James Risner Owner - D20 Hobbies |
kyrt-ryder |
So Paizo opted not to go with WotC's later call to make scrolls and wands cast at the same speed as their spells.
So much for scrolls of featherfall >.>
(Ugh, I am never going to be able to sit down and play at a standard table when I have to ignore so many of the baseline rules for my own games lol)
Kevin Andrew Murphy Contributor |
Just use Craft Wondrous Item and make a feather fall feather token. A little more expensive, maybe, but usable by anyone, and will also work when you're paralyzed, unconscious, or just have no convenient reading light (as would be the case with pit traps where the wicked dungeon designers failed to install track lighting).
James Risner Owner - D20 Hobbies |
I certainly don't see anything saying they did that in the 3.5 DMG errata?
It was Errata, published in Rules Compendium (which unfortunately says "This WotC game product contains no Open Game Content.")
Also, the text in the DMG was ambiguous on this subject. Once could argue the DMG originally could have allowed for fast casting items. I remember the subject being heavily debated whether or not it was a standard action minimum.
kyrt-ryder |
So it's not OGL errata? That's just weird.
How many immediate/swift action spells are we finding in the Pathfinder RPG out of curiosity?
Feather Fall for one. We'll exclude scrolls of Quickened spells, since...well that's just silly.
So... why are scrolls of Quickenned spells silly? You pay more to be able to pop it off quick. I could see a ton of situations I'd like to have access to quickenned scrolls or wands (Although by one of the two possible interpretations Quickened Wands of spells over 0th level don't exist.)
Snorter |
I assume there's a minimum casting time, because you have to unroll the thing and read it. Even if the spell were Quickened, there's the logistics of retrieving it, unrolling it, reading it, having it burn up, shaking the ash off your fingers, and going for your next scroll.
Even with a Handy Haversack, there's a delay in asking for what you want, and getting it, that prevents the casting from two scrolls in a round.
Or if you already had two scrolls in your hand, then it would interfere with your ability to handle them. Like trying to read two newspapers at once.
In the wind.
While being shot at.
While running.
While Tumbling through a swordfight.
Etc.
I played a Wizard with a Handy Haversack for a few years in SCAP, and I took these restrictions to heart; I don't know if the other players noticed (probably not), but I would be trying to predict what my next scroll would be, and setting it up for next round.
I don't know if that was the way everyone else plays, but I certainly imposed that restriction on myself, as being fair and justified.
It sometimes meant that, if it wasn't in my head, or in my hand right now, I'd tell the other PCs to wait their turn, so they did accuse me once or twice of being contrary, but I believe I was playing by the Rules As Intended.
Being able to cast from any scroll, any time would have made a lot of the encounters a cakewalk, instead of a fun challenge.
Maybe when people complain about the uber-ness of the casters, it's partly because their group is handwaving the logistics of swapping items, retrieving components, etc?
Morgen |
So... why are scrolls of Quickenned spells silly? You pay more to be able to pop it off quick. I could see a ton of situations I'd like to have access to quickenned scrolls or wands (Although by one of the two possible interpretations Quickened Wands of spells over 0th level don't exist.)
They're silly because even if your DM allows you to do it, they're still not a swift action since you have to draw the scroll out as a move action! Obviously you could already have the scroll out, but then your trying to do something cheesy, probably a bunch of expensive scrolls of quickened true strike or something.
:D
kyrt-ryder |
kyrt-ryder wrote:So... why are scrolls of Quickenned spells silly? You pay more to be able to pop it off quick. I could see a ton of situations I'd like to have access to quickenned scrolls or wands (Although by one of the two possible interpretations Quickened Wands of spells over 0th level don't exist.)They're silly because even if your DM allows you to do it, they're still not a swift action since you have to draw the scroll out as a move action! Obviously you could already have the scroll out, but then your trying to do something cheesy, probably a bunch of expensive scrolls of quickened true strike or something.
:D
Scroll Bandolier. I don't remember where I read the device, but logically it makes alot of sense (and you occasionally see them in various fiction, though it tends a bit more towards ninja anime scrolls than wizardly scrolls).
The one I read held up to 50 scrolls, and you could draw them as free actions.
Also, I don't see any real problem with having a scroll in-hand, if you have it in your hand, then that hand isn't free for anything else (A weapon, handling material components, performing somatic components, etc) so I hardly find it an issue.
Quickenned scrolls of true-strike would be kind of nice, but the fact you need to burn your swift action (and the cost of a 5th level scroll) every turn to get the effect makes them poor choices except when trying to land a finishing blow of sorts, on a foe with an... excessive AC.
I was thinking more of quickenned scrolls that you would use once in a fight and be done with them.
Kevin Andrew Murphy Contributor |
Scroll Bandolier. I don't remember where I read the device, but logically it makes alot of sense (and you occasionally see them in various fiction, though it tends a bit more towards ninja anime scrolls than wizardly scrolls).
The one I read held up to 50 scrolls, and you could draw them as free actions.
I think you're thinking of the Infinite Scroll Case which I think is in the Magic Items Compendium and Magic of Eberron, but I think was originally listed as a freebie on one of the designers websites. I think maybe Sean K. Reynolds.
Can't find a link at the moment.
Viletta Vadim |
That seems like a lot of time and money to spend on this kind of thing. Are you sure it wouldn't be cheaper to just throw your gold at the enemies to kill them at that point rather then scribing/buying a bunch of forth level and higher scrolls?
That route was more doable for Artificers back in 3.5. Standard half price for making it yourself, half price for an Artisan feat paired with Unbound scroll, -10% for Apprentice: Craftsman, another -25% if your DM allowed cross-setting material for Magical Artisan. You're making scrolls near a sixth of market, and you can apply metamagic to 'em as a class ability.
Kevin Andrew Murphy Contributor |
Viletta Vadim |
That class needs some sort of cost reduction or something to really make their scrolls more worthwhile and, more importantly, competitive with wands, or to make their scrolls legitimately better (and a +1 to the DC doesn't cut it). A -5% reduction to GP/XP costs in scribing alongside a capstone that lets the Wizard use her own caster level and intelligence score in casting a scroll would make it a legitimately powerful class. As it stands, none of the abilities are really any good at all, to the point where even in 3.5, you could well be better off with more levels in Wizard to get the bonus feat.
Ross Hearne aka poisonbladed |
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So last I new there were not real order operations for actions. Meaning that a Swift action could come at any point during your round. So you could swift, move, attack. Or move, attack, swift. Or attack, swift, move.
My thought here is move to pull the scroll, swift action to tripper it, and the on with your standard action.
Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 |
So last I new there were not real order operations for actions. Meaning that a Swift action could come at any point during your round. So you could swift, move, attack. Or move, attack, swift. Or attack, swift, move.
My thought here is move to pull the scroll, swift action to tripper it, and the on with your standard action.
This was probably solved 6 years ago.
Kahel Stormbender |
Morgen wrote:So... why are scrolls of Quickenned spells silly? You pay more to be able to pop it off quick. I could see a ton of situations I'd like to have access to quickenned scrolls or wands (Although by one of the two possible interpretations Quickened Wands of spells over 0th level don't exist.)So it's not OGL errata? That's just weird.
How many immediate/swift action spells are we finding in the Pathfinder RPG out of curiosity?
Feather Fall for one. We'll exclude scrolls of Quickened spells, since...well that's just silly.
Because you still have to read the scroll? And you need to do so aloud (I think). Which is not the same as casting the spell yourself. The caster with Quicken metamagic probably has a shorthand casting when invoking the metamagic. A shorthand which cuts out many of the sigils, words, and so forth.
But a scroll is scribing the spell as a one shot pre-formed casting. How much space does it take on the scroll? Probably a good deal of it. And to cast that scroll you need to read the entire thing.