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(Complete Arcane pg11)
After reading multiple threads on Warmage Pathfinder conversions here is my boiled down proposal for the most faithful conversion with least changes to the class.
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On the surface it might look substantially different to a 3.5e Warmage but rest assured minimal new features have been added while existing features are slightly reworked to be more playable/flexible/customisable - as is the Pathfinder way.
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Please comment with any arguments for or against these refinements before I format it as a beautifully presented PDF for people to download and start using in their Pathfinder games.
BAB: from 1/2 (Wizard) to 3/4 (Cleric)
HD: from d6 to d8Class Skills
The warmage’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points per level: 2 + Int modifier.
Spell Casting: Intelligence replaces Charisma as the spell casting stat.
This reduces mad and allows Intelligence to benefit both Warmage Edge and Spell casting; and skill points. As many have pointed out, Int is also a thematically more appropriate casting stat than Charisma for the Warmage class.
Cantrips: A Warmage knows all cantrips listed on the Warmage spell list (PHB II pg90). These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any spell slots and may be used again.
Advanced Learning (Ex): At 3rd a warmage can add a new spell to his list, representing the result of personal study and experimentation. The spell must be a sorcerer/wizard spell, but it can be from any school, and of a level no higher than that of the highest-level spell the warmage already knows. Once a new spell is selected, it is forever added to that warmage’s spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on the warmage’s list.
For every 2 warmage levels beyond 3rd level the warmage adds one additional sorcerer/wizard spell to his spell list, up to the highest-level spell that he can cast.
Footnote: This is a merge of Advanced Learning & Eclectic Learning Warmage expanded class feature (PHB II pg67). This refinement effectively adds one sorcerer/wizard spell of any school to each spell level in the warmage's spell list. It grants the class a small amount of much needed flexibility while still limiting it to the blaster role. It also overcomes the need to revise/expand the spell list each time a new source book is released.
Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Warmage's are proficient with all simple weapons, light armour, and light shields.
At 6th level, a warmage gains proficiency with medium armour (see Armoured Mage, below).
At 10th level, a warmage gains proficiency with heavy shields (see Armoured Mage, below).
At 14th level, a warmage gains proficiency with heavy armour (see Armoured Mage, below).
Armoured Mage (Ex): Normally, armour of any type interferes with an arcane spellcaster’s gestures, which can cause spells to fail if those spells have a somatic component. A warmage’s limited focus and specialized training, however, allows you to avoid arcane spell failure so long as you stick to light armour and light shields. This training does not extend to medium or heavy armours, nor to heavy shields. This ability does not apply to spells gained from a different spellcasting class.
At 6th level, you learn to use medium armour with no chance of arcane spell failure.
At 10th level, you learn to use a heavy shield with no chance of arcane spell failure.
At 14th level, you learn to use heavy armour with no chance of arcane spell failure.
Footnote: Armoured Mage ability has been reviewed in conjunction with the Duskblade (PHB II pg20). Casting arcane spells in heavy armour with no ASF is no big deal in Pathfinder. If the Warmage Armoured Mage class feature was limited to Medium Armour, players would just take Heavy Armour Proficiency feat and wear Mithral Fullplate. Pathfinder's Arcane Armour Training and Arcane Armour Mastery feats also steal thunder from the warmage and duskblade Armoured Mage abilities, albeit at the cost of two feats and a swift action.
Bonus Feat
At 4th, 8th, 12th and 16th level, a warmage gains a bonus feat. At each such opportunity you select one Sudden Metamagic Feat that the warmage meets the prerequisites for. These bonus feats are in addition to the feats that a character of any class gets from advancing levels. A warmage is not limited to Sudden Metamagic Feats when choosing those feats. Sudden Metamagic Feats are listed in 3.5e Complete Arcane pg75.
Sudden Quicken
At 20th level a warmage gains Sudden Quicken as a bonus feat. The warmage need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for this feat.
LEVEL ABILITY
01. Armoured Mage (light), Cantrips, Warmage Edge
02.
03. Advanced Learning
04. Bonus Feat
05. Advanced Learning
06. Armoured Mage (medium)
07. Advanced Learning
08. Bonus Feat
09. Advanced Learning
10. Armoured Mage (heavy shield)
11. Advanced Learning
12. Bonus Feat
13. Advanced Learning
14. Armoured Mage (heavy)
15. Advanced Learning
16. Bonus Feat
17. Advanced Learning
18.
19. Advanced Learning
20. Sudden Quicken
Update: If you compare all aspects of proposed Warmage to Cleric it is already weaker than the Pathfinder Cleric; which is preferred. Still, removing Armoured Mage (heavy) is an easy option if more feedback follows that course. It makes it even closer to the original Warmage. I'd leave Armoured Mage (heavy shield) intact which is a slight improvement to warmage and still in line with the Duskblade.
It makes sense to take Armoured Mage (heavy) out.
After a high-level build test and further review we leave Chr as prime spell casting stat and Int to Warmage Edge (i.e. unchanged from original Warmage).
Add Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at 1st level (as per Pathfinder Sorcerer).
Now comparing the Pathfinder Warmage conversion with Pathfinder Sorcerer they are pleasingly balanced and the Warmage is sufficiently different to a Sorcerer with Arcane Bloodline (thus making both viable as seperate player options). I'm tempted to call the Warmage conversion perfect and done. Fellow DMs would you use or allow this conversion in your Pathfinder games?
Silke's is similar to what I would probably have done with it. I think that Cleric HD/BAB is a given, considering that the class already gets armor and should be considered tougher than a wizard or sorcerer.
I would however limit the Bonus Feats to be either from the Wizard or Fighter Bonus feat lists.
I have reservations about the Sudden feats though. They lean heavily toward on "I sudden maximize and empower a fireball and win one encounter a day" problem. I'd prefer to implement a point system whereby Warmages could reduce a spell's level by a certain number of points that they earn each level, similar to barbarian rage points or bardic music rounds.
For example, the warmage would get, say two 'Spell Power' points per level, and could use these to reduce metamagic spell level increases on a 1 to 1 basis.
If you went with the feature though, you'd have to give them bonus feats with it, which my necessitate giving them bonus feats earlier.
Thanks for replying Bikis, you are correct that sudden maximised, sudden empowed <insert spell of choice> with warmage Edge can lead to winning one encounter per day. However for all remaining encounters that day the warmage is out of Sudden damaging feats so a wily DM can catch the warmage out simply by using multiple encounters or even a single encounter where additional (formerly unseen) opponents enter the encounter on later rounds. In any event the issue is not with warmage, it’s with sudden feats.
Another conversion design goal for the warmage class is minimum work. To allow warmages in Pathfinder campaigns in the first place assumes you are using Complete Arcane material hence the use of Sudden Metamagic feats and the warmage’s existing spell list (many of which don’t appear in Pathfinder Core Rules – which could be an intellectual property thing). So as converted, it’s a great result if the DM is allowing Complete Arcane.
Now if we were to take it MUCH further and remove Sudden metamagic feats and revise the entire spell list to only those that appear in Pathfinder Core Rules then your Bonus Feats suggestion is entirely valid. Of course by the time our conversion had progressed this far you wouldn’t bother. Some new class would be created…enter Sorcerer with Arcane Bloodline…and there’d be no need for the warmage class at all. So I guess it depends on how much material you are allowing. I’ve written this warmage conversion on the basis that its related material from Complete Arcane is made available to players.
One conversion suggestion for Pathfinder may be that Sudden Feats require a swift action to use, thus limiting their application to one feat per round. However sudden feats are already REALLY limited by one use per day and you cannot take the same feat multiple times. So if forum consensus is that Sudden Feats need some kind of rule preventing them from stacking then I’d push for upping their usage to say three uses per day each. Regardless, at high level I could still cast a spell with Sudden Maximise and ordinary Empower Spell as a full attack action thus would limiting stacking of Sudden feats really achieve much? It’s probable that no change to sudden feats is required.
What do people think? Are any changes needed to use Sudden feats in Pathfinder?
A cabal of DMs has met and determined that changing spell casting stat from Chr to Int is the go and changing Warmage Edge from Int bonus to "add half your warmage level to damage (minimum +1)".
I can't argue with the change to warmage edge mechanic - it's obviously a superior design in that it prevents PCs with +5 Int bonus to damage at 1st level and rewards continual advancement in the warmage class, which is ideal.
The conversion is now ready for write up into a nicely formatted PDF.
While writing the PDF for Pathfinder warmage conversion it's hard to ignore converting Warmage Edge & Sudden Metamagic feats. So after comparing Arcane Strike and reviewing optimisation boards for methods players use to min-max the warmage, here are planned refinements for the conversion. Again the emphasis is on minimum changes - think of it as errata.
Original feat
EXTRA EDGE
Your ability to deal spell damage is particularly striking.
Prerequisite: Warmage level 4th.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on your warmage edge, plus an additional +1 bonus per four warmage levels. For instance, an 8th-level warmage with 18 Intelligence gets a +7 bonus on the damage dealt by any spell that deals hit point damage.
Normal: A character’s warmage edge is equal to his Intelligence modifier.
Pathfinder conversion
EXTRA EDGE
Your ability to deal spell damage is particularly striking.
Prerequisite: Warmage edge class feature.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on your warmage edge damage, plus an additional +1 bonus per five warmage levels to a maximum of +5 at 20th level. For instance, a 10th-level warmage with warmage edge gets a +7 bonus on the damage dealt by any warmage spell that deals hit point damage.
Normal: A character’s warmage edge is equal to half his warmage class level (minimum +1).
Note that Extra Edge is actually a fairly weak feat. You’ll get much more value (damage) from feats such as Empower Spell.
Sudden Metamagic feats warrant small refinement...
SUDDEN MAXIMIZE [METAMAGIC] & SUDDEN EMPOWER [METAMAGIC]
Prerequisite: Any metamagic feat.
to
Prerequisite: Any sudden metamagic feat.SUDDEN QUICKEN [METAMAGIC]
Prerequisites: Quicken Spell, Sudden Empower, Sudden
Extend, Sudden Maximize, Sudden Silent, Sudden Still.
to
Prerequisite: Any five sudden metamagic feats.
Please post your comments so that they may be considered before the PDF is completed.
PDF is up for Warmage Pathfinder Conversion. Get it while you can.
Conversion feedback welcome.
Warmage Pathfinder Conversion PDF
Instead of Sorcerer Bloodlines, I think looking along the lines of an Academy affiliation granting bonuses similar to a Cavalier's Order. Things like:
Spell Duelist: bonuses to initiative, checks to dispel spells, bonus damage if you catch your opponent flat-footed.
Elemental Savant: Choose energy type, gain bonuses to damage, overcoming resistance, up to Sudden Admixture
Battle Caster: Weapon proficiency, Armored Mage up to Heavy Armor, Spell channel through a melee attack.
Teamwork Specialist: Gain bonuses to damage/penalties on save if hit by teammate in same round, share spells, spell shaping to avoid one ally per point of Intelligence from area of effect spells.
Ray Sniper: Weapon Focus and bonuses to damage on ray spells, Spell Aim: spend move action to ignore cover bonuses to AC.
Just my thoughts.
Silke what about a class Capstone when you read the conversion doc it talks about all classes should have a 20th Level Capstone ability
I was thinking about somthing giving them more uses of their sudden metamagic feats
I would definitely love more uses per day for Sudden Metamagic feats but that is just a player wont.
You could add something else but the goal of this conversion was to keep changes minimal and stay faithful to the class.
The capstone in this case is "Sudden quicken" without having to meet the prereqs. This is plenty powerful.
At 20th level a Warmage with "Sudden Quickened, Sudden Empowered Wail of the Banshee" does 300hp (200 x 1.5) to 20 creatures in 40-ft.-radius spread. Follow this up with another "Wail of the Banshee" (200hp) and that's 500hp to 20 creatures in one round (assuming they failed their saves).
I could have picked any spell - Wail of the Banshee is just an example.
Compare this to say the Rogue's "Master Strike" ability and I know which one I'd be taking. Granted the rogue's capstone is unlimited uses per day but most PCs have say 4 encounters per day anyway (and often less).
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First this is a very nice conversion. I've been working with one of my own as well.
The one thing I noticed to think about is that Warmage's get only 4 cantrips and that's fine but the spell progression shows them getting 6 per day by 4th level. So, the question is do we add 2 more to thier list or reduce the chart to 4?
In 3.5 it was not an issue but with the new cantrips rule it is misleading.
In my version I just added the two universal spells to their list: Arcane Mark and Prestidigitation.
First this is a very nice conversion. I've been working with one of my own as well.
The one thing I noticed to think about is that Warmage's get only 4 cantrips and that's fine but the spell progression shows them getting 6 per day by 4th level. So, the question is do we add 2 more to thier list or reduce the chart to 4?
In 3.5 it was not an issue but with the new cantrips rule it is misleading.In my version I just added the two universal spells to their list: Arcane Mark and Prestidigitation.
I see that first level spells jump to 6 but where are you seeing the 0 level jump?
As 59 people have downloaded and seen, my previous Warmage Pathfinder Conversion was good, likely the best around. Not to be content with that, it has undergone a major review and been further refined after considerable feedback from my own groups of passionate players (about 20 strong now).
It's even closer to the original yet has critical flexibility and game-play improvements. In fact its so core, no well-reasoned DM should deny you playing one. It includes the full spell list for handy reference and a detailed change record so you can appreciate the thought and attention to detail that goes into making Silke conversions great.
I've shared the folder thus uploaded versions can be replaced while still allowing the URL entered on forums to remain valid.
Tip: You can check the version date at the base of each PDF.
Get it here: Warmage Class Pathfinder Conversion.pdf
Conversion feedback welcome.
Conversion feedback welcome.
First, I really do like this. Awesome job.
On to my question: When you were converting the sudden feats over, was there any thought given to increasing the amount of uses per day? It was something that just stuck out to me when I originally saw them and used. Had you thought about increasing the uses at all?
The short answer is absolutely - as you can read a few posts up.
Dated...
Silke, Tue, Feb 16, 2010, 12:48 PM
Silke, Mon, Mar 1, 2010, 05:28 PM
The mechanic was evaluated and remained unchanged...until now. Yes I've cracked to popular demand! The Pathfinder Warmage conversion now gets this as a class ability at 14th level.
Why...
I’ve always wanted to add this.
People want it.
It makes sudden metamagic feats more desirable to a warmage.
It makes warmage’s the premier users of sudden metamagic feats (which is ideal).
It makes players’ keen to stay with the class until 14th level (instead of 8th level) before multiclassing or taking a PrC.
It helps the warmage remain competitive against higher level sorcerer bloodline powers.
Recall Sudden Metamagic: At 14th level, a warmage can recall their sudden metamagic feats known and expend them again. Each sudden metamagic feat may only be recalled once per day and requires a moment of intense concentration to recall (a full-round action which provokes attacks of opportunity). Recalling sudden metamagic feats can be done at anytime up until the character has rested and renewed their uses per day. This ability effectively allows a warmage to use each of their sudden metamagic feats 2 times per/day.
Design note: A full-round action to recall each sudden feat known is important. It helps to limit the warmage from going nova in a single encounter.
personally I never liked the warmage as written, I think it is better served as a prestige class.
As a base class I'd change the spell list first of all the list is too much for a spontaneous caster, though I can find myself agreeing with a cleric BAB and HD.
I’ve always wanted to add this.
I think this is pretty cool. Is there a new PDF coming out for it? ;/
In a related note, Kobold Quarterly I believe has a BattleMage Pathfinder Base class coming in the Summer issue
Yes the finished PDF is up from the time of my last posting - just download it again. It will be interesting to see BattleMage Pathfinder Base class when it comes out. Regarding the Warmage Pathfinder conversion, at the time of this posting, there is no better quality conversion anywhere on the net than this one. It's pretty much been refined to perfection at this point.
Over next two weeks or so I'll make available some more high quality conversions. Namely psion and psychic warrior and a re-imagination of the swashbuckler (the original in CW was unworthy of conversion).
Over next two weeks or so I'll make available some more high quality conversions. Namely psion and psychic warrior and a re-imagination of the swashbuckler (the original in CW was unworthy of conversion).
Would you take any request for conversions as well?
Just checking the forums and saw this one. If anyone's interested, I did a warmage conversion, based on the original 3.5, as well as a number of others (including psion and psychic warrior), a complete rebuild of the samurai, and 2 of my own base classes. They can be found at mediafire.com/ElghinnLightbringer, if anyone wants to take a look (some still have mistakes, just no time to go fix things). Happy converting everyone.
After hours of work Pathfinder Warmage Conversion II is now available for download from here. It's more flexible, extensible, and closer to Pathfinder rule set than ever. The legacy system of sudden metamagic feats have been replaced by their modern equivalent - bonus metamagic feats and metamagic mastery. Class skills and the cantrip spell list have been revised slightly in keeping with other Pathfinder 'full spell casting' classes. With the release of APG, five spells from Spell Compendium have been converted to their obvious Pathfinder equivalents (Ultimate Magic may allow us to convert more when it's released).
Now that the Magus is available we've had an opportunity to peruse Pathfinder's GISH and can be confident that Pathfinder Warmage Conversion II remains a distinctly separately class and in no way outshines the Magus.
Enjoy
As mentioned previously, all 3.5e Spell Compendium spells would be updated to Pathfinder equivalents once Ultimate Magic was released. Warmage spell list has now had that review and a number of 1st-5th level spells have changed while some others such as Stone Call have been moved to their correct spell level. If you think one of the 1st-5th level spells could be swapped with a more appropriate spell then please detail what and why.
If you want what should be the best presented, designed and playtested Pathfinder conversion for 3.5e Warmage class then download it here:
Warmage Class Pathfinder Conversion.pdf
Feedback welcome as always.
Cheers,
Silke
I have a slightly different take on the Warmage. Here (warmage) is my conversion. Let me know what you guys think!
Master Arminas
@Shfish ask and you shall receive :)
I deleted the old link but here it is uploaded anew Warmage Class Pathfinder Conversion.pdf
The design goal was a 1:1 conversion while using Pathfinder Rules. It may have stayed a little after substitution of 3.5e Spell Compendium spells for equivalent Pathfinder spells but the class is a faithful and play tested conversion. Have fun and let me know if there are any questions. A rather detailed change summary is included on the last page.
Footnote: I’m pulling out a favourite PC (10th level Pathfinder Warmage using this conversion) for a game this Saturday. Love the class!