Spell effect: Use-activated + Cure Light Wounds = ???


Rules Questions


What does a "Spell effect: Use-activated" weapon with the spell "Cure Light Wounds" do?

It seems to me that it would cause damage as a regular weapon and also cast CLW on the target. This would be a handy weapon against the undead and also a source of unlimited healing for the living, provided that the weapon does less than 1d8+x damage. The cost of enchanting such a weapon is 2000gp (spell level 1 x caster level 1 x 2000gp) since spell effects are not enhancement bonuses. Furthermore, anyone could use it since "use-activated spell effects" don't require any special spell lists.

Anyway, my questions are, is that correct? Does it break some unwritten rule? Does it break the spirit of the rules?

Sorry if this has already been answered, I couldn't find it using the search function or with the google site: command.


BossOfEarth wrote:

What does a "Spell effect: Use-activated" weapon with the spell "Cure Light Wounds" do?

It seems to me that it would cause damage as a regular weapon and also cast CLW on the target. This would be a handy weapon against the undead and also a source of unlimited healing for the living, provided that the weapon does less than 1d8+x damage. The cost of enchanting such a weapon is 2000gp (spell level 1 x caster level 1 x 2000gp) since spell effects are not enhancement bonuses. Furthermore, anyone could use it since "use-activated spell effects" don't require any special spell lists.

Anyway, my questions are, is that correct? Does it break some unwritten rule? Does it break the spirit of the rules?

Sorry if this has already been answered, I couldn't find it using the search function or with the google site: command.

We used to add something like that onto a home-brew Holy Avenger where the DM put "Heal 2X/Day" into the blade, making it truly an awesome weapon. As long as it allows the paladin or fighter to cast it on himself I think it's fine. It's no different that having a potion of CLW - still a standard action to activate. It might not be technically anywhere easily to access but remember it's your game.


BossOfEarth wrote:

What does a "Spell effect: Use-activated" weapon with the spell "Cure Light Wounds" do?

It seems to me that it would cause damage as a regular weapon and also cast CLW on the target. This would be a handy weapon against the undead and also a source of unlimited healing for the living, provided that the weapon does less than 1d8+x damage. The cost of enchanting such a weapon is 2000gp (spell level 1 x caster level 1 x 2000gp) since spell effects are not enhancement bonuses. Furthermore, anyone could use it since "use-activated spell effects" don't require any special spell lists.

Anyway, my questions are, is that correct? Does it break some unwritten rule? Does it break the spirit of the rules?

Personally, I don't like the idea of unlimited use magic items in general so I probably wouldn't allow this weapon; likewise, I wouldn't allow a weapon that casts Shocking Grasp every time it hits (who would ever buy a Shocking weapon otherwise?).

Now if it had 50 charges, or 5 uses per day, that might be a different matter.


Back in second, I think in one of the Undermountain boxed sets there were arrows of healing. It was a one shot/one use deal that did damage like a normal arrow (I'm pretty sure you could state you weren't adding damage from sepcialization/strength) that healed whoever you shot for 2-3d8. It was a neat idea, but by the time we found them even 3d8 wasn't worth it, let alone 3d8-1d8...

Liberty's Edge

Well, there's precedent for weapons requiring an enhancement bonus before they can have any other ability, so let's start with the assumption of a +1 longsword as the base (price 2315gp).

A +1 weapon requires the caster level to be at least 3, while cure light wounds only requires a caster level of 1. You always use the higher CL, so it's going to be 3. With spell level x CL x 2000gp, that gives you a result of 6000gp.

Together with the base item, you're looking at 8315gp. That's a +1 longsword that deals an extra 1d8+3 damage to undead, who get a will save (DC 11) to halve that extra damage.

Now, there are some fiddly bits that go along with this...for example, can you use it on yourself as a source of healing? By the guidelines, a use-activated CLW item would cost spell level(1) x CL(1) x 2000gp x 2(for no body slot use) = 4000gp. For that same price, you could get wands of CLW totalling ~267 charges, so I wouldn't be too worried about that item. (Wait, I take that back...that item could cause problems at that price...I think I'd add an X uses/day function to it...look at the healing belt as an example)

If you're going to be able to use it to heal without attacking, I'd up the price of the sword quite a bit, or make it use a number of uses per day or something.

The math on this item is going to be very hard to pin down, since you're essentially turning a weapon into a wand/wondrous item.

Note that a +1 merciful longsword has the same price and spell requirements as the sword I sketched out above.
I'd say that "1d8+1, plus 1d8+3 positive energy (will half, DC11)" is comparable to "1d8+1+1d6, all nonlethal".

If you let it be activated without stabbing something, I'd increase the price, and look at it as a wondrous item as well, which brings the price up to 12,000gp-16,000gp, which may or may not be worth it...


Jagyr Ebonwood wrote:

Now, there are some fiddly bits that go along with this...for example, can you use it on yourself as a source of healing? By the guidelines, a use-activated CLW item would cost spell level(1) x CL(1) x 2000gp x 2(for no body slot use) = 4000gp. For that same price, you could get wands of CLW totalling ~267 charges, so I wouldn't be too worried about that item. (Wait, I take that back...that item could cause problems at that price...I think I'd add an X uses/day function to it...look at the healing belt as an example)

ROTFL!

The old sword of healing! Give it to the 6 STR mage and have him start wacking everyone to heal them!

I miss 1st Ed sometimes...


Mirror, Mirror wrote:
Jagyr Ebonwood wrote:

Now, there are some fiddly bits that go along with this...for example, can you use it on yourself as a source of healing? By the guidelines, a use-activated CLW item would cost spell level(1) x CL(1) x 2000gp x 2(for no body slot use) = 4000gp. For that same price, you could get wands of CLW totalling ~267 charges, so I wouldn't be too worried about that item. (Wait, I take that back...that item could cause problems at that price...I think I'd add an X uses/day function to it...look at the healing belt as an example)

ROTFL!

The old sword of healing! Give it to the 6 STR mage and have him start wacking everyone to heal them!

I miss 1st Ed sometimes...

So do I. :-)

I like the math above, and it sounds roughly right - I think the poster is talking about an item that heals, not does damage to undead. I would probably make it a CLW 3Xs per day type of weapon on top of the +1 etc.


With infinite-use magic items, you really must be careful, or you get monstrosities like the infamous use-activated Bow of True Strike. "Never miss again (except on a one)" is worth considerably more than +3,000g, methinks. And 2,000g for the infinite-use bauble of Cure Light Wounds that'll keep the party patched up even into epic levels is equally game-breaking.

And as a general rule, a 'use' is a standard action unto itself. Not a part of another action. You can have a use-activated sword of Cure Light Wounds, but it's a standard action to use the CLW effect, meaning you can heal with it or attack with it. Not both.

When you start getting into the realm of infinite-use items, you have to be careful, which is why there are no magic item creation rules; only guidelines for approximation. Some spells and effects are far more powerful and are worth far more than the pricing guidelines would suggest.

Liberty's Edge

Viletta Vadim wrote:
And as a general rule, a 'use' is a standard action unto itself. Not a part of another action. You can have a use-activated sword of Cure Light Wounds, but it's a standard action to use the CLW effect, meaning you can heal with it or attack with it. Not both.

I considered that myself when I was composing the post above.

CLW has a standard action to cast, but you can make a touch attack as part of the casting. I figured the same thing would apply to a CLW item.

Saradoc wrote:
I like the math above, and it sounds roughly right - I think the poster is talking about an item that heals, not does damage to undead.

Same thing. ;-P He said it would be "a handy weapon against the undead and also a source of unlimited healing for the living". Point is, it casts CLW on those it hits.

Actually, not quite true. You'd have to use a standard action to activate it, so you provoke an AoO and you only get one attack that round.


Mirror, Mirror wrote:

ROTFL!

The old sword of healing! Give it to the 6 STR mage and have him start wacking everyone to heal them!

I miss 1st Ed sometimes...

"Attack" friendlies using non-lethal damage. The CLW will cure the same amount of lethal and non-lethal damage, so that will double your pleasure!

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