Size and reach with weapons


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


One thing that I've found counter-intuitive is reach at various sizes, and then using weapons and reach weapons.

A small/medium creature has reach of 5' barehanded, and has reach of 5' when wielding a typical weapon.

A large creature has reach of 10' barehanded, and has reach of 10' when wielding a typical weapon that's typically twice as long as that the medium creature is using.

Now that anyone can wield a weapon of any size (which is ridiculous, but the rules allow it), a medium size creature can wield a colossal weapon (at a -8 to attack?), but he maintains a reach of 5'.

So, a weapon that doubles in size 4 times still has the same kind of reach?

Basically, I would like to see strength requirements for wielding larger-than-normal weapons, in addition to classifying them as special reach weapons.

Perhaps add 5' to your range for every 2 size categories bigger?

Size difference:
+1 - 5'
+2 - 10' reach
+3 - 10' reach
+4 - 15' reach

With using a reach weapon, you're subject to the normal rules of not being able to hit foes within half the range of the weapon. So, yes, you can wield a colossal greatsword as a medium creature, but you need to meet the strength requirements to do so, since it weighs 128 lbs, and deals a level 8 fireball's worth of damage every attack it lands on.

Comments?


Another thought I have on the subject is that you take a -2 penalty to hit. My re-interpretation of this is that you take a -4 penalty to strength for purposes of using the weapon, and thus incur -2 to attack AND damage.

So, arbitrating out some strength requirements for weapon use in general.

STR 10 (mod +0) is required for two-handed weapons.
STR 7 (mod -2) is required for one-handed weapons.
STR 4 (mod -4) is required for light weapons.

Characters get a +2 effective STR bonus for wielding weapons pertaining to their race.

Weapons that aren't light but can be finessed count as light weapons for this purpose.

So, if you're a medium sized creature, and you want to wield a colossal sized two-handed weapon, you have to have at least a Strength of at least 26. If you're small, you have to have at least a Strength of at least 28.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Takamonk wrote:


Now that anyone can wield a weapon of any size (which is ridiculous, but the rules allow it), a medium size creature can wield a colossal weapon (at a -8 to attack?), but he maintains a reach of 5'.

What makes you think that anyone can wield of weapon of any size?

quote from p.144

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.


Maezer wrote:


What makes you think that anyone can wield of weapon of any size?

quote from p.144

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder's size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. For example, a Small creature would wield a Medium one-handed weapon as a two-handed weapon. If a weapon's designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can't wield the weapon at all.

The formatting here made me gloss right over that following paragraph...

Thanks.


Takamonk wrote:
A large creature has reach of 10' barehanded, and has reach of 10' when wielding a typical weapon that's typically twice as long as that the medium creature is using.

This isn't true, actually. The weight (or mass) of a weapon doubles when it goes from Medium size to Large size according to the equipment section of the rules. Since it's probably made of the same material and therefore has the same density, its volume must also double. Volume and length don't scale the same way if you want to maintain proportions, that is, a doubling of volume doesn't double any one dimension unless all the other dimensions remain fixed. A quarterstaff is a good example, because they're simple cylinders most of the time.

The volume of a cylinder is given by:

v = pi * r^2 * h

Where v, r, and h are the volume, radius, and height of the staff, respectively. Assume we want to keep the proportional dimensions the same between the Medium and Large staff, that is:

r/h = R/H

And therefore:

r = (R * h) / H

Where the small letters are the radius and height of the Medium quarterstaff, and the large letters are the radius and height of the Large quarterstaff.

We know we're doubling the volume, so we know:

2v = V

Where V is the volume of the Large staff. Now substituting a bit and solving for H:

2 * pi * r^2 * h = pi * R^2 * H
2 * r^2 * h = R^2 * H
2 * ((Rh)/H)^2 * h = R^2 * H
2 * R^2 * h^3 * 1/H^2 = R^2 * H
2 * h^3 * 1/H^2 = H
2 * h^3 = H^3
2^(1/3) * h = H

Google claims 2^(1/3) is about 1.26, and h is probably about six feet, so we know the Large quarterstaff is only about 7.5 feet long, not 12. That's quite a difference. :']

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Takamonk wrote:

Now that anyone can wield a weapon of any size (which is ridiculous, but the rules allow it), a medium size creature can wield a colossal weapon

Comments?

A Medium can't use a Colossal without some spell or effect that specifically allows.

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