Smite evil and non-weapon attacks


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

From PRD:

Quote:
Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, a paladin can call out to the powers of good to aid her in her struggle against evil. As a swift action, the paladin chooses one target within sight to smite. If this target is evil, the paladin adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her paladin level to all damage rolls made against the target of her smite.

Emphasis mine.

So, I see three possibilites for it:
1) Smite evil extra damage is applied to all types of damage rolls (for instance, spells).
2) Only damage rolls that need an attack roll to succed (offensive version of lay on hands, touch spells) get the extra damage.
3) Only weapon damage rolls benefit. What about splash weapons?

Also, is the extra damage the same type as its source? If a paladin throws an alchemist's fire against a target of smite evil, the extra damage is fire damage (relevant against incorporeal foes)?

What do you think? Sorry if this has been brought up before.
Zairos.

Liberty's Edge

Interesting question.

If it were my campaign, I'd narrow it down to instances that need an attack roll to succeed. Most of the divine spells aren't damage dealers anyway. Offensive versions of the cure spells and lay on hands count.

I'd rule that splash weapons count, as the image of a righteous paladin smashing a bottle of holy water over a demon's face is made of win. In the case of the alchemist's fire, I'd say the alch. fire deals fire damage while the damage from smite evil is positive energy damage.


I do not know what the official ruling would be, but I have always considered that smiting needed direct physical contact for it to work, whether this is through a weapon you are holding or just your hand. I always thought you were channeling this extra damage through the direct contact and I can't see that working with any kind of ranged attack or anything non-offensive.

As for damage, I always thought the smite evil damage was holy/positive in nature and never any other element or non-elemental.


Enevhar Aldarion wrote:

I do not know what the official ruling would be, but I have always considered that smiting needed direct physical contact for it to work, whether this is through a weapon you are holding or just your hand. I always thought you were channeling this extra damage through the direct contact and I can't see that working with any kind of ranged attack or anything non-offensive.

As for damage, I always thought the smite evil damage was holy/positive in nature and never any other element or non-elemental.

Smite evil works with ranged attacks in Pathfinder; it explicitly did not in 3.5.


Zurai wrote:
Enevhar Aldarion wrote:

I do not know what the official ruling would be, but I have always considered that smiting needed direct physical contact for it to work, whether this is through a weapon you are holding or just your hand. I always thought you were channeling this extra damage through the direct contact and I can't see that working with any kind of ranged attack or anything non-offensive.

As for damage, I always thought the smite evil damage was holy/positive in nature and never any other element or non-elemental.

Smite evil works with ranged attacks in Pathfinder; it explicitly did not in 3.5.

Ah, so time to add another house rule for when that comes up in a home game the first time, as I do not like that. But it is good to know for PFS play and such.


I like that Smite now applies to ranged attacks. But then I love the image of the Sacred Archer raining divine wrath from his bow.

While I am not crazy about it, I can see Smite adding to the damage of spells.I would not rule it as Postive Energy myself, I would rule it as Divine Damage.

-Weylin

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Zairos wrote:

1) Smite evil extra damage is applied to all types of damage rolls (for instance, spells).

2) Only damage rolls that need an attack roll to succed (offensive version of lay on hands, touch spells) get the extra damage.
3) Only weapon damage rolls benefit. What about splash weapons?
4) Also, is the extra damage the same type as its source? If a paladin throws an alchemist's fire against a target of smite evil, the extra damage is fire damage (relevant against incorporeal foes)?

1) Yes

2) Ask your DM, it isn't clear in the RAW. Possibly Yes.

3) Splash yes, but not restricted to weapon rolls.

4) Yes, same type.


Darkeyes777 wrote:

If it were my campaign, I'd narrow it down to instances that need an attack roll to succeed. Most of the divine spells aren't damage dealers anyway. Offensive versions of the cure spells and lay on hands count.

I'd rule that splash weapons count, as the image of a righteous paladin smashing a bottle of holy water over a demon's face is made of win. In the case of the alchemist's fire, I'd say the alch. fire deals fire damage while the damage from smite evil is positive energy damage.

That's exactly how I had supposed it would work, including the positive energy type associated with the smite evil. ^^

Weylin wrote:
While I am not crazy about it, I can see Smite adding to the damage of spells.I would not rule it as Postive Energy myself, I would rule it as Divine Damage.

Divine damage? I'm not familiar with it, is it a new damage type?

James Risner wrote:
1) Yes

The problem I see with this is about "multiple hits" spells. In this case, a character smiting evil and casting magic missiles at 9th caster level (maybe with UMD and a wand) would apply the damage to each missile or only once?

Zairos.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Zairos wrote:
character smiting evil and casting magic missiles at 9th caster level (maybe with UMD and a wand) would apply the damage to each missile or only once?

Just written (and as was the case in 3.5), the bonus should be single (once) only.

In other words when applying all the damage to a single target, it is one damage roll.

3.5 FAQ/Sage Advice iirc had an answer related to Fell Drain where all multi target spells only applied once to each target.


Zairos wrote:


Weylin wrote:
While I am not crazy about it, I can see Smite adding to the damage of spells.I would not rule it as Postive Energy myself, I would rule it as Divine Damage.

Divine damage? I'm not familiar with it, is it a new damage type?

Zairos.

Read the description of Flame Strike: "Half the damage is fire damage, but the other half results directly from divine power and is therefore not subject to being reduced by resistance to fire-based attacks."

-Weylin


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Zairos wrote:

So, I see three possibilities for it:

1) Smite evil extra damage is applied to all types of damage rolls (for instance, spells).
2) Only damage rolls that need an attack roll to succeed (offensive version of lay on hands, touch spells) get the extra damage.
3) Only weapon damage rolls benefit. What about splash weapons?

#2 for me - the attack bonus and damage bonus are included in the same sentence. Doesn't make much sense to me to separate them. I like the idea of using Erastil's electric arrow (spell from Gods & Magic) to smite with :)

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