Attempts to raise compassion and awareness
I think it's easier if a single dice roll reads like a single word in a sentence, so there should be no whitespace:
Whitespace can separate multiple rolls.
Attempts to raise hell 1d10 + 660Woah, did you rig that somehow or did it legitimately roll that? (or maybe you editted the words in after the roll?)
Instead of answering, I will just laugh manically!
Muahahahahahah! Bwahahaha! AAAAAAAAAAhahahahaha!
Attempts to raise hell 1d10 + 660Your 50 to high
Am not. While it might be a translation error, the general consensus is to keep using the number those Christians are most afraid of.
Casts summon abyssal party
"To the conga line!"
awww were limited to 100 d6 now it seems
awww were limited to 100 d6 now it seems
but.. but... what about Pun-Pun? I'm sure he can go waaay above 100d6. :o(
"Pun-pun cleans my pool"
My favourite dice rolling method for characters:
Str
Dex
Con
Int
Wis
Cha
lol
can't roll 1000 times.
sniff...
I have seen rolls in Champions that took more than 100 dice.
Ross- Just want to say your magical dice code has really simplified my life very much. If I ever get to PaizoCon I am buying you the beverage of choice! Thanks again from a harried PbP GM!
I have seen rolls in Champions that took more than 100 dice.
so glade I skipped that then
d0
d0
d0
d0Oh, Rosssssss!
2d0
This represents the creation of the universe out of nothing. Think of it as an easter egg.
Aw, it's gone! My zero-sided die is automatically converted to a one-sided die! No more null dice.
Ross- Just want to say your magical dice code has really simplified my life very much. If I ever get to PaizoCon I am buying you the beverage of choice! Thanks again from a harried PbP GM!
For what it's worth, I'm in a pbp where the GM has asked the players several times not to use the new dice roller, but most of the players ignore him. I think there are two reasons why:
- 1. It's easier to use.
2. People feel entitled to use it because it's the "official" Paizo roller now.
Both of these would be positive things, except when you combine them with the ease of cheating, it's worse than no roller at all because the ease of use only makes it more disruptive to existing pbp games. A safeguard against cheating is a minimum requirement for a dice roller, just as important as randomness. I will be a big fan too once that problem is solved, but as far as I'm concerned the new dice roller was released prematurely.
Null! Cool!
Ross- Just want to say your magical dice code has really simplified my life very much. If I ever get to PaizoCon I am buying you the beverage of choice! Thanks again from a harried PbP GM!For what it's worth, I'm in a pbp where the GM has asked the players several times not to use the new dice roller, but most of the players ignore him. I think there are two reasons why:
1. It's easier to use.
2. People feel entitled to use it because it's the "official" Paizo roller now.Both of these would be positive things, except when you combine them with the ease of cheating, it's worse than no roller at all because the ease of use only makes it more disruptive to existing pbp games. A safeguard against cheating is a minimum requirement for a dice roller, just as important as randomness. I will be a big fan too once that problem is solved, but as far as I'm concerned the new dice roller was released prematurely.
Well, my take on those complaints is this:
- It's just as easy to cheat in any online dice roller
- Anyone who feels the need to cheat bad enough will find a way
- If you feel you need to cheat, go ahead, because cheaters never prosper
There ain't no money on the table. We're supposed to be adults, cheating dice rolls is juvenile and skews the game. My take as a DM is that people who want to cheat WILL. Go ahead, if I catch you at it you won't be invited back to my game, so it's a risk you take for little benefit. I like the fact I don't have to navigate to another page or keep an extra window open to IC to complete rolls. It simplifies things.
Well, my take on those complaints is this:
- It's just as easy to cheat in any online dice roller
- Anyone who feels the need to cheat bad enough will find a way
- If you feel you need to cheat, go ahead, because cheaters never prosper
There ain't no money on the table. We're supposed to be adults, cheating dice rolls is juvenile and skews the game. My take as a DM is that people who want to cheat WILL. Go ahead, if I catch you at it you won't be invited back to my game, so it's a risk you take for little benefit. I like the fact I don't have to navigate to another page or keep an extra window open to IC to complete rolls. It simplifies things.
+1
Patrick Curtin, I basically agree with you, but your comment of "It's just as easy to cheat in any online dice roller" makes me wonder. Earlier in this thread, I asked what good Invisible Castle is, and...Well, my take on those complaints is this:
- It's just as easy to cheat in any online dice roller
- Anyone who feels the need to cheat bad enough will find a way
- If you feel you need to cheat, go ahead, because cheaters never prosper
There ain't no money on the table. We're supposed to be adults, cheating dice rolls is juvenile and skews the game. My take as a DM is that people who want to cheat WILL. Go ahead, if I catch you at it you won't be invited back to my game, so it's a risk you take for little benefit. I like the fact I don't have to navigate to another page or keep an extra window open to IC to complete rolls. It simplifies things.
Invisible castle asks the user to input the name of the character, the campaign in which it is played, and a short description of the roll. The DM can then search for rolls made by that character name. If they see 10 rolls all labeled ''Attack and damage" timestamped within 5 minutes of each other, they can be reasonably sure the player is cheating.
Sure, the DM doesn't check every time. The point is that, once you suspect a player is cheating, you have a method to check.
The player could leave the character name, campaign name, and description blank, but that's one of those things that people who aren't trying to cheat usually wouldn't do.
How would someone cheat with that, without the risk of getting caught?
Don't get me wrong. I agree that the ease of Paizo's dice roller is a major selling point. If I ever run a PBP on Paizo, I would probably tell the players to use it, until I notice one player get lucky die rolls at all the critical moments. I'm just wondering, that's all.
How would someone cheat with that, without the risk of getting caught?
Don't get me wrong. I agree that the ease of Paizo's dice roller is a major selling point. If I ever run a PBP on Paizo, I would probably tell the players to use it, until I notice one player get lucky die rolls at all the critical moments. I'm just wondering, that's all.
The problem is, there is a risk being caught no matter how you cheat. Sure IC's tracking and security is tighter, but I will trade the security factor being slightly better for the ease of use and trust that my players are big enough people not to have to cheat. Like I said, there's no money on the table, and I would hope that anyone who cheats will realize that they are being a yutz for a make-believe game and they really should get up from the computer and take a long hard look in the mirror.
1d20+15=
Whoopsie. Where's the instructions?
When posting, you see "BBCode tags you can use:" Hit the "Show" button, and you'll see the following instructions:
<dice>1d20 + 3; 1d6 + 2</dice> This is a dice expression.
(I replaced the square brackets with angle brackets so as not to invoke the dice roller, but you get the idea.)
Did you really expect to be able to roll a pi-sided die?1d3,14
Edit, ok it doesn't handle decimals. So much for easy as pi.
Wouldn't that be a sphere?
0d6 + 1d6 - 6
Null! Cool!
Nicely done!
Well, my take on those complaints is this:
- It's just as easy to cheat in any online dice roller
- Anyone who feels the need to cheat bad enough will find a way
- If you feel you need to cheat, go ahead, because cheaters never prosper
No it's not inevitable that wanting to cheat confers the ability to cheat. Can you prove that cheaters are finding a way to circumvent the logging in Invisible Castle that allows double-checking by the DM? Can you prove that cheaters are not prospering in your own pbp? Not with this roller. How does complaining about that make me a cheater?
There ain't no money on the table.
So that means we shouldn't care? If I invest time in something I certainly do care about it. Just because there's no money, does that mean it doesn't really matter if someone cheats?
We're supposed to be adults, cheating dice rolls is juvenile and skews the game. My take as a DM is that people who want to cheat WILL. Go ahead, if I catch you at it you won't be invited back to my game, so it's a risk you take for little benefit.
But with this roller you can't catch anyone. You can only suspect someone, and you could be wrong.
Don't get me wrong. I agree that the ease of Paizo's dice roller is a major selling point. If I ever run a PBP on Paizo, I would probably tell the players to use it, until I notice one player get lucky die rolls at all the critical moments.
That's exactly the problem. Now if I happen to get lucky, I have to worry about whether everyone else will believe it. How fun is that? When I play an RPG around a table with friends, if someone rolls a natural 20 at a crucial moment, it's something to cheer about. Everyone can see the dice so there's not an instant of doubt about what was rolled.
No it's not inevitable that wanting to cheat confers the ability to cheat. Can you prove that cheaters are finding a way to circumvent the logging in Invisible Castle that allows double-checking by the DM? Can you prove that cheaters are not prospering in your own pbp? Not with this roller. How does complaining about that make me a cheater?
Sorry Mink, I never said you were a cheater. I just said that if someone wants to cheat, they will. IC has security features in it, but does that make them immune to cheaters? Nope. I can think of several ways to circumvent their security measures without breaking a sweat. A sharp-eyed DM might catch me, but when you are running a PbP you really have to trust those you play with. All I was saying.
There ain't no money on the table.So that means we shouldn't care? If I invest time in something I certainly do care about it. Just because there's no money, does that mean it doesn't really matter if someone cheats?
It means that people who cheat dice rolls in a RPG are really missing the point. If someone feels the need to cheat to advance their character, then that is a personal character flaw, and all the high-tech security in the world will only make it harder for them to cheat, not impossible.
We're supposed to be adults, cheating dice rolls is juvenile and skews the game. My take as a DM is that people who want to cheat WILL. Go ahead, if I catch you at it you won't be invited back to my game, so it's a risk you take for little benefit.But with this roller you can't catch anyone. You can only suspect someone, and you could be wrong.
Well, back to my premise. If someone wants to cheat, they will find a way to do it. I would rather have an embedded dice code in place then have to jump through several hoops at an unrelated site for the dubious feeling that I am somehow circumventing my players from cheating, which as adults I would like to assume they wouldn't in the first place. If someone keeps coming up with crits, I am going to smell a rat, checking function or no.
Anyway, this conversation is rapidly falling off the rails. You personally don't like the new code, I understand that. I do, and the only reason I replied to your complaints was you pullquoted me. Ross, once again thank you for inculding it. I will be using it, non-checkable results and all.
Does Paizo have a dice serving program?
Normally I use EvilDM Dice Server and I rolled a character stats. See if you can do something with this. Oh drop the lowest score. I used Heroic method of generating scores on page 15 of the Pathfinder core rulebook.
----- Original Message -----
From: EvilDM.net Dice Server
To: devilboy@anv.net
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 3:32 AM
Subject: We Have Dice Rollers' rolls for
Hello! You're receiving this message because somebody requested that their dice rolls at http://dice.evildm.net/ be sent to you.
Results of We Have Dice Rollers' dice rolled on October 29th, 2009 at 11:32:12 GMT
Result #1 (2d6 + 6): 3, 3 + 6 = 12
Result #2 (2d6 + 6): 4, 1 + 6 = 11
Result #3 (2d6 + 6): 5, 6 + 6 = 17
Result #4 (2d6 + 6): 5, 3 + 6 = 14
Result #5 (2d6 + 6): 6, 4 + 6 = 16
Result #6 (2d6 + 6): 4, 5 + 6 = 15
Result #7 (2d6 + 6): 3, 6 + 6 = 15
These rolls were e-mailed to devilboy@anv.net.
Vulgar Hammersmithe, a dwarven barbarian, just chopped Garlog the Rancid Orc.
----- Original Message -----
From: EvilDM.net Dice Server
To: devilboy@anv.net
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 3:46 AM
Subject: BAB and Modifier's roll for
Hello! You're receiving this message because somebody requested that their dice rolls at http://dice.evildm.net/ be sent to you.
Results of BAB and Modifier 2's die rolled on October 29th, 2009 at 11:46:49 GMT
This roll was e-mailed to devilboy@anv.net.
Don't get me wrong. I agree that the ease of Paizo's dice roller is a major selling point. If I ever run a PBP on Paizo, I would probably tell the players to use it, until I notice one player get lucky die rolls at all the critical moments.That's exactly the problem. Now if I happen to get lucky, I have to worry about whether everyone else will believe it. How fun is that? When I play an RPG around a table with friends, if someone rolls a natural 20 at a crucial moment, it's something to cheer about. Everyone can see the dice so there's not an instant of doubt about what was rolled.
Good point!
Mind you, I didn't really mean just ONE lucky roll at a crucial moment. I meant that if someone gets a dozen critical hits in a row, or something like that...
But still, you're absolutely right. I wouldn't want to make a player uncomfortable for having a string of good luck. Better that a player should ACTUALLY cheat, rather than the DM making all the players uncomfortable. You've convinced me! Go, Paizo dice-roller!
(Heck, I just came to realize that I can have good luck, too. I often think that dice hate me because of the way I get strings of unlucky rolls during some battles. Yet I'm usually quite lucky when rolling ability scores...)
EDIT: Okay, I just looked over your older posts, minkscooter, and I see that you were advocating the OPPOSITE of what I momentarily thought you were. You were saying that more security should be added to Paizo's dice roller, and I interpretted you to mean that we shouldn't worry so much about security. Well, you've convinced me not to worry about it, even if that's not the way you feel.
I allow them, if a player cheats and I catch them I say nothing...but ya know they do pay for that bad roll..oh yes they pay.
Really I have no issue if someone wants to cheat bad enough they will, and you can on IC. It comes down to trust, I trust my players not to cheat, it's up to another DM to make that call if they do as well
Mind you, I didn't really mean just ONE lucky roll at a crucial moment. I meant that if someone gets a dozen critical hits in a row, or something like that...
So as long as the cheating isn't noticeable, you don't care? A cheater doesn't have to make it obvious by posting a dozen crits in a row.
Sorry Mink, I never said you were a cheater. I just said that if someone wants to cheat, they will.
I believe that's what you meant, however...
If you feel you need to cheat, go ahead, because cheaters never prosper
...
Go ahead, if I catch you at it you won't be invited back to my game, so it's a risk you take for little benefit.
Your wording sounded a little finger-pointy I guess.
IC has security features in it, but does that make them immune to cheaters? Nope. I can think of several ways to circumvent their security measures without breaking a sweat.
Can you describe one?
A sharp-eyed DM might catch me, but when you are running a PbP you really have to trust those you play with. All I was saying.
A DM who simply bothers to look will catch it. A good rule I'd suggest is that DMs not accept rolls without an accompanying description, which can be something simple like "Perception" or "Will save".
all the high-tech security in the world will only make it harder for them to cheat, not impossible.
No, it's preventable. While theoretically nothing is "impossible", I will settle for absurd or easily detectable. Are you suggesting that people will infiltrate Paizo's servers if they have to?
Anyway, this conversation is rapidly falling off the rails. You personally don't like the new code, I understand that. I do, and the only reason I replied to your complaints was you pullquoted me. Ross, once again thank you for inculding it. I will be using it, non-checkable results and all.
Pullquoted? Don't you just mean quoted? Are you suggesting that I did something misleading or quoted you out of context?
How has the conversation gone off the rails? We're still talking about the new dice roller. Or is criticism off topic because the purpose of the thread is to say good things about the roller?
I have nothing against the new code if it would do what it should: generate believable random numbers. In its current stage of development the roller does more harm than good to play-by-post on these messageboards.
I will make a climb check to overcome the collective indifference to the problem:
:)
Your wording sounded a little finger-pointy I guess.
It was meant for the impersonal 'you'. My apologies if you took it personally, it was not meant to be.
Can you describe one?
Mistype the name of the PC. If the roll is good, keep it, if not, reroll with correct spelling. If questioned on mispelling, claim it was a typo. Wont get you 10 free rolls, but will get you a do-over.
EDIT: And to forestall more arguments, I know this can be checked by further searching on IC. But it makes the harried GM do more searching, which most don't have the time for.
A DM who simply bothers to look will catch it. A good rule I'd suggest is that DMs not accept rolls without an accompanying description, which can be something simple like "Perception" or "Will save".
Well, I guess we have a difference of opinion. I don't have time to fact check every roll, not with four games currently going on this site. I accept that my players are honest, and that I don't have to play nanny. YMMV.
No, it's preventable. While theoretically nothing is "impossible", I will settle for absurd or easily detectable. Are you suggesting that people will infiltrate Paizo's servers if they have to?
??? If they want to write in a checking code, by all means. I just am happy they released the dice code early so I can take advantage of it. If they tighten up the security, then that's all to the good. All I was trying to say is no security is perfect, and that cheaters will cheat, no matter how many hurdles you place before them.
How has the conversation gone off the rails? We're still talking about the new dice roller. Or is criticism off topic because the purpose of the thread is to say good things about the roller?
The conversation is falling off the rails because I really don't want to argue about it any more. Pullquoted=quoted, as in took my words and quoted. Why you did, I'm not sure, as I was just thanking Ross for making the dice code. I get your complaints, I just don't agree with them. You dislike the code as is. I like it. Can we just agree to disagree and let it drop?
Hey monkey Patrick! You want me burn place down?
Neh. I'm done. Off to more productive threads ...
shrugs. tries to set fire anyway. burns self.
"Here they this" Hands goblin a ring of fire resistance and a bag of holding having nothing but alchemists fire
"There ya go, carry on"
Mind you, I didn't really mean just ONE lucky roll at a crucial moment. I meant that if someone gets a dozen critical hits in a row, or something like that...So as long as the cheating isn't noticeable, you don't care? A cheater doesn't have to make it obvious by posting a dozen crits in a row.
That's not what I meant. I meant that if I were running a game, and someone got one lucky roll, I wouldn't think that player is cheating. I'd think that player got a lucky roll.
How would someone cheat with that (EDIT: "that" meaning Invisible Castle), without the risk of getting caught?
The problem is, there is a risk being caught no matter how you cheat. Sure IC's tracking and security is tighter, but I will trade the security factor being slightly better for the ease of use and trust that my players are big enough people not to have to cheat. Like I said, there's no money on the table, and I would hope that anyone who cheats will realize that they are being a yutz for a make-believe game and they really should get up from the computer and take a long hard look in the mirror.
Hah! I knew it! Patrick Curtin CAN'T figure out a way to cheat with Invis-...
Mistype the name of the PC. If the roll is good, keep it, if not, reroll with correct spelling. If questioned on mispelling, claim it was a typo. Wont get you 10 free rolls, but will get you a do-over.
Oh. That's a... um... good answer. Is it getting hot in here? I think I'm going to stand over THERE now...
Seriously, though, good form. Your arguments would convince me not to be so uptight about security, except that I have already been convinced of that.
Pullquoted=quoted, as in took my words and quoted.
Sorry, I honestly misunderstood the word, and I think one of the sources I checked at the time misled me. I hope at least you won't hold that against me.
I just am happy they released the dice code early so I can take advantage of it. If they tighten up the security, then that's all to the good.
I just hope releasing early hasn't limited Paizo's options for the future by making people resistant to any change that adds any inconvenience at all. Hopefully there's a solution that won't need to do that.
All I was trying to say is no security is perfect, and that cheaters will cheat, no matter how many hurdles you place before them.
No, I think there are some reasonable hurdles that would make cheating effectively impossible or easily detectable. I hope that's not inflammatory, and I apologize for my other remarks that were.
No hard feelings I hope. I imagine we would enjoy being in a pbp together, in spite of this.
No hard feelings I hope. I imagine we would enjoy being in a pbp together, in spite of this.
No worries Mink, I think most of the ill feelings were miscommunications brought on by the imperfect interface known as the Interwebz. Insults real and imagined can be exacerbated by this medium. I hold no ill feelings, despite our differences in security protocol preferences :)
Just an experiment to see if editing my post will change the dice rolls.
