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Chill Touch
School: necromancy; Level: sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S
Range: touch
Targets: creature or creatures touched (up to one/level)
Duration: instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial or Will negates; see text; Spell
Resistance: yesA touch from your hand, which glows with blue energy, disrupts the life force of living creatures. Each touch channels negative energy that deals 1d6 points of damage. The touched creature also takes 1 point of Strength damage unless it makes a successful Fortitude saving throw. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.
An undead creature you touch takes no damage of either sort, but it must make a successful Will saving throw or flee as if panicked for 1d4 rounds + 1 round per caster level.
So, here's the Pathfinder description for Chill Touch. I'm having a hard time getting my head around how exactly this spell works. It lists its targets as up to one creature per level, but it's a touch spell with a duration of "instantaneous." I took a look at the way touch spells work, and this is what the Core Rulebook says:
You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell. If the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action.
First of all, weirdly, this description doesn't explicitly say that you have to roll an attack to touch the opponent. I know you do, and it sort of alludes to it with its talk of critical hits, but it doesn't say it specifically and it certainly doesn't make mention of it in the spell description. Next, it says that some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets, then that you can touch up to 6 willing targets--but they all have to be touched in a single round--then that touching 6 creatures (not necessarily willing) is a full-round action if you can touch targets over multiple rounds (which it just said you couldn't do).
What is going on here? Can you touch any 6 creatures, or do they have to be willing? If you have a caster level of 12, do you have to spend two full-round actions to complete a standard action casting time spell against the maximum number of creatures? What if you have a caster level of 11? Does that mean one full-round and one standard action? Or am I reading too far into this and does it mean you get 6 for free if they're willing, but six take a full-round action if they're unwilling? The other big issue is the spell's duration:
The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might be long-lasting.
How can a spell that comes and goes in an instant allow you to touch multiple targets with a single casting? Should this spell really be read entirely literally, meaning that you make a touch attack against each intended target (up to a maximum of your caster level, even if that's 7 or 8) as a single standard action and the spell is discharged in only that single round?
In other words, if I have a level 7 wizard, surrounded by 7 foes, am I able to spend a single standard action and 7 touch attack rolls to affect all of those foes with this spell? I realize I provoke a lot of attacks of opportunity if I do so. I'm just curious how this all works.
Also, with touch spells, you can cast before moving and then discharge with a touch at the end of the move to avoid provoking attacks, right?
the spell is instantaneous because its effects do not have a speicfic duration.
"You can touch up to 6 willing targets as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell."
Meaning basically if you are surrounded by allies you can touch 6 of them at once. Otherwise you can only touch a single target by making a touch attack. No one is going to be a willing target against chill touch.
Now as for chill touch itself, the answer is simple.
The duration is instantaneous, you immediately have 1/level held charges of the spell. Each time you make a touch attack (or natural/unarmed attack) you can discharge one charge. So a level 6 wizard casts chill touch and on the turn he casts it can make one free touch attack. Each subsequent round he can try to make futher touch attacks untill he has expended all 6 charges of chill touch.
A dragonblooded sorceror on the other hand might take a different route. He might use his claw attacks to deliver his chill touch spell as when you connect with an unarmed or natural attack you can deliver held charges of a touch spell.
Keep in mind if you cast another spell while holding the charges you loose whats left of your chill touch.
Yep, this is badly written, or at least it should be re-edited, probably to have a duration for when your touch attacks run out. Produce flame handles this kinid of thing a lot better, with a duration that is reduced by making a touch attack, until you run out of touch attacks with the spell.
I believe the intent of the spell is you get 1 touch attack per caster level. So Joe the 3rd level necromancer casts chill touch. He gets 3 touch attacks before chill touch runs out. Using chill touch is instantaneous effect, so he just has to connect with it (make a successful melee touch attack). He can crit since its a melee attack, and presumably he does double damage (and perhaps double the strength damage too).
If you had willing targets for chill touch, you would not have to make an attack roll at all, and you could hit up to 6 of them in one action. But that is highly unlikely.
oh and damn, i been ninja'd
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That all makes sense, but the last sentence in the touch spell description, "if the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action," isn't referring to the 6 free willing touches, is it? For instance, I'm a 7th-level wizard. I cast Chill Touch and make a free touch against someone. On my next turn, I spend a full-round action and touch an additional 6 targets, right? Or is it saying the 6 willing creatures only get free touching on a spell that doesn't allow multiple rounds of touching, in which case, the 7th-level wizard is being asked to make 7 separate standard action touches over 7 different turns to get the most of the spell, right? The wizard in question could, however, touch the same target each round, though, right? And does that mean touch spells listed as having only a single target can be used on 6 targets for free as part of one casting, so long as those targets are willing? This is all really confusing, and it seems like it shouldn't be.
That all makes sense, but the last sentence in the touch spell description, "if the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action," isn't referring to the 6 free willing touches, is it? For instance, I'm a 7th-level wizard. I cast Chill Touch and make a free touch against someone. On my next turn, I spend a full-round action and touch an additional 6 targets, right? Or is it saying the 6 willing creatures only get free touching on a spell that doesn't allow multiple rounds of touching, in which case, the 7th-level wizard is being asked to make 7 separate standard action touches over 7 different turns to get the most of the spell, right? The wizard in question could, however, touch the same target each round, though, right? And does that mean touch spells listed as having only a single target can be used on 6 targets for free as part of one casting, so long as those targets are willing? This is all really confusing, and it seems like it shouldn't be.
look at the way the rules for attacks generally go. Allowing a wizard get the equivalent of whirlwind-touch-attack seems a bit much to me. If this were true it would be mentioned under touch attacks. As far my understanding goes, if its an attack, then use your BAB to determine how many you can get.
What I get from this is, "if you want to touch all your friends to give them the benefits, you spend a full round action as part of the casting instead of a standard action."
I am trying to wrap my head around this. So does this mean if the caster steps up into the middle of his 6 melee friends, he can cast one touch range buff and effect them all? that one Cure x Wounds could effect the whole party if they all stood around the cleric while casting? thats seems a bit much.
I am trying to wrap my head around this. So does this mean if the caster steps up into the middle of his 6 melee friends, he can cast one touch range buff and effect them all? that one Cure x Wounds could effect the whole party if they all stood around the cleric while casting? thats seems a bit much.
In the case of Cure Light Wounds (for instance), it only affects 1 target per spell. So you don't gain the ability to affect multiple allies even if they're all around you. The range touch rule just means that if you cast a buff that can affect more than 1 target that you can get up to 6 willing recipients in 1 full round action if they all happen to be within 5 feet of you. I hope that makes sense.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I am trying to wrap my head around this. So does this mean if the caster steps up into the middle of his 6 melee friends, he can cast one touch range buff and effect them all? that one Cure x Wounds could effect the whole party if they all stood around the cleric while casting? thats seems a bit much.
It needs to be a touch spell that affects more than one creature for the passage to be relevant. The best example I can think of is teleport.
Either way, it's not relevant to chill touch, since there is no condition under which it's a beneficial spell for the creature being touched, so no creature should be counted as 'willing.'
The real duration is "infinite until you use up 1 touch/level or cast another spell."
That all makes sense, but the last sentence in the touch spell description, "if the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action," isn't referring to the 6 free willing touches, is it? For instance, I'm a 7th-level wizard. I cast Chill Touch and make a free touch against someone. On my next turn, I spend a full-round action and touch an additional 6 targets, right? Or is it saying the 6 willing creatures only get free touching on a spell that doesn't allow multiple rounds of touching, in which case, the 7th-level wizard is being asked to make 7 separate standard action touches over 7 different turns to get the most of the spell, right? The wizard in question could, however, touch the same target each round, though, right? And does that mean touch spells listed as having only a single target can be used on 6 targets for free as part of one casting, so long as those targets are willing? This is all really confusing, and it seems like it shouldn't be.
the 6 targets is if they are willing. I highly doubt there will be many occassions where you have 6 willing targets for chill touch all adjacent to you. But yes if you have a touch range spell and 6 willing targets adjacent to you, you can touch them all at once. If they are unwilling you have to make individual touch attacks, (or unarmed/natural attacks).
That all makes sense, but the last sentence in the touch spell description, "if the spell allows you to touch targets over multiple rounds, touching 6 creatures is a full-round action," isn't referring to the 6 free willing touches, is it?
To specifically answer the question about the reason for the last sentence...
It's explaining how to handle willing recipients of a multi-touch spell that lasts for more than one round. The preceding sentence only mentions that you can touch up to 6 people with the single cast. The sentence you are confused about is saying that if that same spell can last for greater than a single round, then you can touch up to 6 people each full round action.
I can't think of a single spell like that off the top of my head... however if there was a "Teleporting Touch" spell that allowed you to teleport people by touching them, charging your hand with the magical energies of teleportation... and it lasted for more than a single round... then you could send up to 6 willing people per full round action, or 1 unwilling person per touch attack (if you have iterative attacks, you could do more than one a round).
This is very straightforward.
Unlike most touch attack spells which are as many attempts as you want until you hit once or cast another spell, Chill touch is as many attempts as you want until you hit [caster level] times or cast another spell. Its the only advantage to using a spell that does 1d6 damage and 1 pt of strength damage as opposed to burning hands or shocking grasp: it keeps going.
The touch's EFFECT is what's instantaneous : which means you can't dispel it.
I think what´s confusing the OP is that he is only looking in the Touch Range of the Magic Chapter.
Unfortunately, the rules for Touch Spells/Effects are spread out in multiple areas, and NON-willing targets are described in the Combat Chapter (which ALSO repeats the 6 willing targets/round info found in the Magic Chapter). At the very least, It would be alot easier to typical readers (like the OP) if the Magic write-up on Touch Spells MENTIONED that non-willing targets are dealt with in the Combat Chapter...
To cut to the chase, the spell is relying on the Holding the Charge rules in the Touch Spells in Combat section of the Combat Chapter. (Touch Attacks are also mentioned under ´Armed´ Unarmed Attacks and under a sub-section of the Armor Class section called ´Touch Attacks´ but which is really describing TOuch AC).
For un-willing targets you have the option to A) make 1 touch attack as a Standard Action THAT NEVER PROVOKES, *OR* B) use your Unarmed Strikes/Natural Attacks to ´deliver´ the Touch Charge* noting that each attack provokes an AoO unless the underlying attack (Unarmed Strike / Natural Attack) doesn´t normally provoke (i.e. you have Improved Unarmed Strike). I can´t think of any cases where Natural Attacks provoke AoO´s, but the rules here seem to think those cases DO exist...??? (There also seems to be a wierd case here, where even though you THREATEN with such ´Charged´ Unarmered Strikes (meaning you can take AoO´s with them), as expained in ´Armed´ Unarmed Attacks in the Combat Chapter, such attacks can still provoke AoO´s... i.e. you are only getting some of the benefits of ´Armed´ not all of them... which is especially strange given that fact ISN´T spelled out in the ´Armed´ Unarmed Attacks which the average reader would understand to mean you are Armed for all purposes. )
It´s also somewhat unfortunate that the Touch Spells in Combat section deigns to explain how the (possibly provoking) Unarmed Strike/Natural Attack delivery option functions (i.e. compatable with Full Attacks and Cleaves and Attacks of Opportunity) UNDER the sub-section for Holding the Charge... when not every Touch Spell with multiple targets over multiple rounds NEEDS to Hold the Charge, i.e. because it actually has a duration like Calcific Touch (APG spell).
I´m not exactly sure where that leaves such spells... One can just apply that rule from Holding the Charge even though no Charges are being Held, or one can try and use the phrasing in ´Armed´ Unarmed Attacks to justify delivering Touch Effects with UAS while being considered fully Armed... Though that just introduces a wierd discrepancy re: provoking between Holding the Charge Touch Spells and those that have a Duration.
* the rules never discuss this directly, but PRESUMABLY the Touch Effect triggers on Touch AC and the melee portion does damage on Normal AC, all from the same attack roll. at the very least, that´s a very reasonable way to play it IMHO.
the rules never discuss this directly, but PRESUMABLY the Touch Effect triggers on Touch AC and the melee portion does damage on Normal AC, all from the same attack roll. at the very least, that´s a very reasonable way to play it IMHO.
No, you're making a regular attack. Thats the penalty you pay for trying to sneak in the extra d3+strength : you have to land the blow just like anyone else or the whole thing doesn't count.
If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.
There is no "if your attack would have hit if you hadn't tried to play jacki chan with your shocking grasp" option. Like everything else in D&D its hit or miss.
There is no "if your attack would have hit if you hadn't tried to play jacki chan with your shocking grasp" option. Like everything else in D&D its hit or miss.
As a houserule though, I don't see a problem.
I mean... the d3+str can be blocked by hitting armor in the wrong spot to properly carry through the physical damage.
That same fist that failed to "hit" was crackling with electricity or seething with cold, and if it beat the Touch AC, it did "touch" them. Seems a little strange to deny it.
I would allow this kind of houserule in my games.
With this touch rule can you touch several people with touch of law
No you can't.
The entry says: Touch of Law (Sp): You can touch a willing creature as a
standard action, infusing it....
As opposed to, for example:
Hide from Animals
School abjuration; Level druid 1, ranger 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components S, DF
Range touch
Targets one creature touched/level
....
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ok... but one can imagine a scenario where one "quickly slaps someone lightly on the head Benny Hill style 20 times in 6 seconds." Thus 20 touch attacks were made... and without magic this wouldn't hurt. but if a 20th level mage did it with chill touch it could be deadly... (and typically people aren't willing to let you benny hill slap them either)
"If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges."
Since this thread was necroed already, can anyone tell me where to find the errata that apparently answers this question?
It has not yet appeared in any errata. We're not sure if that means that it WILL be, and it just hasn't come out yet, or what.
(Didn't mean to get this thread necroed when I pointed the issue out.)
ask james jacobs says:
Go to [url=http://Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#18390[/url].
Chill touch essentially gives you a weapon that you can make a number of attacks with equal to your level. It's certainly poorly worded—it probably SHOULD say something more like a duraiton of 1 round/level and that you can make 1 attack each round. Unless what it's REALLY trying to say is that you can make 1 attack per level, so that if you have iterative attacks or haste effects you might be able to make the attack more than 1 time per round.
Pick the one you like better if you're the GM. If you're a player, ask your GM. If you're a player in Pathfinder Society who gets caught up on these rules, prepare burning hands or shocking grasp instead. :P
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Here's an even newer one:
Chill touch is a weird spell. The touch attacks it grants do not function as "held charges." They don't disappear if you cast another spell, and the spell is pretty vague on how long the effects last—in theory, you could cast the spell on a Tuesday and still have some touches left over on Friday, for example, as long as you haven't made more touches than your level. Re-casting the spell when you still have charges left doesn't add to the existing charges—it merely resets your total available touches to its maximum.
Elemental Touch + Chill Touch + Shocking Grasp is a heck of a combo now. Even without Spellstrike!
Hopefully when the mythical errata happens, it's explained if/how this works in combination with other touches and spells.
I suspect James is saying that Chill Touch is supposed to function like Produce Flame, granting you a special attack that resolves against touch AC, rather than being a real touch spell.
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I understand how Chill Touch with it effectivly having multiple charges works. Here's my question, and this goes for ANY spell with an attack roll that does ability damage.
On a Critical Hit for the attack roll, is the Strength damage doubled as well? So would it do 2d6 negitive energy damage and 2 Strength Damage on a failed fort save?
Chill touch leaves you "holding a charge".
Casting another spell while "holding a charge" dissipates the charge.
Somebody cast *Raise Dead*.... and I thought Chill Touch was to make the undead go away.
Chill Touch is written with "Range Touch", yet the description states "A touch from your hand, which glows with blue energy, disrupts the life force of living creatures." Most spells with this range affect the creature(s) touched. However, the spell actually affects you,
Under Touch Spells in Combat it states:
Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject.
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Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.
So clearly, the first thing you touch gets the effect of the spell. Except the spell affects you.
As the spell is instantaneous, it is discharged upon affecting you, which makes the Holding the Charge not applicable. Except everyone treats the effect of the spell (the allowed touches) as though it is the spell itself to get dispelled by casting another spell.This spell needs to be better edited to be clear how it works.
/cevah