cases, you can forget the next 2 steps and go over to 3.

But if some (but not all) participants knew about the impending fight, there's a surprise round.

Surprise rounds are usually the result of an ambush: Ambushers roll stealth and their victims perception. If not every victim notices the enemy, they have to set the surprise round out.

2: Those who aren't surprised roll initiative (usually d20 + dex, but there's some bonuses, like the +4 from the Improved Initiative feat).

3: Do the surprise round. Everybody who wasn't surprised gets a turn, from the highest initiative rolled to the lowest. Surprise rounds are a special case because you get only a standard action or a move action, but not both (which is the norm), and you cannot use a full-round action, either.

4: Roll initiative. If you had a surprise round, the unsurprised combatants keep that initiative result.

5: Start combat in earnest. Everybody gets to take turns, from the highest initiative result rolled to the lowest. If you're through, you just keep going, as the guy with the highest initiative gets to go again.

You don't re-roll initiative - so unless you do some special actions, the order in which people act remains the same.

If it's a character's or creature's turn, that creature will get a full round worth of actions, meaning either a full-round action or a standard action plus a move action (or two move actions). If you have free actions to make, you get them in addition (shouting out short sentences like "Val, attack that mage!" is a free action, for example). You can also make a single swift action if you have any ability that takes a swift action (a quickened spell takes a swift action, as does activating a monk's ki power abilities, or a paladin using lay on hands on herself).

And yes, that means even if you have 10 attacks (an extreme number, but theoretically possible), you do them all before the next guy gets to act at all.

6: The fight until only one side remains. Usually, that means that the other side is dead, dying, unconscious or otherwise subdued, but sometimes, it means the have turned their tail and fled valiantly into the night.

That's the basic run-down. There are many intricacies to battle, of course (like resolving initiative rolls that are the same, or attacks of opportunity, or when you are are actually really dead), but in basic, that is what happens.

It's probably best to ask more specific questions.

[KaeYoss]

Dimitrios wrote:

If anyone in your group wants to use a good basic book that explains all the 3.5 rules clearly that Pathfinder is based on, the Dungeons & Dragons For Dummies 2005 edition is a good resource to use.

Could be a dangerous book, as it was written for 3.5. Pathfinder isn't quite the same, and if the book spells out everything and gives detailed tips, it might tell you something that's just plain wrong in Pathfinder.