Spellthief - does he need to change?


Conversions

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

I was looking at converting the spelltheif to pathfinder and in ligh tof all the converting going on here I just had to ask - does the spellthief need any changes to bring it in line with the pathfinder classes? I thought paart of the reason for updating the base classes in pathfinder was to bring them in line with the later splatbook core classes.

Scarab Sages

While this gets bandied about a lot in every conversion thread, the spelltheif is one case where I think it applies: just change the hit die to d8 and you're good.

Also, there's no real *need* for it, but to truly "Pathfinderize" you should change things like the spellthief's detect magic to at will (rather than Cha bonus/day).

(And while this is slightly off-topic, I've always held that an arcane caster who doesn't get read magic is kinda ridiculous, so I'd tack that on with detect magic and call it cantrips or minor magic or something.)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Actually, Spellthief is rather a sucky class to begin with, so you would rather have to add some stuff to have it at the same level as PF core classes.

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

I think I'd disagree there. Having seen one in use through two campaigns ()levels 1-20 and 1-25) I found the spelltheif to be a great class - his sneak attack may well be lower than the base rogue but his other abilities make up for this. I suppose much like the Ranger and his chosen enemies being truly effective relies on the DM setting up the spelltheif to steal spells. My experience may also b etainted by the players using the class, both are very unusual players who use very unpredictable tactics.


Add to it he doesn't have to steal spells, he can steal abilities, resistances, buffs, cast spells of his own, and absorb spells like a rod of absorption (after ninth level) he's got a lot going for him IMO. I would run him as is.


The problem with the spell-theif is that it's a situational class. Against mages, the theif can be too powerful, outwith mages it's a lesser rogue.

I'd try granting it some abilities which work well for a theif, but can be used against non-mages (such as maybe one or two spell-theif tricks ala the rogue), and then maybe tone down it's spell stealing abilities. I might also look at granting it abilities to steal different types of magic as well if you plan to allow them (such as psionics, artificer infusions, truenamer utterences etc)

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
Nero24200 wrote:
The problem with the spell-theif is that it's a situational class. Against mages, the theif can be too powerful, outwith mages it's a lesser rogue.

Wouldn't that also be true of the Ranger, albeit slightly less so under Pathfinder. If the DM doesn’t present the favoured enemies or favoured terrain he’s a lesser being. If there was a spellthief in the party I’d think the DM would include spell users often, much like the DM uses a Rangers favoured enemies to allow the Ranger to make full use of his very situational bonuses.

Nero24200 wrote:
I'd try granting it some abilities which work well for a theif, but can be used against non-mages (such as maybe one or two spell-theif tricks ala the rogue), and then maybe tone down it's spell stealing abilities. I might also look at granting it abilities to steal different types of magic as well if you plan to allow them (such as psionics, artificer infusions, truenamer utterences etc)

We house ruled the spellthief as being able to “steal” these as though they were spells of the equivalent level so this has never been a real problem. Mind you we rarely, if ever, see these so we haven’t really seen if this house rule is over the top or not.

I would make these changes to bring it in line with Pathfinder...
Change HD to d8 (up to pathfinder rogue equivalent)
Class skills: Acrobatics, appraise, bluff, craft, diplomacy, disable device, escape artist, knowledge (arcane, local), linguistics, perception, sense motiuve, sleight of hand, spellcraft, stealth, use magic device. (resorted to pathfinder equivilents)
Skill points: 8+ INT (increased to same as rogue)
Weave in the rogue talents; I was thinking perhaps a rogue talent at levels 4, 8, 12, 16 (adding Advanced Talents) and 20. This gives him half the talents of a rogue, matching the half sneak attack he gets.
Steal abilities still require a successful sneak attack BUT do not require the sacrifice of the 1d6 sneak attack damage.

What do you think?


Cat-thulhu wrote:
Nero24200 wrote:
The problem with the spell-theif is that it's a situational class. Against mages, the theif can be too powerful, outwith mages it's a lesser rogue.

Wouldn't that also be true of the Ranger, albeit slightly less so under Pathfinder. If the DM doesn’t present the favoured enemies or favoured terrain he’s a lesser being. If there was a spellthief in the party I’d think the DM would include spell users often, much like the DM uses a Rangers favoured enemies to allow the Ranger to make full use of his very situational bonuses.

I agree with Nero24200 here: the Spellthief is a situational class; it's really good against mages, but in most other respects it's not quite as good (but not bad). I think that the Ranger also has this problem, but as a DM I'm willing to work with players to really make them shine every now and then. I just think that making them perform in such a way is a poor idea on the designers part.

I had a Spellthief in one of my older campaigns, and it was actually pretty good. Unfortunately, I didn't often supply it with the necessary spellcasters to make him really awesome, but he got to steal a spell once or twice, and his sneak attack combined with our Bard's buffs made him a great impromptu rogue when we needed him to be. All in all, I would think the changes you made to it keep it pretty good and up to par (on some level).


Cat-thulhu wrote:


I would make these changes to bring it in line with Pathfinder...
Change HD to d8 (up to pathfinder rogue equivalent)
Class skills: Acrobatics, appraise, bluff, craft, diplomacy, disable device, escape artist, knowledge (arcane, local), linguistics, perception, sense motiuve, sleight of hand, spellcraft, stealth, use magic device. (resorted to pathfinder equivilents)
Skill points: 8+ INT (increased to same as rogue)
Weave in the rogue talents; I was thinking perhaps a rogue talent at levels 4, 8, 12, 16 (adding Advanced Talents) and 20. This gives him half the talents of a rogue, matching the half sneak attack he gets.
Steal abilities still require a successful sneak attack BUT do not require the sacrifice of the 1d6 sneak attack damage.
What do you think?

Seems alright, though I'd keep the sacrificing sneak attack aspect - Power isn't an issue against spell-casters for this class anyway.

I'd be tempted to create some "Spell-theif only" talents, and likewise say that there are certain talents more suited to the rogue that they can't take, just to enforce a little more of a difference, though thats just me, the class would still stand out on it's own pretty well without that.


Well remember the spell thief gets to the point that spells aren't all he can still: Even golems have spell like abilities, and resistances/immunities that are up for grabs when a spell thief is near, and this is much more the case in pathfinder. Undead abilities can be grabbed too depending on their type and I think that's a huge things that can easily get missed with the spell thief -- if they (the enemy) has an ability the spell thief can probably steal it.


Best class ever in any Drow campaign!!!

About every critter in the underdark got some power you can steal, then burn for awesome effects if using the drow book's feats. (You can burns uses of innate drow's spell like abilities for more interresting effects with those feats.)

The player had a "portable prison" with chained critters inside, and was the jailmaster of our drow house. He could access his "powers" about anytime, or just ask others to lend him about anything he needed (with a good reason, we are talking about Drows...)

He was the best spellcaster killer I have ever seen in any game.

But, if you play in a very human setting, not that good.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I revised the spellthief a bit. I see their role as a mageslayer, and tried to add talents that would emphasize that. I also see them as somewhat of a poor man's duskblade, and played that up a bit too.

Spellthief

BAB: +3/4
Good Saves: Will
Hit Dice: 1d8

Class Skills: Acrobatics, Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Fly, Intimidate, Knowledge arcana, Knowledge local, Linguistics, Perception, Profession, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Stealth, Swim, Use Magic Device.

Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + Int modifier

Spellthieves are proficient in all Simple Weapons, all Light Martial Weapons, and Light Armor.

Spellthieves use the Paladin spells per day table. They may select spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard list from the schools of Abjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Illusion, and Transmutation.

LEVEL ABILITY
1. Sneak Attack +1d6, Steal Spell (0-1st), Trapfinding
2. Spellgrace +1, Steal Spell Effect, Talent
3. Steal Energy Resistance 10
4. Steal Spell (2nd), Talent
5. Sneak Attack +2d6, Steal Spell-like Ability
6. Steal Spell (3rd), Talent
7. Absorb Spell
8. Steal Spell (4th), Talent
9. Sneak Attack +3d6, Arcane Sight
10. Steal Spell (5th), Advanced Talents, Talent
11. Spell Grace +2, Steal Energy Resistance 20
12. Steal Spell (6th), Talent
13. Sneak Attack +4d6, Discover Spells
14. Steal Spell (7th), Talent
15. Steal Spell Resistance
16. Steal Spell (8th), Talent
17. Sneak Attack +5d6, Greater Arcane Sight
18. Steal Spell (9th), Talent
19. Steal Energy Resistance 30
20. Absorb Spell (immediate casting), Spellgrace +3, Talent

Talents. At 2nd level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the Spellthief gains one talent from the list below.

Channel Spell (Su). As the duskblade ability. The spellthief must be at least 4th level to choose this Talent.

Cantrips (Sp). The spellthief learns a number of cantrips equal to his Charisma bonus (minimum 1).

Disrupt Caster (Ex). If the spellthief successfully sneak attacks a target capable of casting spells or using spell-like abilities, the target suffers a penalty equal to the spellthief's number of sneak attack dice on caster level checks for 1 minute.

Disrupt Concentration (Ex). If the spellthief successfully sneak attacks a target capable of casting spells or using spell-like abilities, the target suffers a penalty equal to twice the spellthief's number of sneak attack dice on Concentration checks to Cast Defensively for as long as the spellthief threatens the target.

Familiar (Su). The spellthief gains a familiar as if he had a wizard level equal to his spellthief class level.

Focusing Attack (Ex). If the spellthief successfully sneak attacks a target, for 1 minute the target suffers a penalty equal to the number of sneak attack dice the spellthief has on Saving Throws for any spells the spellthief casts on the target.

Spell Power (Ex). If the spellthief successfully sneak attacks a target, for 1 minute, he gains a bonus on caster level checks to overcome the target's Spell Resistance equal to the number of sneak attack dice the spellthief has.

Advanced Talents. Beginning at 10th level, the Spellthief adds the following Advanced Talents to the list of Talents he may choose from.

Anchoring Attack (Su). Opponents that are dealt sneak attack damage by a spellthief with this ability are affected by a Dimensional Anchor. The caster level for this effect is equal to the spellthief's level.

Banishing Attack (Su). Opponents that are dealt sneak attack damage by a spellthief with this ability are affected by a Banishment. The caster level for this effect is equal to the spellthief's level. The spellthief must have the Anchoring Attack talent before choosing this talent.

Disjoining Attack (Su). Opponents that are dealt sneak attack damage by a spellthief with this ability cannot use any spellcasting, spell-like, or supernatural abilities for 1 round. The spellthief must have the Greater Dispelling Attack talent before selecting this talent.

Dispelling Attack (Su). Opponents that are dealt sneak attack damage by a spellthief with this ability are affected by a targeted Dispel Magic, targeting the lowest-level spell effect active on the target. The caster level for this ability is equal to the spellthief's level.

Forbidden Magic (Ex). The spellthief adds a single spell, upto the highest level spell he can cast, to his list of spells known. This spell must be of the Conjuration, Evocation, or Necromancy school. The spellthief may select this Talent multiple times, selecting a different spell each time.

Greater Dispelling Attack (Su). Opponents that are dealt sneak attack damage by a spellthief with this ability are affected by a targeted Greater Dispel Magic, targeting the lowest-level spell effect active on the target. The caster level for this ability is equal to the spellthief's level. The spellthief must have the Dispelling Attack talent before selecting this talent.

Greater Necrotic Attack (Su). Opponents that are dealt sneak attack damage by a spellthief with this ability cannot benefit from any magical healing for 1 hour per level of the spellthief.

Impromptu Sneak Attack (Ex). Once per day, the spellthief can declare one melee or ranged attack he makes to be a sneak attack (the target can be no more than 30 feet distant if the impromptu sneak attack is a ranged attack). The target of an impromptu sneak attack loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, but only against that attack. The power can be used against any target, but creatures that are not subject to critical hits take no extra damage (though they still lose any Dexterity bonus to AC against this attack). The spellthief may select this talent multiple times, each time gaining 1 additional daily use of this ability.

Necrotic Attack (Su). Opponents that are dealt sneak attack damage by a spellthief with this ability are forced to make a saving throw against the effects of any conjuration (healing) effect for 1 hour per level of the spellthief.

Quick Cast (Ex). Once per day, the spellthief can cast any spell he knows as a swift action, as if using the metamagic feat Quicken Spell, without increasing the level of the spell.

Skill Mastery (Ex). As the rogue ability with the same name.

Slippery Mind (Ex). As the rogue ability with the same name.

Spellbreaker (Ex). The spellthief gains Spellbreaker as a bonus feat. He does not need to meet the requirements of the feat to select this talent.

Sudden Metamagic (Ex). Once per day, the spellthief can apply any metamagic feat he knows to a single spell he casts without increasing the level of the spell or the casting time.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Oooo - there are some nice ones in there! The Spellthief player in my game wanted to be more of a thieving sorceror type - so I gave him Bard spell progression and it hasn't caused any trouble or seemed unbalanced yet. (Now 10th level)

I made up one for 3rd level he wanted to steal a spell without sneaking. We couldn't figure out a way to let him do this (I may just be blind) and invented the following.

Blatant Theft: Beginning at 3rd level, a spellthief can use a standard action to attack any spellcaster to steal any un-cast spell or spells that the target has. If they hit, they deal normal damage and can attempt to use their Steal Spell ability as if they had made a successful sneak attack. The target receives a Will save to deny this (much more obvious) assault. The SR of the Will Save is 10 + 1/2 Spell Thief level + Spell Thief's Int bonus.

Looking back, I might allow it to steal active spells too.


carborundum wrote:

Oooo - there are some nice ones in there! The Spellthief player in my game wanted to be more of a thieving sorceror type - so I gave him Bard spell progression and it hasn't caused any trouble or seemed unbalanced yet. (Now 10th level)

I made up one for 3rd level he wanted to steal a spell without sneaking. We couldn't figure out a way to let him do this (I may just be blind) and invented the following.

Blatant Theft: Beginning at 3rd level, a spellthief can use a standard action to attack any spellcaster to steal any un-cast spell or spells that the target has. If they hit, they deal normal damage and can attempt to use their Steal Spell ability as if they had made a successful sneak attack. The target receives a Will save to deny this (much more obvious) assault. The SR of the Will Save is 10 + 1/2 Spell Thief level + Spell Thief's Int bonus.

Looking back, I might allow it to steal active spells too.

I really liked the idea behind your ability (good job!), so I have attempted to retool it in an effort to expand its capabilities while keeping it reasonably balanced.

Blatant Theft: Beginning at 3rd level, a spellthief may attempt to steal the abilities of his enemies through more direct means. As part of a standard attack action, a spellthief can attempt to use their Steal Spell, Steal Spell Effect, Steal Spell-like Ability, Steal Energy Resistance, or Steal Spell Resistance ability as if they had made a successful sneak attack. The spellthief must declare which ability he is using prior to resolving the attack. If the spellthief hits, they deal normal damage and the target receives a Will save to resist this ability. The SR of the Will Save is 10 + 1/2 the spellthief's level + the spellthief's Cha bonus. A spellthief may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier.

As I said, I really like this ability, but I also like SmiloDan's spellthief, so I'm throwing that ability on his remake for my campaign.

In terms of extra Talents for SmiloDan's very awesome remake, here's an idea for a regular one:

Arcane Guile: As an immediate action, a spellthief can redirect any spell or spell-like ability (assuming he's of the right level) targeting an ally within 30ft upon himself. A spellthief can redirect touch spells in this way. Such spells use their original attack roll against the spellthief's AC. A spellthief may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier.

At a first glance, you may think "...Wait, what?!?"--Look closer! The idea behind this ability is that it can be used in conjunction with the Spellthief's Absorb Spell ability. However, because it's an immediate action, it's impossible for a spellthief to redirect a spell absorbed in this manner on the round that he absorbed it. I haven't decided whether or not that's a good thing yet, but there's always room for an advanced talent to beef it up (with some other added benefits, of course).

And here's an idea for an unrelated Advanced Talent:

Arcane Vigor: Through his constant exposure to spells, a spellthief has learned true control over their energies, using them to restore his own natural spellcasting abilities. Once per day as a full round action, a spellthief may expend any number of his stolen or absorbed spells, breaking them up into their component energies. With this energy, a spellthief may regain his choice of spell slots up to a total spell level less than or equal to the combined spell level of the spells expended. This ability may not be used to exceed the maximum spells per day that a character can cast (IE you can't use it to gain "extra" slots on top of your regular ones).

This ability may not be the most well-worded, so I apologize. Also, if once per day is seemingly on the weak side of things, you could try adding another 1-2 uses.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I think a Spellthief can already do the second thing. When they steal a spell, they can either re-cast the spell, or use the spell energy to cast one of the spells they know from the spellthief list, provided the stolen spell level is at least as high as the spellthief spell. A spellthief can hold a number of spell levels in ready like this equal to his class level.


SmiloDan wrote:
I think a Spellthief can already do the second thing. When they steal a spell, they can either re-cast the spell, or use the spell energy to cast one of the spells they know from the spellthief list, provided the stolen spell level is at least as high as the spellthief spell. A spellthief can hold a number of spell levels in ready like this equal to his class level.

I might have been mistaken on that one. It's been a while since I looked at the write up of the spellthief's abilities.

What's everyone's opinion on giving the spellthief bard casting progression?

Also, I'll direct everybody's attention to this remake of the spellthief:

Spellthief (click the spellthief hyperlink on the post)

A few noteworthy changes in this spellthief remake:

1) A spellthief can keep stealing spell resistance (in a minor way)
2) The progression of Spellgrace now takes it to +5 by level 20
3) There are a few good ideas for talents and advanced talents
4) There is a capstone ability at level 20 (I think it may be a bit on the complicated/broken side)

In short, I think SmiloDan's Spellthief is way better, but there are a few good ideas that could be garnered from the other and applied to his. We should develop a capstone ability to keep players interested in the class for all 20 levels.

I'd really love to see what you'd do to the Incarnate and MoI, SmiloDan hahah.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Talon77 wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:
I think a Spellthief can already do the second thing. When they steal a spell, they can either re-cast the spell, or use the spell energy to cast one of the spells they know from the spellthief list, provided the stolen spell level is at least as high as the spellthief spell. A spellthief can hold a number of spell levels in ready like this equal to his class level.

I might have been mistaken on that one. It's been a while since I looked at the write up of the spellthief's abilities.

What's everyone's opinion on giving the spelltheif bard casting progression?

Since my spellstalker is based around bard spell progression, I don't think it would be much of a problem.

As an aside, anyone thought about writing up some of the spellthief's abilities as rogue talents.


What are you trying to accomplish with the spell thief that you can not with an Arcane Trickster?


Anderlorn wrote:
What are you trying to accomplish with the spell thief that you can not with an Arcane Trickster?

Erm...a class avaliable from level one onwards?

A class that can steal spells?

A class able to fill the "Mage hunter role"?


Nero24200 wrote:
Anderlorn wrote:
What are you trying to accomplish with the spell thief that you can not with an Arcane Trickster?

Erm...a class avaliable from level one onwards?

A class that can steal spells?

A class able to fill the "Mage hunter role"?

Roger, you like to harass wizards ... lol

Sounds like an unhealthy job... :)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I think the Absorb Spell (Immediate Casting) is one heck of a capstone ability! But I also made some epic level feats for the Spellthief that might not be too "epicky" and able to add to a Pathfinderized spellthief without getting too uber.

One was Absorb Area Effect. This let the spellthief use their absorb spell ability on area effects they were affected by....so they could get fireballed, absorb it, and then launch it back at who cast it at them. Others in the original Area of Effect would still suffer from the fireball.

The other was Devour Area Effect. If the spellthief successfully absorbed an area of effect spell, the whole spell would be negated (and absorbed by the spellthief, allowing him to launch back at its original caster or whatever).

Maybe change the spellthief to:

7. Absorb Spell
11. Absorb Area Spell
15. Absorb Spell (immediate casting)
20. Devour Area Spell

Also, what's an Incarnate and MoI? Psionics? I know squat about them.


SmiloDan wrote:

I think the Absorb Spell (Immediate Casting) is one heck of a capstone ability! But I also made some epic level feats for the Spellthief that might not be too "epicky" and able to add to a Pathfinderized spellthief without getting too uber.

One was Absorb Area Effect. This let the spellthief use their absorb spell ability on area effects they were affected by....so they could get fireballed, absorb it, and then launch it back at who cast it at them. Others in the original Area of Effect would still suffer from the fireball.

The other was Devour Area Effect. If the spellthief successfully absorbed an area of effect spell, the whole spell would be negated (and absorbed by the spellthief, allowing him to launch back at its original caster or whatever).

Maybe change the spellthief to:

7. Absorb Spell
11. Absorb Area Spell
15. Absorb Spell (immediate casting)
20. Devour Area Spell

Also, what's an Incarnate and MoI? Psionics? I know squat about them.

Those are some pretty good ideas. They don't seem too ridiculous at a first glance, but I do kind of wonder how powerful they'd be when you played them out.

To answer your question, the Incarnate was a class from what is (at least in my opinion) one of the coolest ideas for an alternative magic system--Magic of Incarnum (MoI). To give you the basic gist, here's a link to the product spotlight from wizards of the coast:

Magic of Incarnum

The Incarnate was basically a cross between a cleric and a wizard for the purposes of the system. The biggest complaint people had with the incarnate was the fact that it wasn't as viable in combat as it really should have been. Most people thought that the Incarnate deserved 3/4ths BAB instead of 1/2 (among other issues). Consequently, the Totemist (the book's druid) got all of the attention.

I would love to see some of the soulmelds and the Incarnate converted to Pathfinder.


I think you guys have missed one of the spell thiefs biggest powers: The ability to "borrow" spells from other players. The rules state that if the steal target is willing, a spellthief can steal with just a touch.

I play a spellthief in my current campaign, and this has allowed me to act as backup for both the partys wizard and cleric. At times we have wanted massive upfront damage, so i borrow a fireball or cone of cold from the wizard, and we cast together. Another time the cleric had been knocked to negative HP so i borrowed one of her healing spells to fix her with. This versitility has made me an extremely useful party member. (of course, my party has to stop me from trying to swipe spells from friendly npcs all the time... im nuts)

of course i powergamed a bit by adding the Master Thrower prestege class. my charecter is a knife throwing halfling that uses the thrower skill tricks to insure a sneak attack on every attack. combined with the poison on my knives and i can handle almost anything living.

Grand Lodge

Cat-thulhu wrote:

I would make these changes to bring it in line with Pathfinder...

Change HD to d8 (up to pathfinder rogue equivalent)
Class skills: Acrobatics, appraise, bluff, craft, diplomacy, disable device, escape artist, knowledge (arcane, local), linguistics, perception, sense motiuve, sleight of hand, spellcraft, stealth, use magic device. (resorted to pathfinder equivilents)
Skill points: 8+ INT (increased to same as rogue)
Weave in the rogue talents; I was thinking perhaps a rogue talent at levels 4, 8, 12, 16 (adding Advanced Talents) and 20. This gives him half the talents of a rogue, matching the half sneak attack he gets.
Steal abilities still require a successful sneak attack BUT do not require the sacrifice of the 1d6 sneak attack damage.

What do you think?

Not bad, but I'd leave the skill points at the original 6+INT. Afterall, you're going to update your spells which are now 4/4/3/3 and you're now CL -3 for caster levels instead of half, just as the Ranger and Paladin went up.


Here is my Pathfinder conversion for Spellthief from Complete Adventurer.

Many people have great conversion ideas but they are typically unrefined and definitely overpowered. An advantage of preparing a conversion after everybody else is you can scour the internet to compare notes and versions, then combine and refine them to make the best conversion. That is what I’ve done here. It’s nicely presented, not over-powered, and strives to remain true to the original class. It even includes a notes section so DMs and players can see a summary of exactly what’s changed for the conversion.

Some of you may see your ideas represented in the Talents section.

Have fun
Cheers


Silke wrote:

Here is my Pathfinder conversion for Spellthief from Complete Adventurer.

Many people have great conversion ideas but they are typically unrefined and definitely overpowered. An advantage of preparing a conversion after everybody else is you can scour the internet to compare notes and versions, then combine and refine them to make the best conversion. That is what I’ve done here. It’s nicely presented, not over-powered, and strives to remain true to the original class. It even includes a notes section so DMs and players can see a summary of exactly what’s changed for the conversion.

Some of you may see your ideas represented in the Talents section.

Have fun
Cheers

This is one of the best conversions I've seen. I'm glad you kept the class true to its original. I've seen many conversions that weren't really a conversion, but more of a re-imagining. It's nicely laid out with useful sidebars, and a list of changes rounds out this nice package. Excellent work!


Great Job Silke I dont really like the class in general but this is another great Pathfinder Conversion

Are you planning on doing any more or just this one and the Warmage?


Thanks for the kind words Soullos/Joey Virtue.

I’m about to start a new L1-20 Pathfinder campaign in Drowtales* world setting and have a player who wants a Spellthief; hence the conversion work.
“I don’t really like the class in general” was my first reaction upon reading the class a couple of years ago. Having worked on it so much lately I think better of the class now but still see it as ‘high maintenance’ for both the Player and DM.

Tip: For a personal spellthief character, my 5 talent choices would be: Cantrip (Detect Magic), Disrupt Caster, Dispelling Attack, Disruptive & Spellbreaker (in that order).

Conversions are done as needed. I’ve had my eye on the Ninja from Complete Adventurer for a while. The good news is this that conversion won’t require nearly as much work. The best ninja conversion I've found is here. Representation and a tweak of this build (to bring it closer to the original class) is about all that’s needed for this one.

* If you want to see one of my race conversions go here and download Prydaen (Feral) Pathfinder Conversion.pdf (direct link). It's a cool feline humanoid PC race from Drowtales universe.


The pic kills it for me


True the first pic is a bit cutesy but did you look at the last pic?
If pictures make the difference for you then here is the tough version.

Anyway that race conversion is too obscure for regular Pathfinder folks – it’s probably best to stick to Paizo/WotC rewrites on this forum.

Cheers


Silke wrote:
It's a cool feline humanoid PC race from Drowtales universe.

Actually, they're from a MUD/text MMO called DragonRealms. HERE is the info page. From what I can tell, DrowTales started in '01, while Prydaen were sometime in '98 or '99. Just FYI, not meaning anything by this post except to correct the original source.


That is impressive Zurai.
'Feral' is from Drowtales and 'Prydaen' are indeed from DragonRealms. I used information from DragonRealms to expand and hone the accuracy of my write-up for the feral race. I didn’t mention that DragonRealms (and hence Prydaen) came before Drowtales but you are right on that point.


Ahhh, OK. Like I said, my post was just for informational purposes. I played DR for a long time, so the word "Prydaen" caught my eye.


FYI, the Spellthief (and Beguiler), were discussed on 3.5 Private Sanctuary (podcast), Episode 114. Updating to Pathfinder was discussed if I recall correctly.


It was pointed out that my download link (from Apr 22, 2010, 01:15 PM above) is no longer available. Here is my conversion from 2010:

Spellthief Class Pathfinder Conversion

I put a fair bit of effort into researching and comparing it to other Pathfinder Spellthief conversions available at that time.
Paizo's Sandman Bard Archetype is available if your game is limited to using official Pathfinder material.


Dotting for future reading and reviewing!

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