Sadly a friend of mine lost his level 1 paladin while rescuing somebody in Council of Thieves.
He now wants to play a fighter, and since we just started Pathfinder I've noticed the fighter is a good at hitting things. And that's just what he wants. No other rules, just clubbering.
Now, I'm helping him a little, by putting together a fighter which is also a little centered on harassing casters and the like.
I want him to have alot of movement when he has all the feats he "needs" to be an effective caster harassing fighter. I took Fleet 4 times at higher levels, in a Mithral Breastplate he will have a movement of 50ft :)
Here's the fighter ... Does this look in any way viable ?
He'll be sporting a Falchion or Greatsword, crossbow for ranged and just a simple spiked gauntlet as a "backup weapon".
+2 from human
Str 16 + 2 (10) - Str is his main stat ofc.
Dex 14 (5) - +2 reflex, AC and initiative
Con 12 (2) - +1HP is always nice, and +1 fort. save
Int 10 (0) - you already don't have enough skill points ... so -1 is a huge loss imho.
Wis 14 (5) - +2 perception and +2 will saves. Imho very important vs casters.
Cha 8 (+2) - meh ... only dumpstat. But a -1 won't hurt you seriously.
1 - Feat(Mobility)
1 - Feat(Dodge)
2 - Feat(Iron Will)
3 - Feat(Lightning Reflexes)
3 - Armor Training (Normal move in Medium Armor, -1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
4 - Feat(Improved Overrun)
4 - Str +1
5 - Feat (Power Attack)
5 - Weapon Training (Heavy Blades (+1 AB/ +1 Dmg))
6 - Feat(Greater Overrun)
7 - Feat(Disruptive)
7 - Armor Training (Normal move in Heavy Armor, -1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
8 - Feat(Critical Focus)
8 - Str +1
9 - Feat(Fleet (+5 movement))
9 - Weapon Training (Crossbows(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg) / Heavy Blades(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg))
10 - Feat(Disruptive)
11 - Feat(Fleet (+5 movement))
11 - Armor Training (-1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
12 - Feat(Fleet (+5 movement))
12 - Str +1
13 - Feat(Fleet (+5 movement))
13 - Weapon Training (Close (+1 AB/ +1 Dmg) / Crossbows(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg) / Heavy Blades(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg))
All pointers, comments and adjustments are welcome ofcourse :)
-TDL
Sadly a friend of mine lost his level 1 paladin while rescuing somebody in Council of Thieves.
He now wants to play a fighter, and since we just started Pathfinder I've noticed the fighter is a good at hitting things. And that's just what he wants. No other rules, just clubbering.
Now, I'm helping him a little, by putting together a fighter which is also a little centered on harassing casters and the like.
I want him to have alot of movement when he has all the feats he "needs" to be an effective caster harassing fighter. I took Fleet 4 times at higher levels, in a Mithral Breastplate he will have a movement of 50ft :)
Here's the fighter ... Does this look in any way viable ?
He'll be sporting a Falchion or Greatsword, crossbow for ranged and just a simple spiked gauntlet as a "backup weapon".
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
I'd get Disruptive as soon as possible (level 6). You're also likely to need things to boost your poor saves, so working them in quickly might not hurt. Finally, you've got Critical Focus at 8th level, but the prerequisite is BAB +9.
Oh, and Fleet's fine, well, and good, but depending on how casters are played, more movement isn't necessarily the answer: different kinds of movement is often the issue.
Changed the Disruptive to level 6 and critical focus to level 9. Thanks for the input there :)
Also added my reason for choosing the feat.
And I've highlighted the places where I could use the feat Fleet. Or any other that would really help the fighter harass and annoy caster.
1 - Feat(Step Up) - Annoy feat #1. Give me those AoO or let them cast defensively.
1 - Feat(Dodge) - Extra AC, and needed for mobility.
1 - Feat(Mobility) - You want to get past the blockers, so +4 AC is nice when moving past them, should they manouver themselves in the way.
2 - Feat(Iron Will) - +2 will saves, should be a good explanation.
3 - Feat(Blind Fighting) - Avoiding the 20% miss chance is indeed nice to have. Thanks to Thalin for pointing that out to me :)
3 - Armor Training (Normal move in Medium Armor, -1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
4 - Feat(Improved Overrun) - You want to get past those blockers, without getting hit with AoO.
4 - Str +1
5 - Feat (Power Attack) - Power Attack + 2H weapon is alot of extra damage.
5 - Weapon Training (Heavy Blades (+1 AB/ +1 Dmg))
6 - Feat(Disruptive) - Annoy feat #2
7 - Feat(Greater Overrun) - You REALLY want to get past those blockers
7 - Armor Training (Normal move in Heavy Armor, -1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
8 - (Lightning Reflexes) - +2 reflex saves for half damage ;)
8 - Str +1
9 - Feat(Critical Focus) - +4 to confirm critical hits with a Keen Falchion +1. I will probably have the combat trait Anatomist for another +1 bonus ... +5 to confirm critical hits should be nice on a 15-20 2H weapon ;)
9 - Weapon Training (Crossbows(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg) / Heavy Blades(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg))
10 - Feat(Disruptive) - Annoy feat #3.
11 - Feat(...) - Can either be Fleet or another suggestion.
11 - Armor Training (-1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
12 - Feat(...) - Can either be Fleet or another suggestion.
12 - Str +1
13 - Feat(...) - Can either be Fleet or another suggestion.
13 - Weapon Training (Close (+1 AB/ +1 Dmg) / Crossbows(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg) / Heavy Blades(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg))
Once again, comments and suggestions are highly appreciated.
-TDL
For caster-harrasing, Blindfighting is critical. Not only do casters go invisible, they often have a lot of illusion-based spell. Mirror image? Thanks, I'll close my eyes and swing with a 25% miss chance instead of 80, and still threaten you.
Ah, yes ... that's true.
I could put that at level 8 ... but the first invisibility spell enters play at around level 3 ...
I can probably switch Lightning Reflexes with Blind Fighting. And put Lightning Reflexes at level 8. A bit late in the game, but at that point blast spells start to hurt ;)
Cheers.
-TDL
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I actually recommend skipping LR all together; there are always better things. Blast spells hurt, but you are well-equipped for that. In the end, will and fort can oneshot you out of a fight, so are far more important of a focus.
I'll build something out when I get home, but generally I would recommend just skipping the dodge/mobility line, take your hits and have a good starting AC (you should be at about 24 by level 4 so you'll be difficult to hit in the first place). Fleet can be bypassed by taking 1 barbaian level; by level 8 you could have move 40 in your Mithril Full Plate. Or consider the Mithril Breastplate/acrobatics option... Less AC, but accomplishes what you truly want with all of those feats with a skill.
To truly harass mages you also need to be a switch hitter; I'd take the lockdown feats, bur becoming a comptent anti-flight archer is also important. Consider this setup:
1: Power Attack (makes you a force at low levels)
1: Step up (Start lockdown trend)
1: Weapon Focus: Falchion
2: Blindfighting
3: Point Blank Shot
4: Weapon specialization: Falchion
5: Precise Shot
6: Disruptive
7: Rapid Shot
8: Vital Strike
9: Deadly Aim
10: Quickdraw
Have Magic circle cast on you by party cleric; this will prevent charm/dominates, and
lasts a long time. The save feats, while nice bonuses, usually aren't worth their
cost... You should focus on what you're good at and just get a good cloak.
This build charges in for heavy damage and attempts to lock up the Mage. If there are too many in the way or the Mage flys he pulls out his Bow and plugs him full of arrows, rather than try to avoid AOOs etc. Early blindfighting insures that invisibility is not an escape route for the unfortunate Mage.
I actually recommend skipping LR all together; there are always better things. Blast spells hurt, but you are well-equipped for that. In the end, will and fort can oneshot you out of a fight, so are far more important of a focus.
Alright, that makes sense. So perhaps a bonus to Fortitude would be better. Although that is the higher save for the fighter.
Any ideas on what kind of other feats I could use there.
Any utility feats .. or perhaps to make make better use of the crossbow ?
-TDL
You have Disruptive listed twice.
Can you take it multiple times?
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For stats, do Str 19 int 7 wis 14 dex 14 con 14 chr 7
15 buy lower the wis to 10 (can't be helped)
25 gets you another 2 to dex (16)
Idea will be good save stats while focus on high damage output. All bumps go to strength. This will start him with 2d6+9 damage, with an AC of a very respectable 18 (chain and +3 dex). This will be up to about 24 by level 4, as you armor train, get full plate, and make it +1 (along with ring and amulet +1).
If you are considering dipping into barbarian for the movement increase a second level gives you acces to No Escape or Superstitious rage powers. They're worth a look.
Just a random, perhaps troll-ish sidenote, but this is why I prefer 3.x/PF over systems that have more limited "roles" for classes. I like the ability to be able to build a caster harasser. How sweet is that?
Ok, back to the topic now :)
With the danger of starting a rage here... :-)
I have 2 suggestions: If you want to harras a mage, give him a hug! And a good one at that! So if you choose to grapple the guy you can control him pretty well...
There's option A) Fighter with Imp. Grapple and all that other stuff (some of the good feat choices you already made) and don't forget to porcupine him (Spiky bits on the armor, see? ;-))
option B) Make a monk! If you have a hard time seeing this, take a look at Treantmonks sweet little guide here
Cheers!
With the danger of starting a rage here... :-)
I have 2 suggestions: If you want to harras a mage, give him a hug! And a good one at that! So if you choose to grapple the guy you can control him pretty well...
There's option A) Fighter with Imp. Grapple and all that other stuff (some of the good feat choices you already made) and don't forget to porcupine him (Spiky bits on the armor, see? ;-))
option B) Make a monk! If you have a hard time seeing this, take a look at Treantmonks sweet little guide here
Cheers!
Grappling ... yes ... that sounds nice. However ... I'm kind of new to all these Combat Manouvers. Especially grapple was kind of an hassle last time I tried to throw someone off a wagon :P
And ... Option B ... I've read his guide and followed the thread. And although it's very nice and promising, I keep on having a problem putting a monk(or martial arts and it's weapons) in a Medieval-like World setting. I've tried too .. really .. I also know that in medieval times the East was also there .. It's probably me ;)
Just a random, perhaps troll-ish sidenote, but this is why I prefer 3.x/PF over systems that have more limited "roles" for classes. I like the ability to be able to build a caster harasser. How sweet is that?
Ok, back to the topic now :)
VERY true, I hail from 1st edition ... with a little 2nd edition DnD. And all fighters/mages/cleric/thiefs are the same.
Not that I didn't have fun playing those, but in PF ... wow ... With every character I look into ... Too ... Many ... Options ... *giggles maniacally* :P
You have Disruptive listed twice.
Can you take it multiple times?
That's my bad, the higher level one is Spellbreaker. My bad :)
For stats, do Str 19 int 7 wis 14 dex 14 con 14 chr 7
15 buy lower the wis to 10 (can't be helped)
25 gets you another 2 to dex (16)
Idea will be good save stats while focus on high damage output. All bumps go to strength. This will start him with 2d6+9 damage, with an AC of a very respectable 18 (chain and +3 dex). This will be up to about 24 by level 4, as you armor train, get full plate, and make it +1 (along with ring and amulet +1).
Hmm .. yes .. but the 7 int is somewhat low. Only 1 skillpoint per level, although you could lose the 1HP from the favoured class.
And Str 19 means you get to str 20 at level 4. That's pretty nasty.
I'll be going over the feats now.
Grapple isn't necessarily a good option as they will still be able to cast spells until you pin. and when you pin you get needled yourself thanks to the no dex bonus.
Grapple DC
10 + grappler's CMB + spell level
Casting Defensively
15 + double spell level +4(Disruptive)
So your CMB must be greater than 9 + spell level to make it worth it, and then you need to take the penalties for being in a grapple.
Injury
10 + damage dealt + spell level
Combat reflexes should be on there, as Disruptive only works if you haven't taken your AoO. I recomend readying actions for when they start casting to hit them also, forcing multiple checks.
Alright, I concur with Thalin. Since I completely forgot about fly/levitate (dunno why though ;))
I also added the Combat Reflexes. Sounded better that Rapid Shot, since the bow is my backup/ranged attack.
This is what I made of it.
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 9
Wis 14
Cha 7
1: Step up (Start lockdown trend, harass caster #1)
1: Weapon Focus: Falchion (+1 attack bonus)
2: Blindfighting (no concealment)
3: Point Blank Shot (+1 damage on short range attacks)
3: Armor Training (Normal move in Medium Armor, -1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
4: Weapon specialization: Falchion (+2 damage)
4: Str +1 (Str 20)
5: Precise Shot (no -4 penalty when shooting into melee)
5: Weapon Training (Heavy Blades (+1 AB/ +1 Dmg))
6: Disruptive (harass caster #2)
7: Combat Reflexes (+2 extra attacks of opportunity)
7: Armor Training (Normal move in Heavy Armor, -1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
8: Deadly Aim (-1 attack penalty / +2 damage bonus)
8: Str +1 (Str 21)
9: Critical Focus (+4 attack bonus to confirm critical hits)
9: Weapon Training (Bows(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg) / Heavy Blades(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg))
10: Spell Breaker (harass caster #3)
11: Vital Strike (double dice damage, 4d4 + str + powerattack = ouch)
11: Armor Training (-1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
12: Greater Weapon Focus: Falchion (+1 attack bonus)
12: Str +1 (Str 22)
13: Greater Weapon specialization: Falchion (+2 damage bonus)
13: Weapon Training (Close (+1 AB/ +1 Dmg) / Bows(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg) / Heavy Blades(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg))
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For caster-harrasing, Blindfighting is critical. Not only do casters go invisible, they often have a lot of illusion-based spell. Mirror image? Thanks, I'll close my eyes and swing with a 25% miss chance instead of 80, and still threaten you.
Umm... Blind-fight doesn't let you know what square to attack. You would still have the same chance of attacking the wrong creature unless you had some way of knowing what square is the real one, in which case you'd just attack them with eyes open and have no miss chance.
The main benefit (IMO) is that you are not flat-footed against an invisible attacker (assuming you know they're present). This prevents an invisible rogue from sneak-attacking you into oblivion.
Blind Fight would also not allow you to take AoO against him if you would not normally be able to, so if they have a miss chance you don't get Dissruptive.
Well, after some math ... he seems pretty viable :)
I took the liberty of being able to buy the weapons below in the least.
Weapon: Keen Falchion +1 (2d4+1 / 15-20 crit / x2)
Attack bonus(level 13)
Attack #1 +13 BAB + 6Str +2 (Greater) Weapon Focus +3 Weapon Training +1 Magical Falchion -4 Power Attack = +21
Attack #2 +13 BAB + 6Str +2 (Greater) Weapon Focus +3 Weapon Training -4 Power Attack +1 Magical Falchion -5 second attack penalty = +16
Attack #1 +13 BAB + 6Str +2 (Greater) Weapon Focus +3 Weapon Training -4 Power Attack +1 Magical Falchion -10 second attack penalty = +11
Damage Bonus(Level 13)
+9 str +4 (Greater) Weapon Specialisation +3 Weapon Training +1 Magical Falchion +12 Power Attack = +29
On a Critical Hit 4d4 + 58 ... wow :P
Which has a pretty good chance of happening on a lot of 1st hits.
15+21 = 37 ... that should hit most of the time.
Confirming has another +5 bonus. So I have a +26 bonus to confirm :P
Ranged isn't too bad either.
Weapon: Seeking Composite (+6) Longbow +1
Attack #1 +13 BAB + 2dex +2 Weapon Training +1 Magical Bow -4 Deadly Aim = +14
Attack #2 +13 BAB + 2dex +2 Weapon Training +1 Magical Bow -4 Deadly Aim -5 second attack penalty = +9
Attack #1 +13 BAB + 2dex +2 Weapon Training +1 Magical Bow -4 Deadly Aim -10 second attack penalty = +4
Damage Bonus(Level 13)
+6 Composite +2 Weapon Training +1 Magical Longbow +8 Deadly Aim = +17
Adjacent to casters I will be able to Step Up to them immediatly, give a +4 disruptive penalty and even when casting defensively I get an attack of opportunity. Also, when they are able to cast 2 spells (quickened or whatever) they provoke another attack of opportunity :)
Besides this I will have a movement of 30 in full plate armor, which should be at least +1. If I can afford it I'll try to make it Spell Resistant ... that would be incredible ... But the SR19 is pretty expensive :P
Another item that is a MUST (imho) is a Brooch of Shielding. 101 damage of magic missiles absorbed for a "mere" 1800gp.
His AC should be 10 + 10 (full plate +1) +2 dex + 1 ring + 1 amulet = 24. However, most spells use touch AC ... which is alot lower :P
Not too bad I reckon.
Roleplaying will be something else entirely ... but not up to me ;)
Very few skills ... and interacting with people ... meh ... who needs to talk when you can slice&dice :P
-TDL
Quickened Spells don't provoke, and I don't think there is any abiiities which make non-provoking actions provoke.
Combat Reflexes is still a good idea at some point anyways.
If Ranged is 'back up', you probably don't need to shoot into melee (Precise Shot), do you?
Likewise, even if you want Deadly Aim for your 'secondary', it doesn't need PBS.
If you are within 30', why not close to melee? If you don't want to be in melee, why are you staying within 30'?
I would get (basic) Cleave at least, ALOT of the time you actually have to Move into position...
After all, Casters are generally free to Move (unless Summoning, in which case they're f*#$ed),
so you're going to have to keep up as well, and taking out an adjacent mook at the same time seems like a good use of your actions.
Also, I think you NEED Lunge to maximize the people you threaten. Ditch some ranged Feats for it... (and grab Toughness too)
Given your STR>DEX, grabbing Weapon Focus: Longbow instead of Grt Focus:Falchion (or just the special Ranged Feats you currently have) could be more benefit.
Something letting you Fly would be good when you can afford it.
Buffing Saves / Save Stats is probably more effective than Armor SR, certainly cost effective.
Armor Fortification is probably your best bet if worried about Sneak Attacks.
[QUOTE="Thalin"
The main benefit (IMO) is that you are not flat-footed against an invisible attacker (assuming you know they're present). This prevents an invisible rogue from sneak-attacking you into oblivion.
I did not know blind-fight help you keep your dex. Thanks for the info. The feat will now get more consideration in future builds.
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And ... Option B ... I've read his guide and followed the thread. And although it's very nice and promising, I keep on having a problem putting a monk(or martial arts and it's weapons) in a Medieval-like World setting. I've tried too .. really .. I also know that in medieval times the East was also there .. It's probably me ;)
from battle-minded
ascetics to self-taught brawlers.
The monk doesn't have to "East." He could be a boxer, Greco-Roman wrestler (or just wrestling if you prefer to wear clothes), Savate, Krav Maga (I know, not historical but whatever), natural tough guy, etc...Ki's could be grunts. The only thing going against would be the Monk weapons. You don't have to use them, or house rule different proficiencies.
Quickened Spells don't provoke, and I don't think there is any abiiities which make non-provoking actions provoke.
Combat Reflexes is still a good idea at some point anyways.If Ranged is 'back up', you probably don't need to shoot into melee (Precise Shot), do you?
Likewise, even if you want Deadly Aim for your 'secondary', it doesn't need PBS.
If you are within 30', why not close to melee? If you don't want to be in melee, why are you staying within 30'?I would get (basic) Cleave at least, ALOT of the time you actually have to Move into position...
After all, Casters are generally free to Move (unless Summoning, in which case they're f*!~ed),
so you're going to have to keep up as well, and taking out an adjacent mook at the same time seems like a good use of your actions.Also, I think you NEED Lunge to maximize the people you threaten. Ditch some ranged Feats for it... (and grab Toughness too)
Given your STR>DEX, grabbing Weapon Focus: Longbow instead of Grt Focus:Falchion (or just the special Ranged Feats you currently have) could be more benefit.Something letting you Fly would be good when you can afford it.
Buffing Saves / Save Stats is probably more effective than Armor SR, certainly cost effective.
Armor Fortification is probably your best bet if worried about Sneak Attacks.
I'll have a looksy tomorrow. It's sleepy time for TDL now :)
You make some valid points aswell.
And ... Option B ... I've read his guide and followed the thread. And although it's very nice and promising, I keep on having a problem putting a monk(or martial arts and it's weapons) in a Medieval-like World setting. I've tried too .. really .. I also know that in medieval times the East was also there .. It's probably me ;)
The monk doesn't have to "East." He could be a boxer, Greco-Roman wrestler (or just wrestling if you prefer to wear clothes), Savate, Krav Maga (I know, not historical but whatever), natural tough guy, etc...Ki's could be grunts. The only thing going against would be the Monk weapons. You don't have to use them, or house rule different proficiencies.from battle-minded
ascetics to self-taught brawlers.
I know .. I know .. I'm blaming myself for watching to many old kung-fu movies.
I tried to make one with normal weapons .. but .. I can't wrap my head around them :)
No faults to PF .. it's me .. really :)
-TDL
A caster is harassing the fighter again? I recommend a restraining order. However crying to the parties cleric might get him to talk to the bully for you.
Quickened Spells don't provoke, and I don't think there is any abiiities which make non-provoking actions provoke.
Combat Reflexes is still a good idea at some point anyways.If Ranged is 'back up', you probably don't need to shoot into melee (Precise Shot), do you?
Likewise, even if you want Deadly Aim for your 'secondary', it doesn't need PBS.
If you are within 30', why not close to melee? If you don't want to be in melee, why are you staying within 30'?I would get (basic) Cleave at least, ALOT of the time you actually have to Move into position...
After all, Casters are generally free to Move (unless Summoning, in which case they're f%@&ed),
so you're going to have to keep up as well, and taking out an adjacent mook at the same time seems like a good use of your actions.Also, I think you NEED Lunge to maximize the people you threaten. Ditch some ranged Feats for it... (and grab Toughness too)
Given your STR>DEX, grabbing Weapon Focus: Longbow instead of Grt Focus:Falchion (or just the special Ranged Feats you currently have) could be more benefit.
Hmmm, I slept on it .. and I think you might be right. I really want the arrows to be a secondary attack in case I need to. I figure I will be good enough to take out the mooks that are in the way.
So ... here we go again ... I'll let my friend at the gaming table know how much effort we're all putting into his character ;)
1: Power Attack (-1 attack penalty / +3 damage bonus)
1: Step up (Start lockdown trend, harass caster #1)
1: Toughness (+3HP at first level for a frontline fighter is nice indeed)
2: Cleave (Attack the other mook in the way of the caster)
3: Weapon Focus: Falchion (+1 attack bonus)
3: Armor Training (Normal move in Medium Armor, -1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
4: Blindfighting (no concealment, at this point casters get easier access to invisibility)
4: Str +1 (Str 20)
5: Weapon specialization: Falchion (+2 damage)
5: Weapon Training (Heavy Blades (+1 AB/ +1 Dmg))
6: Disruptive (harass caster #2)
7: Combat Reflexes (+2 extra attacks of opportunity)
7: Armor Training (Normal move in Heavy Armor, -1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
8: Lunge (I got more attacks of opportunity, so I can do more attacks of opportunity on anyone trying to move 5ft around me)
8: Str +1 (Str 21)
9: Critical Focus (+4 attack bonus to confirm critical hits)
9: Weapon Training (Bows(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg) / Heavy Blades(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg))
10: Spell Breaker (harass caster #3)
11: Deadly Aim (Extra damage on every arrow I shoot is nice to have)
11: Armor Training (-1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
12: Greater Weapon Focus: Falchion (+1 attack bonus)
12: Str +1 (Str 22)
13: Greater Weapon specialization: Falchion (+2 damage bonus)
13: Weapon Training (Close (+1 AB/ +1 Dmg) / Bows(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg) / Heavy Blades(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg))
Since the fighter can choose to ditch feats at levels 4, 8 and 12, I can always lose the ones that don't work as I want them. Or if the situations don't come up that often.
Something letting you Fly would be good when you can afford it.
Buffing Saves / Save Stats is probably more effective than Armor SR, certainly cost effective.
Armor Fortification is probably your best bet if worried about Sneak Attacks.
Yes, I see ... so a ring of protection +3 is worth more than the spell resistance. Cost wise that is. Getting both .. would just be awesome I think .. although even more pricy ofcourse :)
I think I will keep the character like this and present it to my friend. See what he thinks of it.
-TDL
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The SR of armor scales poorly, and is fairly irrelevant once you can afford it. With ring and a 14 in your save stats, you'll be +10 by 10th level; not terrible (many will be worse) and by then for 4k you can get a +2 Wis item if you really care.
Your build shaped up well :). Though you might want Standstill if you're taking CR. Right now nothing is stopping that dastardly caster from moving further away and just taking 1 AOO. Certainly more important than Critical Focus, though I understand CF builds up to higher level feats.
If you can do a better bow instead of flying gear, I'd do that. If I were running an intelligent caster, I'd bait the fighter up to a great height, then dispel his flying gear.
The SR of armor scales poorly, and is fairly irrelevant once you can afford it. With ring and a 14 in your save stats, you'll be +10 by 10th level; not terrible (many will be worse) and by then for 4k you can get a +2 Wis item if you really care.
Yes, I figured that too. I'll keep my money in my pocket :)
Your build shaped up well :). Though you might want Standstill if you're taking CR. Right now nothing is stopping that dastardly caster from moving further away and just taking 1 AOO. Certainly more important than Critical Focus, though I understand CF builds up to higher level feats.
Thanks, all with the help of these forums ... love it :)
It does make sense stopping that caster from getting past me ... I might favor that over Deadly Aim.
This character will join my ranger and a sorceress in Council of Thieves AP so ranged attack should be no problem.
If you can do a better bow instead of flying gear, I'd do that. If I were running an intelligent caster, I'd bait the fighter up to a great height, then dispel his flying gear.
Well, I'm thinking a Frosty Seeking Composite Longbow(+6) +1(or higher) should do fine. But this is really secondary. The Frosty Keen Falchion +1(or higher) and a Mithral Full Plate of Speed have a higher priority :)
-TDL
1: Power Attack (-1 attack penalty / +3 damage bonus)
1: Step up (Start lockdown trend, harass caster #1)
1: Toughness (+3HP at first level for a frontline fighter is nice indeed)2: Cleave (Attack the other mook in the way of the caster)
3: Weapon Focus: Falchion (+1 attack bonus)
3: Armor Training (Normal move in Medium Armor, -1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
I'd probably recommend shifting the feat selection to Weapon focus at 1st, Power Attack at 2nd, and Cleave at 3rd. Mechanically, the +1 on attack rolls from Weapon Focus is most significant at 1st level and mitigates the penalty for using Power Attack (which makes it more effective, too).
9: Critical Focus (+4 attack bonus to confirm critical hits)
9: Weapon Training (Bows(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg) / Heavy Blades(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg))10: Spell Breaker (harass caster #3)
11: Deadly Aim (Extra damage on every arrow I shoot is nice to have)
11: Armor Training (-1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
I'd also recommend Great Cleave at 9th and Critical Focus at 11th. The extra attacks from Great Cleave (especially with Power Attack and Lunge) will probably be more useful than the extra damage from Deadly Aim; invest in bracers of archery, a composite bow built for Str (+5 or +6 damage right there), and pick up some bane, flaming, frost, shock, holy, and slaying arrows instead (or talk a spellcaster with Craft Magic Arms and Armor into making some arrows with single use, use-activated spell effects, like shocking grasp (CL 5), hideous laughter, touch of idiocy, dispel magic, etc.).
Otherwise, the character looks like a good mix of damage and spell-disruption.
Well, I'm thinking a Frosty Seeking Composite Longbow(+6) +1(or higher) should do fine. But this is really secondary. The Frosty Keen Falchion +1(or higher) and a Mithral Full Plate of Speed have a higher priority :)
Because of the way that the enhancement bonuses for bows/crossbows interact with arrows/bolts, it's cheaper/more effective to use a +2 seeking composite longbow with some +1 frost arrows. Also, by investing in a variety of ammunition, you can attack a wider variety of foes with effect. A keen holy falchion is better against more opponents than a keen icy burst one. Thundering is a decent option if you're already optimizing for critical hits, considering how rare Sonic Resistance is, but only after holy, IMO.
A word of caution. Lunge does not let you increase your threat range for AoO. It specifically states that its on your turn you get the bonus to reach.
Arrows that make you laugh hysterically when they hit you? +1
:-)
Don't mess with a bard archer who took Craft Magic Arms and Armor... especially if they become arcane archers.
A word of caution. Lunge does not let you increase your threat range for AoO. It specifically states that its on your turn you get the bonus to reach.
Lunge (Combat)
You can strike foes that would normally be out of reach.Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: You can increase the reach of your melee attacks by 5 feet until the end of your turn by taking a –2 penalty to your AC until your next turn. You must decide to use this ability before any attacks are made.
Can't I decide to increase my reach at the start of the turn, in which no one has acted yet, so my reach has already improved when people start moving around .. and move into my threat range ?
Just wondering btw .. I think lunge is good to have vs the spellcaster when he's _just_ out of reach.
-TDL
I'd probably recommend shifting the feat selection to Weapon focus at 1st, Power Attack at 2nd, and Cleave at 3rd. Mechanically, the +1 on attack rolls from Weapon Focus is most significant at 1st level and mitigates the penalty for using Power Attack (which makes it more effective, too).
That sounds pretty good, since we all leveled to level 2 just after he died ... he has access to the level 2 feat too. Perfect :)
I'd also recommend Great Cleave at 9th and Critical Focus at 11th. The extra attacks from Great Cleave (especially with Power Attack and Lunge) will probably be more useful than the extra damage from Deadly Aim.
Sounds reasonable .. but Greater Cleave also states that the foes have to be adjacent to the first one you hit. It does say within reach, so it would seem a bit easier to setup. But still pretty hard to setup properly I think ...
Invest in bracers of archery, a composite bow built for Str (+5 or +6 damage right there), and pick up some bane, flaming, frost, shock, holy, and slaying arrows instead (or talk a spellcaster with Craft Magic Arms and Armor into making some arrows with single use, use-activated spell effects, like shocking grasp (CL 5), hideous laughter, touch of idiocy, dispel magic, etc.).
Those arrows are awesome .. I didn't know you could use use-activated spells on arrows .. where does it say that in the core rules ?
I might want to use that myself with my ranger :)
Otherwise, the character looks like a good mix of damage and spell-disruption.
Thanks, I had quite some help from the people on the forums here .. I've put more thought into his character (rollplay wise) then on my own Ranger :D
Because of the way that the enhancement bonuses for bows/crossbows interact with arrows/bolts, it's cheaper/more effective to use a +2 seeking composite longbow with some +1 frost arrows. Also, by investing in a variety of ammunition, you can attack a wider variety of foes with effect. A keen holy falchion is better against more opponents than a keen icy burst one. Thundering is a decent option if you're already optimizing for critical hits, considering how rare Sonic Resistance is, but only after holy, IMO.
Aren't the arrows a little expensive then .. ?
I like the idea however, but more for my own ranger ;)Holy sounds good, very good even .. and Thundering has a very nasty deafening side effect. Versus casters .. that's another penalty on their spellcasting (if I'm not mistaken ;))
Would be quite a sick weapon btw ... Holy Keen Falchion of Thunder :)
A bit pricy ... Total of 50k for a weapon alone ... +5 bonus if I'm correct.
Thanks for the info .. I'll go shuffle it up and see how it does.
Here we go :)
1: Step up (Start lockdown trend, harass caster #1)
1: Toughness (+3HP at first level for a frontline fighter is nice indeed)
2: Power Attack (-1 attack penalty / +3 damage bonus)
3: Cleave (Attack the other mook in the way of the caster)
3: Armor Training (Normal move in Medium Armor, -1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
4: Blindfighting (no concealment, at this point casters get easier access to invisibility)
4: Str +1 (Str 20)
5: Weapon specialization: Falchion (+2 damage)
5: Weapon Training (Heavy Blades (+1 AB/ +1 Dmg))
6: Disruptive (harass caster #2)
7: Combat Reflexes (+2 extra attacks of opportunity)
7: Armor Training (Normal move in Heavy Armor, -1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
8: Lunge (I got more attacks of opportunity, so I can do more attacks of opportunity on anyone trying to move 5ft around me)
8: Str +1 (Str 21)
9: Great Cleave (Keep on hitting enemies who are adjacent to each other, use reach to attack even more foes)
9: Weapon Training (Bows(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg) / Heavy Blades(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg))
10: Spell Breaker (harass caster #3)
11: Critical Focus (+4 attack bonus to confirm critical hits)
11: Armor Training (-1 ACP, +1 Max Dex Bonus)
12: Greater Weapon Focus: Falchion (+1 attack bonus)
12: Str +1 (Str 22)
13: Greater Weapon specialization: Falchion (+2 damage bonus)
13: Weapon Training (Close (+1 AB/ +1 Dmg) / Bows(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg) / Heavy Blades(+1 AB/ +1 Dmg))
-TDL
Invest in bracers of archery, a composite bow built for Str (+5 or +6 damage right there), and pick up some bane, flaming, frost, shock, holy, and slaying arrows instead (or talk a spellcaster with Craft Magic Arms and Armor into making some arrows with single use, use-activated spell effects, like shocking grasp (CL 5), hideous laughter, touch of idiocy, dispel magic, etc.).Those arrows are awesome .. I didn't know you could use use-activated spells on arrows .. where does it say that in the core rules ?
Table 15-29, on pg. 550, under Spell Effect: "Single use, use activated -- Spell level x caster level x 50 gp." See also slaying arrow and sleep arrow on pg. 476.
Because of the way that the enhancement bonuses for bows/crossbows interact with arrows/bolts, it's cheaper/more effective to use a +2 seeking composite longbow with some +1 frost arrows. Also, by investing in a variety of ammunition, you can attack a wider variety of foes with effect. A keen holy falchion is better against more opponents than a keen icy burst one. Thundering is a decent option if you're already optimizing for critical hits, considering how rare Sonic Resistance is, but only after holy, IMO.Aren't the arrows a little expensive then .. ?
Somewhat ("+2" arrows have a market cost of 167 gp each). However, compare the market cost difference between a +2 seeking composite longbow (+6 Str bonus) (19,000 gp) and a +2 frost seeking composite longbow (+6 Str bonus) (33,000 gp). At earlier levels, start with a +1 composite longbow (+6 Str bonus) (3,000 gp) and lesser bracers of archery (5,000 gp), then keep improving the bow (+1 seeking composite longbow (+6 Str bonus) (9,000 gp), +2 seeking composite longbow (+6 Str bonus) (19,000 gp), etc.), instead of replacing it. Use arrows for abilities that you want to change (energy damage, special materials, etc.) or won't affect a wide variety of opponents.
Holy sounds good, very good even .. and Thundering has a very nasty deafening side effect. Versus casters .. that's another penalty on their spellcasting (if I'm not mistaken ;))
For most weapons, IMO, the two best abilities are holy and speed. Keen and thundering are useful for certain weapons (they work best with weapons that have criticals of 18-20/x2 or 20/x4); Improved Critical does the same thing as keen, if you can afford the feat. For ranged weapons, seeking is very useful, unless you have Improved Precise Shot. Distance is also useful, especially with Far Shot.
Would be quite a sick weapon btw ... Holy Keen Falchion of Thunder :)
A bit pricy ... Total of 50k for a weapon alone ... +5 bonus if I'm correct.
You work your way up to it. See "Adding New Abilities" on pg. 553.
Start with a +1 adamantine falchion (5,075 gp) +1 cold iron falchion (4,450), +1 mithral falchion (4,075gp), +1 alchemical silver falchion (2,555 gp), or plain +1 falchion (2,375 gp). Then, when you can afford it (probably around 7th-8th level), have that falchion improved to +1 keen (for 6,000 gp, since you're not paying for a completely new weapon). Then, at about 10th level, you can pay to improve it to a +2 keen falchion (for 10,000 gp). Around 14th level, get it improved to a +2 holy keen falchion (for 32,000 gp). By 16th level, you probably want to have it improved to a +3 holy keen falchion (for 22,000 gp). When you reach 17th level, get it improved to a +3 holy keen thundering falchion (for 26,000 gp). Finally, around 19th-20th level, improve it to a +3 holy keen speed thundering falchion (for 102,000 gp).
Alternately, if you take the Improved Critical feat, you can skip keen and go for a +1 holy falchion at 10th, a +2 holy falchion at 12th, a +2 holy thundering falchion at 14th, a +3 holy thundering falchion at 16th, a +3 holy speed thundering falchion at 18th, and a +4 holy speed thundering falchion at 19th-20th.
Table 15-29, on pg. 550, under Spell Effect: "Single use, use activated -- Spell level x caster level x 50 gp." See also slaying arrow and sleep arrow on pg. 476.
Oh man .. that is nice .. I'll have to look into that.
Thanks for the heads up on those :)Somewhat ("+2" arrows have a market cost of 167 gp each). However, compare the market cost difference between a +2 seeking composite longbow (+6 Str bonus) (19,000 gp) and a +2 frost seeking composite longbow (+6 Str bonus) (33,000 gp). At earlier levels, start with a +1 composite longbow (+6 Str bonus) (3,000 gp) and lesser bracers of archery (5,000 gp), then keep improving the bow (+1 seeking composite longbow (+6 Str bonus) (9,000 gp), +2 seeking composite longbow (+6 Str...
Well, we're playing Council of Thieves now, and I don't know how the wealth will work out. We'll have to wait and see. I will keep this in mind though.
Alternately, if you take the Improved Critical feat, you can skip keen and go for a +1 holy falchion at 10th, a +2 holy falchion at 12th, a +2 holy thundering falchion at 14th, a +3 holy thundering falchion at 16th, a +3 holy speed thundering falchion at 18th, and a +4 holy speed thundering falchion at 19th-20th.
It will have to be a Keen Falchion, since I've sortof spent all the feats already ;)
Cheers for the nice replies :)
-TDL
Well I dont know if I would be that detailed but I'm currently kicking around a fighter. Though, I've mentioned it to some of the other players in my group and they are alittle disenchanted with the idea because its not the norm for a fighter, My thought is using a Klar/Trident style.
Human Fighter LvL 1
Str: 16 (18 +2 Human AP)
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 17
Cha: 15
(stats are from GM for basis of creation atm)
Hp: 12
Skill Points 4+1(favored)+4(human)
BA:
5 Melee
5 Ranged
CMB: 5
CMD: 9
AC: 20 (Armor 4/Dex 4/Shield 2)
Flat: 14
Touch: 16
(I get those mixed up so I hope thats right)
Initiative: 4
Feats:
Weapon Focus: Trident
Shield Focus
Improved Shield Bash
Trait: ( haven't descided yet)
Weapons:
Trident
Klar ( in the CotCT / RotR )
Short Sword