Spirit Shaman - proposed conversion


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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Hello, All!

I've been trying to convert the Spirit Shaman from Complete Divine to PFRPG for the Legacy of Fire AP that my wife is going to run come January. You can find my effort so far here. Most of the text is lifted directly from Complete Divine, but the levels that abilities come at have been changed. All I really need right now is opinions on balance as compared to the core classes in PFRPG.

Any and all help is appreciated and most welcome


I can't get the file to download, so I'll only comment on what I would change rather than on what you did change. Hopefully this is still useful for you.

The one real problem I've always had with the mechanics of the Spirit Shaman is their abysmally low Spells Retrieved Per Day. Seriously, at first level they can cast one spell. That's not bad for a class like the Bard that has a bunch of other things they can do (6+ skill points and almost every skill is a class skill, performance, etc), but for a full spellcaster with fewer extra active class abilities than a Cleric, it's a real problem.

So my primary suggestion is to fix the Spells Retrieved chart. Start it out at 2 or 3 spells retrieved at each "I can cast a new level of spells" level and increase it to 5 or 6 at the maximum end.

Alternately, give them a certain number of "Automatic" spells retrieved, perhaps based on alignment or a particular spirit that they favor. As an example, a Spirit Shaman who favors the spirit of a particular type of plant used as an herbal remedy would get an automatic level-appropriate Conjuration (Healing) spell retrieved every day.

Aside from the Spells Retrieved issue, the only big thing is to redistribute class features so that there are no dead levels. If you don't want to add anything new or split up existing features, then at least set up the dead levels so that they're on odd levels, when the character gets access to a new level of spells. The Spirit Shaman is particularly poorly laid out in that regard: it has four dead levels, all of which come on even levels.

Sczarni

My advice would be to reduce MAD with the spells.It worked with the paladin.


The download isn't working for me either. It gets to the point where it says the download should start automatically and then nothing happens. Since I can't see that actual changes you made the best I can offer is what I would do with the class myself.

I presume you have already removed concentration, listen, and spot from the class skill list and added perception.

Instead of moving the class abilities, I would change spells per day and spells retrieved tables to match the sorcerer spells per day and spells known tables. This would line up gaining new levels of spells with the dead levels. (this would address both your issues Zurai) I would also allow them unlimited use of 0-level spells - Orisons.

The only other change I would make is have both bonus spells per day and save DCs be based off the same stat. Either Wisdom or Charisma, pick one and use it for both. Split casting is a poster child for MAD. (totally agree with you Frerezar)

Again, this is based solely on the Complete Divine class as I have been unable to download your altered version and can't say if these suggestions will be compatible with your conversion or not.


Yeah, I also can't get it to download. This hosting site is a real pain, too. Try Google Docs or something. :)

Personally, the biggest appeal to the spirit shaman for me was always the "fast track" spell progression which was offset by the dismal amount of spells you knew. Seriously, it was painful. My suggestion would be to pair up the animal companions with cleric domains and give the shaman those spells as permanent spells known.

It should be pretty easy, too, since the characteristics of each one basically scream the domains. Buffalo = luck, Cougar = Nobility, Owl = Knowledge, Scorpion = Protection, Spider = Community.


Have you checked out the Shaman in Tome of Secrets ?

Might save yourself some work ;)

Sczarni

maybe broaden the definition of what encopases spirits. Add every outsider and you'll be golden. It makes sense and makes the class fairly useful.


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

After much finagling with google docs, I've managed to get the level chart up. I think. Maybe?

As for the Tome of Secrets, I don't posses it. Is it a 3.5 book?


Niteflier wrote:

After much finagling with google docs, I've managed to get the level chart up. I think. Maybe?

As for the Tome of Secrets, I don't posses it. Is it a 3.5 book?

It is a Pathfinder compatible book

http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/a/adamantEntertainment/pathfinderRPG/v5748 btpy89m4&source=search


Niteflier wrote:
As for the Tome of Secrets, I don't posses it. Is it a 3.5 book?

No, it's a Pathfinder book that has conversions for Shaman, Spellblade (Duskblade), Warlock, Artificer, etc....

Some of the suggestions on this thread are allready in effect (adding outsiders to the list of spirits for example).

It's available as a PDF for like $9 bucks ;)


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Okay, I bought it and looked it over, but really, it seems to be muchly weakened from the 3.5 version, much less current PFRPG classes.

  • At 20th, spellcasting has been lowered by one across the board, spells retrieved does increase by one for 5th level and below, but why should I care about how many spells I have, when I can't cast them as many times?
  • The ToS Shaman drops pretty much all of the later level Spirit Shaman abilities for Spirit Energy (Which seems to be a changed version of the Chastise Spirits of the original), an apparent Chanel Energy that only works on spirits, making it far inferior to the Cleric version.
  • Really, Shaman takes out 13 named abilities from the Spirit Shaman, and merely changes two of them, and gives a Domain. Not exactly an even trade in my eyes.

    Apart from a reasonable rearranging of skills, the rest is the same between them. And looking at what all is lost going from the one to the other, I can't really say I would take the Adamant version of it.


  • I didn't think it was all that bad.

    The new class re-writes are not an attempt to convert the WOTC versions straight across, just capture the feeling, and present it in a new way.

    I actually like the new shaman having the ability to choose a different domain each day. It allows you to make some interesting choices of domain spells and abilities.

    I do think a "command spirit" feat would be a cool idea ;)


    Frerezar wrote:
    My advice would be to reduce MAD with the spells.It worked with the paladin.

    That would be my first choice too. The spells known problem is at least partly ameliorated by the fact that unlike the sorcerer, the shaman can change their spells known as often as once per day. If you are a sorcerer, and you pick a spell that's no good, you have to wait for a few levels to change it. If you are a spirit shaman, you have to wait for one day. It also allows for shamans to prepare situational spells if they think they would be handy, like a weather spell if you are travelling by boat. Sorcerers and favored souls have no such luxury.That has to count for something.

    In the line of how sorcerers get an extra spell known/level from the bloodline, though, I can imagine spirit shamans getting that, and various other abilities, from their choice of spirit animal. For example, I can certainly imagine a bull shaman having toughness, a bear shaman being able to deal more damage with unarmed strikes, and a spider shaman having a poison attack. A fixed spell per level (or being able to "convert" a spell into a domain spell, depending on your spirit) would bring the shaman in line with the sorcerer in terms of spells. By the way, I know that already a lot of classes are having a similar ability, but I would like to see an option to "summon" your companion to provide more... tangible aid, maybe as an animal companion-like ally with a template similar to the ghost brute or the telthor ones (from Libris Mortis and Unapproachable East, respectively).


    I've been interested in a good, open conversion of this class for some time. The link didn't work for me, but that isn't surprising given it's a few years late!

    Here's an initial attempt. The idea is that the spirit guide for these shamans could be ancestral, or tied to their homeland or tribe--hence the bloodline angle.

    Granted, it is more of a hybrid conversion and likely needs some powering-down, but it is a start.

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