I've been thinking about this for a while and I thought now would be about the best time to post it rather than continue to sit on this and do nothing with it.
These are just my various things that I am considering adjusting or bringing into later 4e games I run with reasons I came up with them and would like to hear opinions on them or modifications I should make.
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I like magic items, but I dislike the complete the utter necessity of certain magic items. For example, if a high-level character loses their
high level weapon/implement, and they didn't happen to carry a spare in their bag, their effectiveness in battle drops to nearly nil.
House Rule, It is the Warrior that matters not the Weapon:
As characters increase in power, characters benefit as if they had magic items on them. At 6th level, characters get a +1 enhancement bonus to all defenses, attack rolls, and damage rolls (these do stack with enhancement bonuses from magic weapons). In addtion, for determining the extra damage from a critical, they can deal +1d6 damage instead of using the critical effect of their current magic weapon or implement. At 11th level and every 5 levels after, the enhancement bonus increases by +1 and the critical damage increase by +1d6.
If a power gains an additional +2 bonus for paragon or epic, like the Dragonborn's Dragon Breath, ignore those bonuses.
I think that this would have a minor increase in power and hopefully make more interesting choice for magic items. I'm not sure if that would be the result though.
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For me, neither the Bull Rush or Grab options are especially reasonable choices for players to attempt, their effects are superseded by other powers practically all of the time, making them used sporadically at best. To me, I think that unless I'm going for more damage, the warrior should be using bull rush to knock around foes, and currently, unless they focus a lot, the ability to push something one square while dealing no damage is a significant penalty.
| General Power
At-Will
Standard Action | Melee 1
Special: This power can be used in place of the basic attack at the end of a charge.
Target: One creature
Attack: Constitution vs. Fortitude
Increase to Constitution + 2 vs. Fortitude at 11th level, and to Constitution + 4 vs. Fortitude at 21st level.
Hit: 1d6 + Strength modifier damage, push the target up to a number of squares equal to your Strength modifier, and shift into the space they were in.
Increase damage to 2d6 + Strength modifier at 21st level.
| General Power
At-Will
Standard Action | Melee 1
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. Reflex
Increase to Strength + 2 vs. Reflex at 11th level, and to Strength + 4 vs. Reflex at 21st level.
Hit: 1d6 + Strength modifier damage, and the target is immobilized until it escapes or until the end of your next turn.
Increase damage to 2d6 + Strength modifier at 21st level.
Sustain Minor: The immobilized condition persists and the target takes Strength modifier damage.
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I really do like Rogue's with options with more weapons. While I don't think they should be best with other weapons, I like to keep options open such that unarmed, with an axe, or a spear, a rogue is still viable.
- Prerequisites: Rogue, Sneak Attack class feature
- Benefit: You can wield any weapon you are proficient with to deal Sneak Attack damage and to use rogue powers that require a light blade (you still cannot use throw weapons that don't have the light thrown or heavy thrown property, nor can you use a ranged weapon as a melee weapon). For weapons using this feat, reduce the Sneak Attack damage for one-handed weapons by one die and reduce the Sneak Attack damage for two-handed weapons by two dice. If the weapon has the off-hand property, reduce the damage from Sneak Attack by 1 instead.
I don't think it is more powerful than any single feat I've seen grant a similar ability. There are racial feats that do this for one specific weapon, but those are usually military weapons that the race is automatically proficient with and this does still require more energy to be spent on proficiency. If it works how I like, it should be as good as those feats and make additional similar feats unnecessary for my game.
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Overall, I feel that the books tend not to favor many using ranged weapons, off-hand, from the Player's Handbook and Player's Handbook 2 the only classes that have any support for the ranged weapons for powers that use them are the Ranger and the Rogue (who is limited to the crossbows and light blades). While these options are reasonable options most of the time, there are times that I want to play a Cleric, Fighter, or Paladin with a ranged weapon and I find the current options for supporting this to be lacking. I have no issue with a class being better with one type of weapons, but I still like having the other option available.
- Benefit: When wielding a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can make attacks with it as if it were a melee weapon with the Reach property.
Using this doesn't change the role the Fighter plays. He gets no exceptional abilities at any range, he still works best by being right next to his enemies in order to pin them down and he still uses Strength-based attacks (just with a bow). In this case the bow wielding Fighter could still multi-class into Ranger and have the advantage of having Fighter powers for melee and Ranger powers for long range.
Compared to Opportunistic Archer from Martial Power, I would say that my suggested feat is exceptionally more powerful, but that doesn't really say much as Opportunistic Archer is extremely weak in allowing you to actually use it and the benefit is not exceptional to begin with.
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One of my favorite things is terrain, when used I believe it really creates a positive influence during a battle. However, one issue I do have with terrain is that most people I have been playing with have been treating the terrain as a bad thing, preferring to often just stay away if they can take any sort of defensive position, and have been considering it to be an immutable object. I think this is part due to the limited phrasing of most terrain. For example, a set of plant life around the ground may be poisonous to those who travel though it and would list effects on creature that pass by, it will be less likely to informing one how easy it is for a player to set fire to it or cut it down.
The system I would like is to be able to use skills to alter the terrain. From a Wizard setting fire to dangerous terrain to a Barbarian ripping a pillar from the ground and using it as a very long reach weapon against that annoying flying creature. I would like to have some idea how I want to react to any suggestion they want to attempt. I know that I want to set benchmarks for what a certain DC should effect, but I'm not sure of much more than that.
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I can see that what some people mean when they say that monster attack bonuses and defenses scale faster than the player's own numbers, but I'm not sure if I like either the way masterwork armors or feats with exceptionally large bonuses solve the issue.
Instead I'm considering a system where characters get magic item-like abilities every few levels to augment the characters offenses and defenses. Granting resistances to psychic damage, ability to deal fire damage instead your normal type, or the ability to resist the effects of being dominated. This could be used in a game with less magical items as well.
So far all I imagine for this is that there would be the option to pick a new ability every few levels, and abilities would scale and could have prerequisites based on level, class, race, or build. Given the number of options I would imagine this would need, this has fallen by the wayside in preference for simpler to implement changes.
I'm about to finally give 4E a try in a couple months with my table. Our playstyle, however, is everything but level-dependant thought. This, in addition to feedback from my players have gotten me brainstorming on four houserulings I'll be doing to the system for my table to better enjoy it and help them adapt:
WARNING: Flammable, true-believers may find the following offensive and should skip the rest of the post. You have been warned.
1) Bring back all the positive combat modifiers like Flanking, vs Prone, Invisible Attacker, etc. If my players want to try an assassination (as opposed to a bum-rush) of a target against whom it would be suicide to face directly, I want them to have a chance, and I want mechanics to reward clever planning.
2) Bring back the full roster of combat maneuvers including Trip, Disarm, etc. Warrior-class powers already taking the place of said maneuvers in 4E will in turn receive bonuses (akin to the formerly existing Improved-something-or-other feats).
3) More Rituals. Particularly divine rituals for clerics to feel more priest-y and enable them to officiate mass, impart sacraments, etc.
4) Upon requisition, new class powers based on already-existing, level-apropiate ones. If there's an at-will Magic Missile and Ray of Frost, I see no reason why there can't be similar adaptations of say, Negative Energy Ray or the like. To me, it's all about customization.
Those were my heretic two cents. =)
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I'm about to finally give 4E a try in a couple months with my table. Our playstyle, however, is everything but level-dependant thought. This, in addition to feedback from my players have gotten me brainstorming on four houserulings I'll be doing to the system for my table to better enjoy it and help them adapt:
WARNING: Flammable, true-believers may find the following offensive and should skip the rest of the post. You have been warned.
1) Bring back all the positive combat modifiers like Flanking, vs Prone, Invisible Attacker, etc. If my players want to try an assassination (as opposed to a bum-rush) of a target against whom it would be suicide to face directly, I want them to have a chance, and I want mechanics to reward clever planning.
2) Bring back the full roster of combat maneuvers including Trip, Disarm, etc. Warrior-class powers already taking the place of said maneuvers in 4E will in turn receive bonuses (akin to the formerly existing Improved-something-or-other feats).
3) More Rituals. Particularly divine rituals for clerics to feel more priest-y and enable them to officiate mass, impart sacraments, etc.
4) Upon requisition, new class powers based on already-existing, level-apropiate ones. If there's an at-will Magic Missile and Ray of Frost, I see no reason why there can't be similar adaptations of say, Negative Energy Ray or the like. To me, it's all about customization.Those were my heretic two cents. =)
3 and 4 aren't heretical at all! More rituals could only be a good thing, and lots of people modify powers (energy types in particular).
Let us know how 1 and 2 work out for you, though. They sound interesting.
And Blazej, would you consider lowering the level or value or magic weapons and implements? Without getting a benefit from the enhancement bonus, it will be all about the "kicker" powers of the item, which, while sometimes very useful, doesn't really merit the value of the item. I would think tinkering with the cost could help to keep those items relavent, while removing them from "must have" status.
You could also take a look at armor and neck-slot items, as they seem similarly ubiquitous, given that they grant bonuses to AC and NAD, respectively.
I'm about to finally give 4E a try in a couple months with my table. Our playstyle, however, is everything but level-dependant thought. This, in addition to feedback from my players have gotten me brainstorming on four houserulings I'll be doing to the system for my table to better enjoy it and help them adapt:
WARNING: Flammable, true-believers may find the following offensive and should skip the rest of the post. You have been warned.
1) Bring back all the positive combat modifiers like Flanking, vs Prone, Invisible Attacker, etc. If my players want to try an assassination (as opposed to a bum-rush) of a target against whom it would be suicide to face directly, I want them to have a chance, and I want mechanics to reward clever planning.
2) Bring back the full roster of combat maneuvers including Trip, Disarm, etc. Warrior-class powers already taking the place of said maneuvers in 4E will in turn receive bonuses (akin to the formerly existing Improved-something-or-other feats).
3) More Rituals. Particularly divine rituals for clerics to feel more priest-y and enable them to officiate mass, impart sacraments, etc.
4) Upon requisition, new class powers based on already-existing, level-apropiate ones. If there's an at-will Magic Missile and Ray of Frost, I see no reason why there can't be similar adaptations of say, Negative Energy Ray or the like. To me, it's all about customization.Those were my heretic two cents. =)
In regards to #1: I think most of these already exist. Flanking grants combat advantage for example which is always good and can be very good for some classes. Prone opponents grant a benefit to those trying to hit you in melee but a penalty if your trying to used range attacks on them. Not sure about invisibility as its such a rare ability that its not come up in a game I'm in.
In regards to #2: At least some of these options already exist - thing is they are usually limited to encounter or daily powers. For my money this strikes me as good design as it avoids certain very repetitive events in combat. I had a master tripper in 3.5 and it was always the exact same thing in every combat - endless tripping. Limiting this to more cinematic events heightens the effect when it comes into play. Its definitely fun to trip a bad guy but its not nearly so cool if its all you ever do.
That said its not nearly as effective in 4E. My cleric has Command and I use to to make enemies fall down every so often - but because standing does not provoke AoO its best if its timed so that your allies can use it to get benefits to hit - I'll often delay my turn until after may target has gone before trying this as I want all my team mates to be able to get in a swing between when I use the power and when the victim stands up. Or I might use it to clear a path so that I can get into range to heal one of my allies that is on his last legs.
This sort of thing is core design to 4E where you cool trick often does not really do much for you personally and is best utilized so that your allies can take maximum benefit out of the result. As I recall the fighter trip move is sort of like this - the trip attack is not really the most damaging trick the fighter can do and is instead really useful to allow either team mates to really beat on the target or, more often in our case, create a gap in the shell of the enemies defenses allowing team mates to exploit the hole in the enemy line to move forward and assault the enemy controllers and artillery.
For me, neither the Bull Rush or Grab options are especially reasonable choices for players to attempt, their effects are superseded by other powers practically all of the time, making them used sporadically at best.
Could be that this does nothing but enhance your game. If so kudo's.
My only concern in this regards is back to those powers that seem to supersede these. Our parties Avenger is extremely good at bypassing enemy lines or moving from one point of the battlefield to another part. I'd be kind of concerned if the Barbarian was almost as good at this sort of trick as it means that the Barbarian is stepping on the Avengers toes - the Barbarian already has his own niche (raw combat damage) and it'd not be a good thing if he took some of the lustre off our go to man for getting to where he needs to be.
Only testing will reveal if this is an issue or not but I'd keep an eye on this to insure that your not overly benefiting the the big bruisers.
In regards to #1: I think most of these already exist. Flanking grants combat advantage for example which is always good and can be very good for some classes. Prone opponents grant a benefit to those trying to hit you in melee but a penalty if your trying to used range attacks on them. Not sure about invisibility as its such a rare ability that its not come up in a game I'm in.
All of these simply impart combat advantage in 4th Edition, which is a net +2 bonus to attack rolls regardless of how many of these effects the target is under (a blind, prone, flanked, stunned target still only grants attackers a +2 bonus to attack). Allowing all of these to stack could affect gameplay dramatically. I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, but it's something you might want to think carefully about before implementing.
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I'm about to finally give 4E a try in a couple months with my table. Our playstyle, however, is everything but level-dependant thought. This, in addition to feedback from my players have gotten me brainstorming on four houserulings I'll be doing to the system for my table to better enjoy it and help them adapt:
WARNING: Flammable, true-believers may find the following offensive and should skip the rest of the post. You have been warned.
1) Bring back all the positive combat modifiers like Flanking, vs Prone, Invisible Attacker, etc. If my players want to try an assassination (as opposed to a bum-rush) of a target against whom it would be suicide to face directly, I want them to have a chance, and I want mechanics to reward clever planning.
2) Bring back the full roster of combat maneuvers including Trip, Disarm, etc. Warrior-class powers already taking the place of said maneuvers in 4E will in turn receive bonuses (akin to the formerly existing Improved-something-or-other feats).
3) More Rituals. Particularly divine rituals for clerics to feel more priest-y and enable them to officiate mass, impart sacraments, etc.
4) Upon requisition, new class powers based on already-existing, level-apropiate ones. If there's an at-will Magic Missile and Ray of Frost, I see no reason why there can't be similar adaptations of say, Negative Energy Ray or the like. To me, it's all about customization.Those were my heretic two cents. =)
1) Already dealt with above.
2) There are plenty of powers that will give similar effects. If you haven't played 4e much you should seriously consider trying it vanilla before adopting stuff from 3e which has some radically different design concepts (for one, feats are much less powerful in 4e, and many are replaced by powers - trying to backfill with feats that you are familar with from 3e might be a mistake as they could be over-powerful and impact on the different party roles). I'm not saying it is a bad idea but there are plenty of powers that (for example) render the victim prone (i.e. trip them) and since what you are suggesting will make it easier to get combat advantage (and the +2 to hit) it might unbalance some characters (like the rogue, for example). Most feats - in fact, all of them, maybe bar some Channel Divinity feats - do not grant powers at all but simply provide bonuses to existing abilities. I would suggest that if your player wants to be (again, for example) a tripping machine he needs to pick an appropriate class and powers, and maybe the feats should give bonuses to that (as you suggest) but not actually grant the power.3) Rituals are a DM's best friend.
4) The rules more or less say that (for example, replacing radiant powers for necrotic when creating an NPC evil paladin or cleric) so that should be no problem.
More generally, if you want the players to adapt, confusing them with 3e concepts in a 4e mechanic is maybe not the way to go.
I've been thinking about ....
I like magic items, but I dislike the complete the utter necessity of certain magic items. For example, if a high-level character loses their high level weapon/implement, and they didn't happen to carry a spare in their bag, their effectiveness in battle drops to nearly nil.
I have sped read the other replies but doesn't the Character Generator have a function for low magic campaigns? I think it is on the page with backgrounds, or wherever the Spell Scars options are. Basically you click the box and the machine gives you more bonuses and also gives access to masterwork equipment. Maybe based on PHB2? Maybe DMG2 as mentioned above?
And Blazej, would you consider lowering the level or value or magic weapons and implements? Without getting a benefit from the enhancement bonus, it will be all about the "kicker" powers of the item, which, while sometimes very useful, doesn't really merit the value of the item. I would think tinkering with the cost could help to keep those items relavent, while removing them from "must have" status.
You could also take a look at armor and neck-slot items, as they seem similarly ubiquitous, given that they grant bonuses to AC and NAD, respectively.
Yeah. Currently I would say that this makes items almost completely about their properties. My goal was not reduce the power of existing magic items that much. I thought that putting the bonuses five levels after the level of the first magic item with that bonus would be a big enough gap to allow characters to benefit from purchasing a better weapon for the +1 bonus it had over their normal weapons. I agree with you that this rule devalues items in a way that I didn't really intend.
Looking back, I think that my rule should be boosted to start with +1 at 11th level instead, then go up +1 for every five levels after that. This I hope would make it a pretty good decision to get a better weapon, if only for that additional +1 or +2 bonus and for any other scaling that most items give when they are more powerful. I would hope that this wouldn't significantly affect the value of items in a major way.
Could be that this does nothing but enhance your game. If so kudo's.
My only concern in this regards is back to those powers that seem to supersede these. Our parties Avenger is extremely good at bypassing enemy lines or moving from one point of the battlefield to another part. I'd be kind of concerned if the Barbarian was almost as good at this sort of trick as it means that the Barbarian is stepping on the Avengers toes - the Barbarian already has his own niche (raw combat damage) and it'd not be a good thing if he took some of the lustre off our go to man for getting to where he needs to be.
Only testing will reveal if this is an issue or not but I'd keep an eye on this to insure that your not overly benefiting the the big bruisers.
I have that if this power is an equal or better option than the specific powers of any class, than my suggested power would have gone further than I intended. Those powers should always be better than these options, even for the strong and tough characters. All I terribly want is there to be a significant option for a party without any other ability to knock back a character. (Although, this rule sort of began because of a high level combat, between a Red Dragon and a Dwarven Ranger. Despite there being dangerous terrain that would have forced my character to be much more careful, the dragon lacked any reasonable options to get me there, with bull rush being completely ineffective, then grab and drag being the only option, but have been difficult and I believe would have made the fight much more easy for the Ranger.)
Also, I'm a bit concerned that having only these two powers skews in favor of melee classes with good Strength. Part of me wants to answer that by adding a few other abilities that are usable by characters that don't have an impressive Strength.
Either way, I will be doing as you say to see if they give too much benefit. Until then I can only hope for it enhancing my game rather than reduce the value of any of the characters existing abilities.
I like basing this on Con. I think it is rather powerful for simply freely handing out. Maybe drop it to just flat 'Strength modifier damage', so that it still lets you hit the foes, but the primary emphasis is on knocking them around.
Again, I think this is a bit strong for anyone being able to freely do. I'd again recommend scaling the damage down to 'Strength modifier' damage to prevent abuse.
Yeah, I have to agree. I am trying to make these as good as basic attacks, so I thought that without the proficiency bonus that it would be closer, but I forgot that these were targeted at non-AC defenses, which often makes up for that lack of bonus. I'm going to implement the changes you suggested.
So, funny thing, WotC just today released another way for rogues to expand their weapon range - a feat from a Class Acts article in dragon that lets them use simple or military one-handed heavy blades as light blades, with no loss of Sneak Attack damage.
The issue has been a hard one to balance. I like expanding options, but given the class adds Sneak Attack - a pretty sizable bonus - based largely on the assumption they will be using small weapons, it is hard to figure out where to draw the line. I like your approach of having different penalties based on the weapon size. I like WotC's approach as well, taking into account the military vs superior weapon issue. I think that is why the feat they just released works - a longsword is on par with a rapier, so why not let a rogue use one for the same cost (one feat) without penalty.
Darn WotC doing stuff I want after I vocalize that I want it! :)
I agree that it is a tough issue to make a single good solution for. I think that your suggested feat handles it very well, and I would be comfortable using it.
I definitely sympathize with the feeling. And I think this is an interesting approach. I wouldn't be a fan of such a rule in one of the core books, since it alters the fundamental properties of the game in a way that I'm sure will combo with something else to allow for abuse. But as a house rule, I think it is perfect, since any such unintended consequences can be seen in play and immediately accounted for.
Yeah, I was worried about the similar issue about some unintended combo for an earlier version. Previously I was trying to make it so that it could be used for the powers, but if the power used Strength normally, with the feat and the bow, it would instead use Dexterity. I got a bit worried that their would be some class that would benefit immensily if, for example, they had a Strength for attack rolls, but Dexterity was used a secondary ability score for other benefits to the class.
Which is what made me make it more similar to a magic item or feat that let you treat any melee weapon as a thrown weapon, just in this case, it was to make ranged weapon into a light thrown weapon. Well. Without the actual throwing. That way I could hopefully minimize the effects of things I don't know about.
Essentially, I make the DC hard if the PC wants to use the stunt to enhance an existing attack. I use lower DCs if they want to use a power in a creative way in place of its normal behavior. I tend to use medium DCs when they are trying something entirely skill based (like an acrobatics stunt, or similar). All of these I might then modify as appropriate, but those tend to be my starting points. I use the various damage options on the chart, and scale it down if powerful conditions or lasting effects become involved.
Yeah, I like your suggestions for how to implement it. I have been worried about a player focusing on improving a skill and making the table less useful, but I guess even if that happens I could adjust it for my game. My biggest worry was figuring out how much a particular condition is worth in the heat of battle. I am sort of hopeful to imagine a list of conditions along with an approximate value the damage should be reduced by, I'm not sure if I would have to make it myself though. Or if I should just practice making monsters more, so in game I can better quickly estimate values in mid-battle.
Yeah, you can definitely restyle magic items as simply character abilities, magical boons, etc. DMG2 actually has a few such things along these lines. And it isn't too hard to deal with - just keep the 'treasure value' of such abilities in mind when determining how many the party gets. Those who want to actively hunt down such powers can pay an appropriate price to undergo training, a magic ritual, and things like that. It might require some getting used to, but I think the adjustment could be made without throwing off the balance of the game, or adding too much need to write all the rules on your own.
*Pulls out DM2. Flips to the 'Alternate Reward' section. Turns a page to find a big sidebar section starting with "You can remove magic items from the game entirely and replace them with alternative rewards."*
Darn WotC for having done stuff that does much of what I was suggesting here! :)
Yeah, thanks for pointing me back at that and for many other suggestions you gave.
I have sped read the other replies but doesn't the Character Generator have a function for low magic campaigns? I think it is on the page with backgrounds, or wherever the Spell Scars options are. Basically you click the box and the machine gives you more bonuses and also gives access to masterwork equipment. Maybe based on PHB2? Maybe DMG2 as mentioned above?
It has been a while since I examined the options in it. I will check it out later to see if I can find those options. Thanks!
*Pulls out DM2. Flips to the 'Alternate Reward' section. Turns a page to find a big sidebar section starting with "You can remove magic items from the game entirely and replace them with alternative rewards."*
The alternate rewards, a reason to get the DMG 2. =D
I've been thinking about this for a while and I thought now would be about the best time to post it rather than continue to sit on this and do nothing with it.
These are just my various things that I am considering adjusting or bringing into later 4e games I run with reasons I came up with them and would like to hear opinions on them or modifications I should make.
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I like magic items, but I dislike the complete the utter necessity of certain magic items. For example, if a high-level character loses their
high level weapon/implement, and they didn't happen to carry a spare in their bag, their effectiveness in battle drops to nearly nil.House Rule, It is the Warrior that matters not the Weapon:
As characters increase in power, characters benefit as if they had magic items on them. At 6th level, characters get a +1 enhancement bonus to all defenses, attack rolls, and damage rolls (these do stack with enhancement bonuses from magic weapons). In addtion, for determining the extra damage from a critical, they can deal +1d6 damage instead of using the critical effect of their current magic weapon or implement. At 11th level and every 5 levels after, the enhancement bonus increases by +1 and the critical damage increase by +1d6.
If a power gains an additional +2 bonus for paragon or epic, like the Dragonborn's Dragon Breath, ignore those bonuses.I think that this would have a minor increase in power and hopefully make more interesting choice for magic items. I'm not sure if that would be the result though.
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For me, neither the Bull Rush or Grab options are especially reasonable choices for players to attempt, their effects are superseded by other powers practically all of the time, making them used sporadically at best. To me, I think that unless I'm going for more damage, the warrior should be using bull rush to knock around foes, and currently, unless they focus a lot, the ability to push something one square while dealing no damage is a significant penalty....
#1- I got to say out of the editions, 4E needs magic weapons and impliments less than previous editions however DMG2 does give options for special class 'gifts' that simulate magical effects rather than an actual magical weapon. For a priest say they could be gifted a godly boon which empowers their Prayers as if the priest were wielding a magical symbol or a fighter learning special techniques that simulate a magical sword with certain special effects.
#2- Bull Rush is still in the game but if your not a trained warrior\fighter your less effective when doing it...that sounds right to me!!! If i'm a trained martial artist and I want to push a person backwards into a corner I'm pretty sure my training would allow me to do a kick that would both injure and push( reverse back kick or like), however if I were an untrained clergyman I would have to probably rely on the shove technique which would be little or non-damaging but push them.Grab is in the system and works fine as far as I can see.
Overall once you've run and played the game long enough the system offers you a mechanic that is flexable enough to try anything. I'm trying to trip the person then it's either brute force which is Strength Attack VS Fortitude or knocky the leg from under them which could be Strength Attack VS Reflex. It could be watching for the opponent to get distracted and knocking their knee out which could be WISDOM VS FORTITUDE or REFLEX.