| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I was wondering about how these feats work together, if at all...
The Shield Slam gives you a free Bull Rush attempt, substituting your attack roll with the maneuver check. It's this line that gives me the hick-ups. Will my two feats of Impr. and Greater Bull Rush help there at all? I gather that the bonuses wont help me in my ability to hit, but the end result as in how far back they are pushed might be affected, or? Please noble brilliant minds out there, help prevent my brain from turning into mush... :-) (Some will claim it's too late for that, but don't listen to them)
I'm aware that this question has been posted before Here but how one goes about handling it wasn't touched.
Thanks!
By RAW, they don't stack. Shield Slam and Greater Bull Rush are a part of seperate feat trees, and Improved and Greater Bull Rush give you a bonus on checks to bull rush. Shield Slam says you substitute an attack roll for the check. No check means no benefit from the feat.
Making them stack would actually be kind of weird, because the same attack roll that hits the baddie for damage also serves as the bull rush... so would you apply the check bonuses to the initial attack roll? Would you make the attack roll, then increase the roll by four after working the attack out for the purposes of working out the bull rush?
A GM comfortable with messing with the rules might be able to find an eloquent way to bring these two feat chains together, but they pretty clearly aren't designed to stack at all by RAW.
I'm aware that they are indeed part of seperate feat trees... The only (.. (I'm hesitant to use the word) sensible way to use the two feats together would be if you only applied the bonus from the bull rush feats to the result of the bull rush, not (of course) to see if you hit the poor sod. But I'm having trouble coming to grips with either approaches....
I'm aware that they are indeed part of seperate feat trees... The only (.. (I'm hesitant to use the word) sensible way to use the two feats together would be if you only applied the bonus from the bull rush feats to the result of the bull rush, not (of course) to see if you hit the poor sod. But I'm having trouble coming to grips with either approaches....
You get a free bull rush attempt with shield slam. If you take feats to improve bull rush they will apply when you bull rush.
edit: You're using your attack roll so you wouldn't get a bonus from the feats to do the manuever, but if you took greater it would draw AoO's from ally's.
Except your 'free bull rush' is the attack roll you just made with the shield. You don't make a bull rush check at any point.
If a GM were to rule that they stacked, the best way would be to apply the bonuses to the attack roll after the attack is resolved, but that might seem a little clunky to some, and it's not RAW.
You substitute your attack roll for a bukll rush atempt, so, yes, you do stack any bonus u do have to your CMB for Bull Rush.
The Shield Slam gives you a free Bull Rush attempt, substituting your attack roll with the maneuver check. It's this line that gives me the hick-ups. Will my two feats of Impr. and Greater Bull Rush help there at all? I !
There is no problem with the three feats combining.
The bull rush feats each add a +2 bonus to combat maneuvers to bull rush.
You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to bull
rush a foe.
In addition, you receive a +2 bonus on checks made to bull
rush a foe.
Any opponents hit by your shield bash are also
hit with a free bull rush attack, substituting your attack
roll for the combat maneuver check (see Chapter 8).
Nothing in these feats exclude the bonuses from applying.
E.g. If you use your shield bash and hit the opponent at AC 22, the same enemy is affacted by a bull rush at CMD 26.
Thank you all for your input.
I think Grandfather sums up my conclusion on how to utilize these feats.
Makes a lot of sense to me now... :-)