Item creation feats = boring treasure hoards?

[Mirror, Mirror]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Simply put, because the game automatically makes item creation suck time away from the player, while the combat feats get to be put to use immediately.

This here is a relatively poor argument. Did you Power Attack last combat? How about Improved Sunder? Or get knocked down to 0 hp's? Plenty of combat feats don't really kick in until special circumstances are met. The same should be true of IC feats, but some argue that they are special.

Now, I am perfectly willing to let a crafter craft in-game, and even craft for the entire party. While the rest of the party is getting the bard elected to public office, the crafter secludes themselves and crafts. And for that and the opportunity cost of the feat, you get to exceed your WBL, and that of the entire party if you choose. I think that's fair.

And I do find it funny that some here will claim that WBL is not a significant factor in CR while others in on of the "Eliminating magic items" threads go into extreme detail how WBL magic items are an essential part of party CR. It's really quite laughable when put side by side.

The only conclusion I can think of is that people react positively when they percieve that they are given things, and negatively when they percieve that things are being taken away...

[William Timmins]

Chris Mortika:
Upon reflection, what I'd probably do is:
Pick one of the random item charts. Roll, get the item, deducting the cost from your total loot.

The short-list would be rings of deflection, cloaks of resistance, base ability score boosts, flat bonus weapons and armors.

[StabbittyDoom]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Bill Dunn wrote:

StabbittyDoom wrote:

I'm going to have to STRONGLY disagree that a character with item creation feats that has more wealth puts it outside the appropriate CR. That character GAVE UP A FEAT to get this, that means that they are less powerful than other characters if they don't have more/better items, which in turn means they have more than the standard wealth level.
Are you going to tell the wizard in my party who has 5 item creation feats that all but two of his feats are useless because he can't have more wealth worth of stuff than the arbitrary guideline in the book says he can? Considering what everyone else can accomplish with their feats at the same level, I'd say he's entitled to a little extra wealth.

All the combat feats are useless too... until play starts. Why shouldn't the same be true of the item creation feats?

Simply put, because the game automatically makes item creation suck time away from the player, while the combat feats get to be put to use immediately.

In a realistic viewpoint, those combat feats served the fighter through his leveling, helping him survive to the point he is today.

The character that wasted feats on item creation very well may not have survived if he wasn't allowed to use his feats.

+1

To expand, other characters (whether they used their feats often or not) took their feats to enable their survival. Those with item creation feats (in theory) are doing the same. If you get to level X and everyone has the same amount and quality of gear, then what good did those item creation feats do? If they did nothing then that isn't fair, because the other characters will immediately make use of their feats but the crafter has to spend a few weeks to catch up to what the amount of crafting they would have normally done already.
In order to keep it fair you at least have to give the person some amount of time (say 4 * level days, to be equally arbitrary) to craft their items so that they can make *some* use of those feats before the next decade (which is in about 3 days, I guess).