War Trained Horses in Bestiary?


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

ok...i was making a Cavalier NPC playtest. i began to stat up his mount when i realized under druid animal companions, the advanced horse section says special ability: war trained (see Pathfinder Bestiary)

i looked, i did not see anything. What exactly is this referring to in the bestiary? I get that the animal does not receive the normal penalties in combat, but what does this has to do with the bestiary? is there some other special ability i missed.

thanx in advance.


maybe take a look at combat training under Handle Animal?

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

I asked about this in another thread, and it seems that other than teaching the appropriate tricks, the only change in having a combat trained horse is that it removes the docile trait and allows it to attack better with its hooves.

I think if you want to simulate the previous editions war horse, the best way to do it is advance the horse a HD.


couldnt you just use the previous editions warhorse? isnt it backwards compatable?

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

that would work also

Dark Archive

well...thats what i figured. thanx.

i just don't know why they listed it in the core rulebook as such.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DragonBringerX wrote:

well...thats what i figured. thanx.

i just don't know why they listed it in the core rulebook as such.

Well, there's more to it than that unfortunately, as I just ran into the same thing. Under the description of the "Animal" type in Appendix 2 of the Bestiary, it say "Proficient with no armor unless trained for war". So that implies that War Trained confers some kind of armor proficiency at the very least.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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War trained is actually detailed in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook under the description of "Handle Animal," on page 98. Of course, there it's called "Combat Training." It's one of the "general purpose" trainings you can give an animal. As detailed on page 177 of the Bestiary, horses in particular gain a special benefit once they're combat trained—their hooves are from that point treated as primary weapons, not secondary ones.

In any case, once the Cavalier goes to print, the language in the class about "war trained" will be cleaned up.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:

War trained is actually detailed in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook under the description of "Handle Animal," on page 98. Of course, there it's called "Combat Training." It's one of the "general purpose" trainings you can give an animal. As detailed on page 177 of the Bestiary, horses in particular gain a special benefit once they're combat trained—their hooves are from that point treated as primary weapons, not secondary ones.

In any case, once the Cavalier goes to print, the language in the class about "war trained" will be cleaned up.

Does war trained give any armor proficiencies? As that is what is implied by the Animal Type entry in the bestiary. Also, it seems kind of silly to have war-trained as the ability gained for horse companions at 4th level, since there's no reason that a 1st level character wouldn't train their companion right away, if not start with them trained for combat already. And if for some reason a cavalier (or other class with an animal companion) didn't train their mount for combat with handle animal, it seems strange that their mount would suddenly develop this training at 4th level. Also, if war trained is just the "combat training" under handle animal, that means that at 4th level the horse companion loses all of it's previously learned tricks and has them all replaced by the "combat training" trick set. Obviously this is not the intent, but I think it's worth errata-ing since their are three core classes in the core book that potentially have to deal with this (the paladin in particular) and which by the book are looking at an ability that either doesn't exist, or one that is not only pointless when gained (and for an animal companion to start without) but is actually detrimental.


While on this topic, I am also generating a Cavalier, and I noticed that the stats for a Horse under the Druid Companion and the Horse in the Bestiary are different. Stats are different and feats are different.

Which should I use?

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Robert Peterson 115 wrote:

While on this topic, I am also generating a Cavalier, and I noticed that the stats for a Horse under the Druid Companion and the Horse in the Bestiary are different. Stats are different and feats are different.

Which should I use?

Animal companions use their own rules subset and stats. You should never use the bestiary stats for an animal companion (or in the case of a paladin or cavalier, for a mount.) Use the animal companion stats. Feats are open based on your animal companion's HD, but I often try to pick some that match the animal to make it feel more like the animal type that is is (such as picking Run for horses).


Ah, but not all horses are runners. A heavy draft horse wouldn't have run.

Sovereign Court

James Jacobs wrote:

War trained is actually detailed in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook under the description of "Handle Animal," on page 98. Of course, there it's called "Combat Training." It's one of the "general purpose" trainings you can give an animal. As detailed on page 177 of the Bestiary, horses in particular gain a special benefit once they're combat trained—their hooves are from that point treated as primary weapons, not secondary ones.

In any case, once the Cavalier goes to print, the language in the class about "war trained" will be cleaned up.

The Cavalier's in print, and the cavalier's 'bonus' feat is still called out, although as a combat trained horse by these rules they have all three armour profs automatically anyway, so calling it out as a bonus just isn't accurate. Is this going to be errated or resolved in any way soon?

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:
The Cavalier's in print, and the cavalier's 'bonus' feat is still called out, although as a combat trained horse by these rules they have all three armour profs automatically anyway, so calling it out as a bonus just isn't accurate. Is this going to be errated or resolved in any way soon?

Emphasis mine.

IMHO, the bolded part is a common but incorrect interpretation of the Animal trait "Proficient with no armor unless trained for war." in the Bestiary.

The opposite of the above sentence is that an animal trained for war can be proficient with an armor (ie, it is a prerequisite for the animal taking the Armor Proficiency feats).

It might also mean that an animal trained for war is proficient with AN armor (most likely Light Armor, since it is the prerequisite for the other Armor Proficiencies), thus giving it a free feat. However, I do not believe that such is the case, as there is no such trait for the Magical Beast type (which also has some nice possible mounts in it). And I see zero reason why an animal would have such a free feat over a magical beast.

And it definitely does not mean that an animal trained for war is proficient with ALL armors.


after going thru above posts i see you have to use the druid's 'horse' entry...vice the beastiary's with the simple advanced template.
so now i've a question on the druids animal companion table 3-8.
the cavalier's mount is always considered to be combat trained and begins play with the lt armor feat. I'm assuming these are free feats and those allocated on table 3-8 are additional.
WRT tricks, if, under handle animal a mount can learn a single general pupose, in this case combat training, in lieu of individual tricks, does the mount still get the bonus tricks?

Grand Lodge

arlic wrote:
the cavalier's mount is always considered to be combat trained and begins play with the lt armor feat. I'm assuming these are free feats and those allocated on table 3-8 are additional.

Combat training is a general purpose under the Handle Animal skill. edit: It gets Light Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat explicitly - bonus feats are free and additional to those a creature gets for its hit dice.

arlic wrote:
WRT tricks, if, under handle animal a mount can learn a single general pupose, in this case combat training, in lieu of individual tricks, does the mount still get the bonus tricks?

When a mount is combat trained, it knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard and heel. If it gains combat training, these replace all previous purposes and tricks that it knew. An animal companion's bonus tricks add to these. At first level, the cavalier's mount knows these six tricks plus one trick of the cavalier's choice, but can't learn any more tricks.


The FAQ for the Core Rulebook addresses Combat Trained:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy88yj/faq#v5748eaic9ne7

Quote:

Does training an animal using Handle Animal to be Combat Trained (pg 98 in the Core Rulebook) grant it Light Armor Proficiency?

No, using Handle Animal to train an animal, or mount, in this way does not grant it a free bonus feat. It is not unreasonable, however to assume that an animal specifically designed to be ridden (such as a horse or dog) could be purchased with Light Armor Proficiency as one of its feats (swapping out Endurance or Skill Focus respectively) for the same cost. (JMB, 10/21/10)

–Jason Bulmahn (10/21/10)

No bonus feats.

Grand Lodge

reefwood wrote:

The FAQ for the Core Rulebook addresses Combat Trained:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy88yj/faq#v5748eaic9ne7

Quote:

Does training an animal using Handle Animal to be Combat Trained (pg 98 in the Core Rulebook) grant it Light Armor Proficiency?

No, using Handle Animal to train an animal, or mount, in this way does not grant it a free bonus feat. It is not unreasonable, however to assume that an animal specifically designed to be ridden (such as a horse or dog) could be purchased with Light Armor Proficiency as one of its feats (swapping out Endurance or Skill Focus respectively) for the same cost. (JMB, 10/21/10)

–Jason Bulmahn (10/21/10)

No bonus feats.

I agree, but the cavalier's mount also "begins play with Light Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat" as a separate benefit of the Mount ability.

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