You came across fine. I typo'd. They should be able to but can't.
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I agree as well Shaman. I own a set of double-ring chain-mail that is a hauberk and about 50 to 75 pounds as well as a Large Round shield. The shield has three straps to be exact. One that is a long sling to hang it over my back/shoulder if need be or just drop so it hangs at my side and the other two secure it to my arm in use. None of which keeps me from laying my hand upon my chest with a simple gesture.
Now if the Lay On Hands ability mentioned that flesh to flesh contact would be necessary most paladins would be hard pressed to use it on anyone save to touch their face or something like that. Armor does not hinder a priest casting a healing spell with mace and shield does it or healing someone in armor? A shield in hand does not replace your hand you can still use that hand to hold something light ... like a torch or some such even holding onto the strap of your shield. Especially a cleric/paladin of IOMEDAE... whose sword IS her/his Holy symbol?
A case could be made that with a swift action you can 'release hold' of a shield with your hand and touch someone without dropping the shield entirely. I don't know of any shield ...save perhaps a buckler that are not secure to two places on the arm...forearm and hand. Releasing the hand does not drop the shield... usually. Of course in the swift action period of time you are not getting your shield bonus. That might be cause for someone with a readied action to strike...but I really don't see that provoking an AoO.
Plus indeed the iconic paladin picture shows Selah {by the way who I think is totally cool being a woman and black! Heck I'd date her!} wielding a Sword and shield in heavy gauntleted hands. Sometimes game mechanism should be TRUMPED by plain common sense.
Ah well leave it to the DMs to decide case by case...
I agree as well Shaman. I own a set of double-ring chain-mail that is a hauberk and about 50 to 75 pounds as well as a Large Round shield. The shield has three straps to be exact. One that is a long sling to hang it over my back/shoulder if need be or just drop so it hangs at my side and the other two secure it to my arm in use. None of which keeps me from laying my hand upon my chest with a simple gesture.
Now if the Lay On Hands ability mentioned that flesh to flesh contact would be necessary most paladins would be hard pressed to use it on anyone save to touch their face or something like that. Armor does not hinder a priest casting a healing spell with mace and shield does it or healing someone in armor? A shield in hand does not replace your hand you can still use that hand to hold something light ... like a torch or some such even holding onto the strap of your shield. Especially a cleric/paladin of IOMEDAE... whose sword IS her/his Holy symbol?
A case could be made that with a swift action you can 'release hold' of a shield with your hand and touch someone without dropping the shield entirely. I don't know of any shield ...save perhaps a buckler that are not secure to two places on the arm...forearm and hand. Releasing the hand does not drop the shield... usually. Of course in the swift action period of time you are not getting your shield bonus. That might be cause for someone with a readied action to strike...but I really don't see that provoking an AoO.
Plus indeed the iconic paladin picture shows Selah {by the way who I think is totally cool being a woman and black! Heck I'd date her!} wielding a Sword and shield in heavy gauntleted hands. Sometimes game mechanism should be TRUMPED by plain common sense.
Ah well leave it to the DMs to decide case by case...
As my cleric I was using a "mace" which was actually a Quicken rod and a buckler in my offhand. So I could take the rod in the offhand while I was casting with somatic components. A shame, Id have loved a large steel shield or something like that.
Quickstrike shields or whatever they are called are great now that Animated ability is trash. Get off shield, full attack with my 2h, get on shield again, all for the price of Quick Draw. Looks like I will be in, when Ill manage to buy a +5 shield or something like that :P
I'd expect that many "heavy" shields are actually held via several straps; releasing one so you can put a hand on yourself should be possible without releasing the shield altogether.
It might not be 101% accurate, but I'd say sword & shield paladins are iconic enough to merit not being screwed by a minor game mechanic.
I agree. I'm building a Paladin right now, and I'm disappointed that using a shield is a pretty lousy build for a Paladin.
I agree. I'm building a Paladin right now, and I'm disappointed that using a shield is a pretty lousy build for a Paladin.I'd expect that many "heavy" shields are actually held via several straps; releasing one so you can put a hand on yourself should be possible without releasing the shield altogether.
It might not be 101% accurate, but I'd say sword & shield paladins are iconic enough to merit not being screwed by a minor game mechanic.
Why not use light shield?
I knowthis is an optimization guide. So what about a Switchitter Pally?
My switch hitting/mounted Pally build is
Race: Any
1- Power Attack
3-Quickdraw (for exploiting quickdraw light shields)
5- PBS
7- Precise shot
9- Rapid Shot (if taken Oath of Vengence or Pally ring of smitey awesome)
*Note- IF you took Human, then Quickdraw was your Racial Feat, bump the other feats forward and get Deadly Aim here
11- Dazing Assault
13- Unsanctioned Knowledge
15- Manyshot
17- Extra LoH or Deadly Aim if not Human.
19- Extra LoH
What it gets you:
2 handed weapon damage.
Decent archery damage (on smite targets)
You can fight 2handed but still get the shield's AC, when it's not your turn via Quickdraw trick.
4- Of the best non Pally spells off of the Bard, Inquisitor or cleric lists.
I like: 1- Featherstep
2- Invisibility
3- Good Hope
4- Divine Power.
Now Power Attack and Dazing Assault are awesome. Even with the penalty for using both, get Divine Power/Smite up and the damage payoff is Huge, coupled with a save or do nothing effect on a bad dude.
Now, There IS an archetype that gets Precise Shot for free but it takes away Aura of Justice. Pally's get a decent number of smites early but with Oath of Vengeance you can get more. If human or if you don't think you have enough smites then take deadly aim earlier, but I'd rather the extra arrow+smite damage and no attack penalty.
I'd also still strongly consider the mount.
It's a walking flank and is a good combatant early.
Later you can ride/shoot full attack while it moves at 0 penalty (as long.as it only moves its speed.
Also, IF the guide gets updated then the Unsanctioned Knowledge feat needs to be added and given a blue rating.
Between 3spell lists to pick from it can Really add to a Pally's raw combat power (via divine power) or versatility (stuff like invisibility). The list to choose from is Massive, so a few notes on suggested spells would be good.
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Not certain if I would consider a switch hitter optimal for a Pally, or really anyone anymore.
First, switch hitting used to be a good ranger option because not a lot of options were available. With bow you would run out quickly (thanks to the free extra feats). Two-handers really didn't have lines... you'd get power attack and be done. So take a bowshooter, throw in power attack and QuickDraw, and bam! Switch hitter.
Life has changed; now the bowshooters will optimize with clustershot, and there are tons of tricks for two-handers (finishing cleave and furious focus etc). So you're much better off just staying with the specialty.
This all applies even moreso to the already-feat-starved paladin. He just doesn't have the tools to do both. In the worst case he can always draw his bow, call smite, and shoot that flying monster; but then having Precise won't do any good. And I'd never bother having a dedicated archer drop his bow, especially as a self-healing machine tank of a pally... just take the AOOs :).
As to Unsanctioned knowledge, pallys have a pretty good spell list already; a minor bump can be good if you're looking for something specific, but I'd rate it orange mostly because I'd have difficulty burning my already-starved feat there. I haven't seen it played yet, so I may underestimate it, but there are typically better things to do (and if I really want Divine Power at 16 I can afford a few scrolls and UMD).
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As to Unsanctioned knowledge, pallys have a pretty good spell list already; a minor bump can be good if you're looking for something specific, but I'd rate it orange mostly because I'd have difficulty burning my already-starved feat there. I haven't seen it played yet, so I may underestimate it, but there are typically better things to do (and if I really want Divine Power at 16 I can afford a few scrolls and UMD).
Vanish, Haste, Slow, Mirror Image, Displacement, Invisibility, GREATER Invisibility, to name just a few of the better ones :D
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Spells – You get none. Next
Oh, OK... they get spells, kinda. Their spell list is even less useful than the Rangers, the only reason you like it is after battle you can pick up wands of cure light wounds and Divine Favor. Treant's done a fine job of most spells, so I will give you some good choices, and talk about a few, and you can read his choice.
Hero's Defiance: The hard to fall paladin become even more harder to fall.
Litany of X: Litany spells are nice. Most of them are no save, and they are swift action to cast, when you don't need to LoH yourself. Litany of Righteousness is specially good, save it for when you are full-attacking the BBEG. If the cleric is also attacking, better. Bad thing is they are language-dependent.Fire of Entaglement: Extra status on your attacks.
Paladin's Sacrifice: Not for everyone, but it make easier for the masochist to save the wizard.
Basically, any swift casting spell that will not eat your actions.
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Part of the problem with most of these lists is they assume the other casters aren't doing their job. Most of these are standard buffs casters will take; no need to waste feats to get them. It is an option if the party is missing a role, but with few exceptions (haste) most of these a party can go without. Only self-only buffs (Divine Power, though at 16 you probably won't want to be using a turn for it) really make this "worth it".
Not certain if I would consider a switch hitter optimal for a Pally, or really anyone anymore.
First, switch hitting used to be a good ranger option because not a lot of options were available. With bow you would run out quickly (thanks to the free extra feats). Two-handers really didn't have lines... you'd get power attack and be done. So take a bowshooter, throw in power attack and QuickDraw, and bam! Switch hitter.
Life has changed; now the bowshooters will optimize with clustershot, and there are tons of tricks for two-handers (finishing cleave and furious focus etc). So you're much better off just staying with the specialty.
As to Unsanctioned knowledge, pallys have a pretty good spell list already; a minor bump can be good if you're looking for something specific, but I'd rate it orange mostly because I'd have difficulty burning my already-starved feat there. I haven't seen it played yet, so I may underestimate it, but there are typically better things to do (and if I really want Divine Power at 16 I can afford a few scrolls and UMD).
1. A Smiting Pally doesn't need to optimise with Cluster Shot. Smite Bypasses DR anyway (Yay Smite!)
2. Furious Focus is Totally Unnessecary for a Pally. We're talking about a full BAB class that gets around +6 to hit (Smite, CHA+Headband) and can buff that further (Divine Favor)
3. Your point on the Bow is Valid. A smiting Pally with a Buff spell on Is an ok archer without any feats vs a flying target. Not so good IF you are shooting into melee. I'd say this depends on party composition, since typically a Pally IS the beatstick.
You mention that TWF Sword and Board Sucks for a Pally.
Maybe a Human Pally pulls it off OK?
1-TWF, Improved Shieldbash
3-Power Attack
5-Doubleslice
7-ITWF
9- Shieldslam
11-Shieldmaster
13-TWR
15-Unsanctioned Knowledge or Spare
17-Stunning Assault
19-Bashing Finish
I've played 2handed pally's in a few modules and the above build in Carrion Crown and he OWNED encounters when smiting (especially now since the Oath of Vengence lets you spend LoH uses for extra smites)
Smite damage applies to both attacks, Moving sucks (one attack only), but DPR on a Full attack is Crazy good.
1. A Smiting Pally doesn't need to optimise with Cluster Shot. Smite Bypasses DR anyway (Yay Smite!)
I would consider it regardless, btw. It is a very good feat, and smite is not something you always have on or can always count on. You have a few smites and only against evil foes, depending on the campaign that will probably not be enough. If the evil mage summons a pair of earth elementals or has a pet golem, or calls in his elite LN guards, you should still have a way to deal with them.
It is worth considering. My Personal Preference is the Sword/Board build above. It has NO ranged feats at all but will shoot flying foes. Number of Smites per day is less of a prob with Oath of Vengeance (especialy a shield using Pally, higher AC gts hit less so doesn't ue as many rescources)
I know this is an optimization guide. So what about a Switchitter Pally?
My switch hitting/mounted Pally build is (Spoilerized for space):
Race: Any
1- Power Attack
3-Quickdraw (for exploiting quickdraw light shields)
5- PBS
7- Precise shot
9- Rapid Shot (if taken Oath of Vengence or Pally ring of smitey awesome)
*Note- IF you took Human, then Quickdraw was your Racial Feat, bump the other feats forward and get Deadly Aim here11- Dazing Assault
13- Unsanctioned Knowledge
15- Manyshot
17- Extra LoH or Deadly Aim if not Human.
19- Extra LoHWhat it gets you:
2 handed weapon damage.
Decent archery damage (on smite targets)
You can fight 2handed but still get the shield's AC, when it's not your turn via Quickdraw trick.
4- Of the best non Pally spells off of the Bard, Inquisitor or cleric lists.
I like: 1- Featherstep
2- Invisibility
3- Good Hope
4- Divine Power.Now Power Attack and Dazing Assault are awesome. Even with the penalty for using both, get Divine Power/Smite up and the damage payoff is Huge, coupled with a save or do nothing effect on a bad dude.
Now, There IS an archetype that gets Precise Shot for free but it takes away Aura of Justice. Pally's get a decent number of smites early but with Oath of Vengeance you can get more. If human or if you don't think you have enough smites then take deadly aim earlier, but I'd rather the extra arrow+smite damage and no attack penalty.
I'd also still strongly consider the mount.
It's a walking flank and is a good combatant early.
Later you can ride/shoot full attack while it moves at 0 penalty (as long.as it only moves its speed.I'm playing a Paladin in a Kingmaker campaign right now, and I'm trying to decide what direction to go with future feats. Switch-hitter is a definite possibility.
My build at 3rd level:Human
Paladin level 3 (No alternate features)
Relevant attributes: STR 20, DEX 12
Feats: Fey Foundling, Power Attack, Furious Focus
Preferred weapon: Falchion
Divine Bond: WeaponMy GM has promised us access do decent mounts either by advancing some horses as we gain level, or through Leadership. So, while I don't have a Divine Bond mount, I can count of having a fair-to-excellent mount by other means.
My fellow party members are a Half-Orc Rogue TWF, Human Oracle, and an Elven Witch.
Coming up on 5th level, I'm trying to decide between three paths:
[1]Devote more feats to rocking the Falchion (Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical. . .)
[2]Mount up (Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack, Leadership, Sprited Charge)
[3]Switch-Hit (Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot)
#1 makes me a specialist, very good at one thing - hit with sword! Also, it leaves me in combat playing the tank role.
#2 has a lot of flavor-appeal, and can give devastating charges. Do I really want to ride-by, or should I always "hit and stick" so that I can keep the BBEG pinned with AOO?
#3 has the most versatility, being good at both range and melee. Will I every stand back long enough to want the archery feats? I don't really know.
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The Power attack line actually has the build to "Cleaving Finish" now; which is very useful (Cleave is a situational closing feat, but the finish is a way to get that all-important extra attack).
The answer is you don't really need the archery feats; you need a bow. If you're not using your sword, odds are your opponent is flying (not in PB/precise range) and 12 dex makes taking -2 for precise pointless. BUT, smite can actually get you keeping up/surpassing damage on dedicated archers (especially since many demons/devils/dragPBS fly).
The mounted combat is very good, but for a medium-sized pally it is limited more to outside, in a clear environment. In short, pretty difficult to pull off, but fun and mechanically good if you do.
The Power attack line actually has the build to "Cleaving Finish" now; which is very useful (Cleave is a situational closing feat, but the finish is a way to get that all-important extra attack).
Cleaving Finish seems much better than Improved Cleave. Cleave will let you hit two adjacent foes without killing one, and Cleaving Finish lets you hit non-adjacent foes if you kill one.
Let us see:
In order to make what you consider to be decent builds you have Holy Knights who are foolish and so stupid they crib off the village idiot. How heroic. I guess Dudley Do-Right is your perfect Paladin.
Next you make the assumption that healing is bad, which has been repeatedly and completely refuted here time and time again, including by no les than James Jacobs.
You blithely ignore Channel which is a great free party healing ability, which can be used as a move action with a feat or even just used after the battle to heal everyone. Yes, unless you’re a Hosptialer (a great archetype) it costs 2 LoH, but if five of your party are wounded the math tells you to Channel.
Pretty much a poor guide.
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1. A Smiting Pally doesn't need to optimise with Cluster Shot. Smite Bypasses DR anyway (Yay Smite!)Bingo. Play a pally like a spellcaster, avoiding dip-outs as much as possible (aside from bard for fop paladins), as so many features of the class are level-dependent -- and it gets to the point where the additional smites, lay on hands and mount advancement out-weight the utility of any extra feat generated from dips into fighter.
You mention that TWF Sword and Board Sucks for a Pally.
Maybe a Human Pally pulls it off OK?
1-TWF, Improved Shieldbash
3-Power Attack
5-Doubleslice
7-ITWF
9- Shieldslam
Try Quick Draw and Combat Reflexes. Equipment: reach weapon, quickdraw shield, bow. -- You'll rack up a lot of extra attacks, especially at BAB6+.
Sword-n-board AC-boosting: If your point-buy is generous, INT14/Combat Expertise, and defense tank with shield + Keen scimitar versus Smite-buddy -- easily winning miss-miss-hit attrition slugfests.
Got to say, I am amazed that no one seems to fancy the Sacred Shield (with Antagonize) build. Add some Viking (fighter archetype) multiclass if you like. Dual wielding is probably best avoided, although the basic feats for shield bash and TWF are affordable.
First of all, really appreciate the guide, along with other players' input. Second, have several questions that I would value your opinions on.
In regards to the sword and board option; What about using a buckler, to make sure you get the shield AC (and especially the various enchantments a shield can have)and still fight two-handed? I am considering going with bastard sword, which can be used both one or two handed. Granted, it takes a feat to gain exotic. While a buckler is a small step down from a heavy shield, it can still hold all the same enchantments; with the bonus of being able to fully use your offhand.
Next, I am really curious as to what your opinions are in regards to Paladin swords(or other weapons). It used to be, it was every pally's ultimate goal to have a Holy Avenger. Now, I am not so sure that is the best option. Sun Blade looks to be a strong front runner, Blade of the Rising Sun (another exotic) also looks to be ideal for a paladin. Outside of swords, creating a Mace of Disruption looks like another strong choice, especially against undead. Or are there other custom made favorites that could be recommended? (Not looking for beginner blades, something in the 50k-100k gp range; and has to be useful against undead).
The guide is useful but the original document uses the D&D 3.5 feat progression instead of Pathfinder, which makes it a but confusing.
Noble Scion (of war) is probably both thematically valid for a Paladin but also mechanically good, especially as you don't have much DEX for most builds. You need to take it at 1st level though.
Peet
In regards to the sword and board option; What about using a buckler, to make sure you get the shield AC (and especially the various enchantments a shield can have)and still fight two-handed? I am considering going with bastard sword, which can be used both one or two handed. Granted, it takes a feat to gain exotic. While a buckler is a small step down from a heavy shield, it can still hold all the same enchantments; with the bonus of being able to fully use your offhand.
Personally, I like this option. It works nicely with Power Attack, also, as a way to create different scales of damage. If you want a little extra damage, just use Power Attack. If you want some more damage, sacrifice 1 AC and 1 attack for some more damage (+from Power Attack and +from 1.5 strength). You can also do this with just a Scimitar or Longsword.
just gonna say: for my 'sword and board' paladins i just go with a buckler (keeps hand free; no muss, no fuss, no feat expenditure) and whatever one-handed sword i prefer that day.
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for a better 'tanking' build i'll usually take a three-level dip into phalanx soldier fighter for extra feats and ability to use a polearm (i like the bardiche) as a onehanded weapon while using a shield (see: buckler)
were it not for the alignment restrictions, i'd go two levels in titan mauler barbarian instead of three in fighter (while this is perfectly viable on an antipaladin, i don't get to play in evil campaigns much).
wear a spiked gauntlet in your buckler hand to AoO anyone who closes to melee.
i make up for the level hit via magical knack trait and extra LoH feats.
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for full-paladin builds i still grab magical knack to bump the caster level from level-3 to level-1, which helps on things like divine favor and such--most of the swift action spells (litanies) dont use a CL.
BTW is there a way to get more smite evils per day?
BTW is there a way to get more smite evils per day?
No.
BTW is there a way to get more smite evils per day?
There is an item, the Silver Smite Bracelet which treats you level as four higher for the purpose of your smite evil class feature. The Bracers of the Avenging Knight have a similar effect, but specifically call out the damage vs. the entire class feature as with the aforementioned bracers which leads those who nit pick game language into believing that said item will grant you additional smites in a day if raising your paladin level by four would give you additional smites.
There is also the Oath of Vengeance archetype, which gives up the Channel Energy ability in exchange for an ability that allows you to give up two uses of Lay on Hands to gain an additional use of smite evil. It is quite popular for that reason.
BTW is there a way to get more smite evils per day?There is an item, the Silver Smite Bracelet which treats you level as four higher for the purpose of your smite evil class feature. The Bracers of the Avenging Knight have a similar effect, but specifically call out the damage vs. the entire class feature as with the aforementioned bracers which leads those who nit pick game language into believing that said item will grant you additional smites in a day if raising your paladin level by four would give you additional smites.
There is also the Oath of Vengeance archetype, which gives up the Channel Energy ability in exchange for an ability that allows you to give up two uses of Lay on Hands to gain an additional use of smite evil. It is quite popular for that reason.
as an expansion of the oath of vengeance thing: consider the bracers of the merciful knight--it adds 4 LoH uses, which is a tad more flexible than the bracers of the avenging knight for the oath of vengeance crowd, since it can add two more smites via their conversions, or be used to heal yourself/allies with the LoH's
as an expansion of the oath of vengeance thing: consider the bracers of the merciful knight--it adds 4 LoH uses, which is a tad more flexible than the bracers of the avenging knight for the oath of vengeance crowd, since it can add two more smites via their conversions, or be used to heal yourself/allies with the LoH'sBTW is there a way to get more smite evils per day?There is an item, the Silver Smite Bracelet which treats you level as four higher for the purpose of your smite evil class feature. The Bracers of the Avenging Knight have a similar effect, but specifically call out the damage vs. the entire class feature as with the aforementioned bracers which leads those who nit pick game language into believing that said item will grant you additional smites in a day if raising your paladin level by four would give you additional smites.
There is also the Oath of Vengeance archetype, which gives up the Channel Energy ability in exchange for an ability that allows you to give up two uses of Lay on Hands to gain an additional use of smite evil. It is quite popular for that reason.
These are good ideas!
Silver Smite bracelet even as a GM I would read it as increasing the number of smites you get. The Silver Smite bracelet is considerably more expensive than the Bracers of the Avenging Knight so if it didn't add smites per day then the two items would do the same thing and the price difference would make no sense.
Bracers of the Merciful Knight are good too, but they only add 2 uses of Lay on hands, not 4. They increase your effective level for lay on hands by 4, but you get 1/2 level + CHA bonus in lay on hands per day.
Peet
as an expansion of the oath of vengeance thing: consider the bracers of the merciful knight--it adds 4 LoH uses, which is a tad more flexible than the bracers of the avenging knight for the oath of vengeance crowd, since it can add two more smites via their conversions, or be used to heal yourself/allies with the LoH'sBTW is there a way to get more smite evils per day?There is an item, the Silver Smite Bracelet which treats you level as four higher for the purpose of your smite evil class feature. The Bracers of the Avenging Knight have a similar effect, but specifically call out the damage vs. the entire class feature as with the aforementioned bracers which leads those who nit pick game language into believing that said item will grant you additional smites in a day if raising your paladin level by four would give you additional smites.
There is also the Oath of Vengeance archetype, which gives up the Channel Energy ability in exchange for an ability that allows you to give up two uses of Lay on Hands to gain an additional use of smite evil. It is quite popular for that reason.
These are good ideas!
Silver Smite bracelet even as a GM I would read it as increasing the number of smites you get. The Silver Smite bracelet is considerably more expensive than the Bracers of the Avenging Knight so if it didn't add smites per day then the two items would do the same thing and the price difference would make no sense.
Bracers of the Merciful Knight are good too, but they only add 2 uses of Lay on hands, not 4. They increase your effective level for lay on hands by 4, but you get 1/2 level + CHA bonus in lay on hands per day.
Peet
They increase your level for it, but that also adds 2 smites per day that you would not have gotten with the Avenging Bracers, and they give more utility than the Silver Bracelets.
They increase your level for it, but that also adds 2 smites per day that you would not have gotten with the Avenging Bracers, and they give more utility than the Silver Bracelets.Bracers of the Merciful Knight are good too, but they only add 2 uses of Lay on hands, not 4. They increase your effective level for lay on hands by 4, but you get 1/2 level + CHA bonus in lay on hands per day.
Peet
Are we still talking about Bracers of the Merciful Knight? Because now you're confusing me. If you get 2 extra lay on hands, you can cash those in for 1 smite using the oath of vengeance. Where is the other extra smite coming from?
If the Silver Smite Bracelet does add more smites (and I'm pretty sure that it does) then it will always add at least 1 smite but every third level it will add 2 instead (i.e. if you are 3rd level you get one smite, but increasing your level by 4 brings you to 7th which has 3 smites per day). So that's slightly better if you only want smites.
It looks like the Oath of Vengeance combined with Warrior of the Holy Light would be decent.
Warrior of the Holy Light looses the ability to cast spells. While paladins don't get many spells some of them are very powerful, which makes this a bad archetype.
Warrior of the Holy Light looses the ability to cast spells. While paladins don't get many spells some of them are very powerful, which makes this a bad archetype.
Unless you (or your character), doesn't want to mess with spells. Although I would ask my DM to houserule that the Holy Light ability has a separate pool that can be supplemented with LoH, or just has unlimited usage. Losing spells AND having to burn LoH uses to use their replacement ability seems really steep.
Warrior of the Holy Light loses the ability to cast spells. While paladins don't get many spells some of them are very powerful, which makes this a bad archetype.Unless you (or your character), doesn't want to mess with spells. Although I would ask my DM to houserule that the Holy Light ability has a separate pool that can be supplemented with LoH, or just has unlimited usage. Losing spells AND having to burn LoH uses to use their replacement ability seems really steep.
It does make the class simpler, which in my mind is often good. Just as there is a spell-less ranger, there also should be a spell-less paladin. And while you do burn LoH to use the special power, you also get extra LoH to compensate. As an Oath of Vengeance paladin that means you can use the lay on hands in multiple ways, which seems good to me.
The "Holy Light" power is considerably better than most of the lower level paladin spells, and it scales (though admittedly not in ways I'd want it to). By the time you are high level you can always use UMD to use scrolls and wands of paladin spells.
Peet
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For a paladin, don't use two weapons ever (or a heavy shield). It's a trap.
You need a hand free to use your swift action Lay On Hands on yourself. You can do this by taking a hand off your bow or two-handed weapon as a free action, then putting it back on; you can't do this with both hands full of individual weapons.
The swift action healing is made of sex and win and not worth giving up.
In the Heavy Shield description, it says you can't use that hand for anything else because of the weight of the shield. This is clearly meant for anything that adds weight such as a weapon, after all, you are still allowed to wear a spiked gauntlet in that hand. In addition, A shield is strapped to your arm. This is why your shield is not dropped when you are feared, stunned or otherwise forced to drop your items. Since you can "Let Go" of your shield without dropping it, you can use that hand to use Lay on Hands. ALSO, and this is a HUGE "ALSO", The shield has a 15% Arcane Spell Failure Chance!!!!! That means you are allowed to cast a spell with a Heavy Shield and if you cast an arcane spell its a 15% fail chance. Since LoH is a Divine spell it does not suffer the 15% chance penalty.
Recap: 3 valid points from the core rule book that allows you to cast spells while using a heavy shield. 1: Shield is strapped to your arm. 2: Cant carry anything in that hand (hand is free). 3 Stats that arcane spells have a 15% fail chance (Arcane caster can cast spells holding this shield then divine casters will have no problem).
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Shield, Heavy; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A heavy shield is so heavy that you can't use your shield hand for anything else.
The reason you can't use your shield hand for anything else is because the hand is busy carrying the shield. That 15% arcane spell failure chance is for a wizard trying to wear a shield on one arm and cast with the other hand. You can't cast with that hand. The shield's in the way.
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I know it takes up more space, but I made a half-orc paladin, which could alternated two-handed and sword/board until Divine Bond. Then I went for the mount at 5th, and Beast Rider from the ARG at 7th. As I said, it's big, but a rhinoceros was epic in this mostly outdoors campaign with powerful charge. I wanted to PFS it, but I realized just how little space there is in most scenarios, and I would be bad LG even as the Avenger. I got to regain panache as a swashbuckler by stabilizing a guardian and dueling him, and I almost died. Then I Coup de Graced another one, because I couldn't before. It was hilarious.
This needs updated - Fey foundling needs to be the first Paladin feat unless it is not allowed in your campaign and frankly the choice of any other feat is not even close.
Also some of the spells are actually useful in later sources.
