Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.
We have a barbarian in our party who became civilized and started taking monk levels so that he is currently a barbarian 3/monk 2. We are talking about converting to Pathfinder, but I know this is going to come up.
What is this character's base flurry progression? It seems to me, that with the rules written the way they are, he would only be able to flurry as if his BAB was +2 (since he only has 2 monk levels and nothing else seems to count). That can't be right, can it?
Welcome to another edition of "Big Can of Worms"
Today's contestant is a familiar one -- The multiclass Monk!
Let's give it up for the Multiclass Monk!
actually I think it is.. the FoB uses the monk level instead of the BAB...
Clarifying the question: Surely a barbarian 3/monk 2 flurry's at +3/+3 and not +0/+0, right?
Clarifying the question: Surely a barbarian 3/monk 2 flurry's at +3/+3 and not +0/+0, right?
+5/+5
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rules as written state that it is based on your monk level not his combined multiclass level so the character would only flurry at +0/+0
think of it this way - the character spends time learning barbarian skills not martial art skills so cant make use of the extra attack bonus but he could rage while making a flurry of blows I believe - someone can correct me if I am wrong
rules as written state that it is based on your monk level not his combined multiclass level so the character would only flurry at +0/+0
think of it this way - the character spends time learning barbarian skills not martial art skills so cant make use of the extra attack bonus but he could rage while making a flurry of blows I believe - someone can correct me if I am wrong
The flurry is based on the monk level to an extent but it is still an attack roll, and attack rolls go off of all your classes.
Edit: It would be +3/+3, but you still add in the BAB from any other class.
the RAW state "For the purpose of these
attacks, the monk’s base attack bonus is equal to his monk
level." bolding my doing - nothing here states or implies that it is your combined level only your monk level if it did it would state your class level or hit dieso it is +0/+0
They don't state that they combine because that is already a general rule. When something is an exception to the rule it is called out as such.
Example include feat descriptions, which tell you the rule you are now allowed to break.
The FoB and his normal attacks don't work the same.
Reason: In 3.5 FoB was nicknamed Flurry of Misses because even though the monk had many attacks his medium attack bonus did not allow for many of them to hit.
In order to fix that the designers decided to allow the monk to flurry with his full attack bonus.
That statement in no way ignores other classes. The monk's side of the equation(BAB wise) is equal to his monk level. If they did not want other classes to add their BAB to the equation the statement would read something like this:
When performing the FoB all other classes other than the monk's will be discounted. This is an exception to the rule where both class's BAB are used.
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Look in the conversion document, it tells you that flurry of blows uses your monk level plus any other BAB you get from other classes on your to hit rolls.
We had a looong discussion about this. Official Paizo word from the conversion text.
From the text:
"A monk’s base attack bonus when performing a flurry of
blows is now equal to his level. His attacks are made as if
using Two-Weapon Fighting (and its improvements at later
levels). Table 3–10 summarizes these bonuses. Change your
flurry of blows base bonuses to match these values (plus
any increases to your base attack bonus from other classes,
which might give you additional attacks with your primary
strike). Note that other increases to your base attack bonus
do not increase the number of attacks you can make with
your off hand, as the bonus feats to gain these attacks are
not gained until you reach the required level of monk."
Thank you for the clarification everyone. After looking at the wording a 2nd time, it is true that the monk's flurry base attack bonus in my example would be only +0/+0. However, you still add the barbarian's BAB on top of that.
The keyword to look out for is "monk's." The statement clearly doesn't take into account the base attack bonus of "other" classes (which are added in as a general rule as has been stated above).
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Thank you for the clarification everyone. After looking at the wording a 2nd time, it is true that the monk's flurry base attack bonus in my example would be only +0/+0. However, you still add the barbarian's BAB on top of that.
The keyword to look out for is "monk's." The statement clearly doesn't take into account the base attack bonus of "other" classes (which are added in as a general rule as has been stated above).
Strictly speaking the BAB would be +5 (+3 from the Barbarian, +2 from the Monk's flurry) but as flurry acts the same way as Two-Weapon Fighting, the flurry imposes a -2 penalty to hit.
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Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.We have a barbarian in our party who became civilized and started taking monk levels so that he is currently a barbarian 3/monk 2. We are talking about converting to Pathfinder, but I know this is going to come up.
What is this character's base flurry progression? It seems to me, that with the rules written the way they are, he would only be able to flurry as if his BAB was +2 (since he only has 2 monk levels and nothing else seems to count). That can't be right, can it?
Slightly off topic... and 2 months later... how are you combining Barbarian and Monk to begin with?
Has the Barbarian become lawful and thus lost barbarian abilities?
This thread again... I swear, they should make a whole forum about the monk's BAB during flurry. Or "Stickify" a post with the most common Q&A.
Noticing the last post, I'd refer to another post where I said that the Barbarian's alignment is only mandatory to enter the class, nothing is said about ex-barbarians, that is, barbarians losing their abilities because of a change of alignment (unlike monks, paladins, etc).
Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.We have a barbarian in our party who became civilized and started taking monk levels so that he is currently a barbarian 3/monk 2. We are talking about converting to Pathfinder, but I know this is going to come up.
What is this character's base flurry progression? It seems to me, that with the rules written the way they are, he would only be able to flurry as if his BAB was +2 (since he only has 2 monk levels and nothing else seems to count). That can't be right, can it?
Slightly off topic... and 2 months later... how are you combining Barbarian and Monk to begin with?
Has the Barbarian become lawful and thus lost barbarian abilities?
Barbarians don't lose abilities by becoming lawful.
Interesting... then why keep the alignment restriction?
You'd still need to do an alignment shift to Lawful to become Monk. I guess I was just curious how that was played out in game.
Generally speaking, you can't level in a class whose prerequisites you don't meet. So a now lawful barbarian can't level in barbarian any more.
As you said, except when indicated (monk, paladin, etc), nothing states that you have to keep the class' prerequisites to continue to level in it (mix this with some group's houserule of retraining feats, and that's another can of munchkin worms). Even less (less than nothing?) is said about keeping the class' abilities even if you don't continue to level in it.
I once played a barbarian/monk. She started as barbarian but, during a rage, she killed her brother. That life-altering event made her rethink her priorities, and she decided to adhere to a stricter view on life (she was true neutral, and switched to lawful neutral). She rarely raged after that, but nothing in the rules prevented her to do so, and even continue to progress in her initial class.
The GM was alright with the story, and I think he'd have agreed to its reverse as well (a monk loosening up on life). I know that, as a GM, I'd allow it if the player came with good enough reasons.
There's rules, and there's rulings, so... to each his own.