Scout Conversion


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Freesword wrote:
Brian Leichty wrote:
It works well in games based in 3rd and 3.5, but is very difficult to convert to the Pathfinder system, as I have learned because I am playing one in a Play by Post game on here. The Skirmish ability that the Scout has is not really like a Sneak Attack like the Rogue gets because it was designed to add additional damage to targets that are in the Scout's line of attack, whereas Sneak Attack only works against a Single opponent.

Nothing in the description of the skirmish ability in Complete Adventurer mentions anything about the scout's "line of attack". Where are you getting this from?

Brian Leichty wrote:


And BTW, Skirmish only works with MELEE WEAPONS, not RANGED WEAPONS.

I don't know what rules you are using, but the description of the skirmish ability in Complete Adventurer clearly states:

Complete Adventurer wrote:
Scouts can apply this extra damage to ranged attacks made while skirmishing, but only if the target is within 30 feet.
Are you sure you aren't confusing the Scout class from Complete Adventurer with one from another source or possibly some DM's house rules?

How often are you going to be using a Ranged Weapon? More often than not, you are more than likely going to be using some sort of Melee Weapon. The only time you might use a Ranged Weapon would be if you had an enemy that was a good distance away and couldn't close the distance easily.

I am not confusing the Scout with anything else. There are no so-called "House rules" that I am basing this from. It has been over a year and a half since I have had to know this information, so I admit I may have forgotten some of it. But I am fairly certain that I am correct.


Brian Leichty wrote:
Zurai wrote:
Brian Leichty wrote:
And BTW, Skirmish only works with MELEE WEAPONS, not RANGED WEAPONS.
Uh, no, wrong. Nowhere is the word "melee weapon" even mentioned in the Scout class entry. In fact, it explicitly says "Scouts can apply this extra damage to ranged attacks made while skirmishing, but only if the target is within 30 feet".

The book says,"She deals an extra 1d6 of damage on ALL attacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet."

It says that the damage can be APPLIED with ranged weapons, but only if the target is within 30 feet of the person with the ranged weapon. There are lots of different ranged weapons, and they all have different ranges, but how often are you going to be using a ranged weapon. More often than not, you'll be using a Melee weapon of some sort.

I have a guy who always multiclasses Warlock/Scout. He always uses ranged attacks (heck, he even buys bows and has a magic aura put on them so he can make it look like the bow is firing his Warlock blast). So, for him, he's always using a ranged attack.

And on a side note, I've played a scout before, and I had a double bandolere of knives (for throwing at things in 30 feet), a long sword, a buckler, and a short bow. Which weapon did I use the most? The bow. I would move 30 feet from combat, use precise shot, do full damage, next round, acrobatics my way out of any threatened areas I was in, go to 30, and fire again.


Brian Leichty wrote:

The book says,"She deals an extra 1d6 of damage on ALL attacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet."

It says that the damage can be APPLIED with ranged weapons, but only if the target is within 30 feet of the person with the ranged weapon. There are lots of different ranged weapons, and they all have different ranges, but how often are you going to be using a ranged weapon. More often than not, you'll be using a Melee weapon of some sort.

Big difference between that and

Brian Leichty wrote:
And BTW, Skirmish only works with MELEE WEAPONS, not RANGED WEAPONS.
Brian Leichty wrote:

How often are you going to be using a Ranged Weapon? More often than not, you are more than likely going to be using some sort of Melee Weapon. The only time you might use a Ranged Weapon would be if you had an enemy that was a good distance away and couldn't close the distance easily.

I am not confusing the Scout with anything else. There are no so-called "House rules" that I am basing this from. It has been over a year and a half since I have had to know this information, so I admit I may have forgotten some of it. But I am fairly certain that I am correct.

Players of scouts commonly stay out of melee to avoid provoking attacks of opportunity when they move 10 feet. Stay 20 feet back, each round move 10 feet to the side and shoot. Get the damage at no risk. Although I will grant you that in general the rules have traditionally favored melee over ranged weapons. It may well be that in your personal experience you haven't seen scouts using ranged weapons, but it is actually one of the better classes for focusing on ranged attacks due to skirmish.

Don't take my comments as an attack, but as an attempt to understand why your reference to the rules differs from what I am reading. Your statements left me rather confused and I just recently converted the class to Pathfinder so I am fairly familiar with how it works. I've misremembered enough rules myself and understand that it can happen.

Grand Lodge

I still advocate a scout does not need a full attack action to bring his power in line with other classes..

lets take 3 examples...

9th level rogue gets 2 attacks per round (3 with TWF) during a round against a flat-footed (flanked, or otherwise dex denied) opponent he can dish out +5d6 damage to each attack totaling +10d6 (+15d6) with each attack at +6/+1 (or +4/+4/-1). This damage relies on the opponents positioning (or ability to detect the rogue) and resistances to sneak attack (1 restriction 1 requirement).

A 9th level paladin with smite evil can deal +9 damage to 3 evil targets per day +18 if they are evil subtype outsider, undead or a dragon. With a Full attack action he can attack twice (3 times with TWF) doing a total of +18 damage (+27) with each attack at +9/+4 (or +7/+7/+2). the damage applies to a specific type of creature and requires activation by the paladin to use a very limited number of times per day which would mostly be saved only for the BBEG fights (1 requirement 1 severe limitation).

a 9th level scout gets 1 attack per round with a bow using skirmish against any opponent as long as the scout has moved 10 ft (20 ft if he has the improved skirmish feat). The bonus damage for this attack is +3d6 (+5d6) with an attack of +6. This damage applies to all opponents that dont have a resistance to sneak attack. (1 restriction 1 requirement)

The rogue has the most damage per round potential as long as he can perform a full attack on a target that is denied dex to ac and vulnerable to sneak attacks. while the vulnerability side has increased in the rogues favor the position to deny dex lasting long enough for the rogue to perform a full attack with sneak damage to do so generally relies on some magic or another PC to provide the flank.

The paladin has the largest minimum damage output of all three but his is restricted to one oppoenent and only 3 per day. this is not in favor of the average encounter progression per day meaning he will have times where he has used it on a foe which does quicker than anticipated. at best its only going to last for 4-5 rounds of attacks.

The scout however can do his bonus damage from the first arrow in a combat to the last arrow as long as he has space to move. at 9th level he has a 40 ft base movement rate and Flawless stride ignoring difficult terrain, making movement very easy regardless of the environment.

Lets use the Encounter Example in the Core Rulebook...

PRD wrote:
The PCs have an APL of 9, and table 12–1 tells you that a challenging encounter for your APL 9 group is a CR 10 encounter—worth 9,600 XP according to Table: Experience Point Awards. At CR 8, the stone giant is worth 4,800 XP, leaving you with another 4,800 points in your XP budget for the gargoyles. Gargoyles are CR 4 each, and thus worth 1,200 XP apiece, meaning that the encounter can support four gargoyles in its XP budget. You could further refine the encounter by including only three gargoyles, leaving you with 1,200 XP to spend on a trio of Small earth elemental servants (at CR 1, each is worth 400 XP) to further aid the stone giant.

The Paladin will likely use his Smite evil against the stone giant, the rogue however will have a hard time keeping this large creature flanked without having to move more than 5 ft per round reducing his sneak damage to a single attack per round.

an average stone giant has 119 hps, the paladin can deal an average 30 hps with a two handed weapon smiting evil assuming a good chance to hit. the rogue however will have a much harder time getting enough to make his second attack land let alone if he uses TWF against the 25 AC of a stone giant. I'd estimate 5 rounds to kill this creature between the two. The scout on the other hand can stay out of the giants reach of attacks and deal an average of 25 points of damage per round with the same chance as a rogue to hit (putting the two on par damage wise against the giant)

The gargoyles ability to fly will make flanking almost impossible for the rogue and the paladin is unlikely to use smite evil on these minions. however the scout will likely deal with these first while the paladin and rogue keep the stonegiant occupied.

The gargoyles average 37 hit points but their DR of 10/magic is likely easily overcome for a 9th level party. Given an average damage of 25 hps vs 16 AC the scout will fell one gargoyle every two rounds but he could kill in a single round. The rogue would likely loose his sneak attack damage against the gargoyles so its likely going to take him 4-5 rounds to kill a single gargoyle even with a decent bow, however hes more than likely to deal with the gargoyles in melee suffering hits but increasing his damage with a full attack. The paladin wont be using smite on these critters but will have a better chance of hitting them over the rogue and scout. If they remain in the air his damage will be low but steady but if they decend into melee he will have great opportunities to increase his damage via power attack due to the AC of 16.

Now if we consider the trio of earth elementals at 11 hps and 17 AC The Paladin is likely to do more damage with power attack than the rogue of scout since they are immune to critical hits, sneak attack and flanking. however at 11 hps most wont last more than 1 round. In fact the scout is likely to stand still and use manyshot or rapid shot and his full BAB to drop the elementals quicker especially if the paladin and rogue rush in to deal with them up close and personal.

As I have said before the scout damage bonus has far fewer limitations than the other classes even against this variety of opponents. If you give the scout the ability to move and full attack with skirmish he will out damage the rogue and paladin on the stonegiant and could even split his weaker attacks over the elementals and gargolyes reducing the average length of this fight but up to 4 rounds!

--------------------------------------------
I would openly advocate an ability that lets the scout use manyshot as a standard action granting an additional arrow without the added skirmish damage at say 8th level or even consider making many shot an attack action for the scout at 12th level so he could fire two arrows for each base attack he gets, this could be a possible 8 arrows at 20th level! But beyond that the full attack rate should remain a full round action.

lastly one thing that people often forget about the scout is his skirmish is also viable for melee attacks and while difficult to maintain on one opponent due to the movement restriction, on a crowded battlefield with tumble and the improved AC bonus the scout gets he can move from target to target with little fear of retaliation. with the spring attack feat not provoking from your target this allows alot more freedom for a melee based scout.

Grand Lodge

Freesword wrote:
Brian Leichty wrote:
Stuff
Stuff

Freesword is correct on this - sneak attack and sudden strike (ninja) says "Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks (sudden strikes) only if the target is within 30 feet."

Skirmish says "Scouts can apply this extra damage to ranged attacks made while skirmishing, but only if the target is within 30 feet."

different phrasing but exactly the same meaning.

Regarding ranged weapons over melee - I have generally found ranged weapons far more commonplace than melee. simply because 9 times out of 10 you end up with the fighter blocking the doorway into a room to reduce attacks and the rest of the party have to resort to either casting spells into the room or using ranged attacks. this is where the scout excells since he can move back and forth in a 5 ft wide corridor shooting an arrow every round with the extra skirmish damage. even a rogue cant compete unless someone causes the target to lose its dex.


Quijenoth wrote:
Freesword wrote:
Brian Leichty wrote:
Stuff
Stuff

Freesword is correct on this - sneak attack and sudden strike (ninja) says "Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks (sudden strikes) only if the target is within 30 feet."

Skirmish says "Scouts can apply this extra damage to ranged attacks made while skirmishing, but only if the target is within 30 feet."

different phrasing but exactly the same meaning.

Regarding ranged weapons over melee - I have generally found ranged weapons far more commonplace than melee. simply because 9 times out of 10 you end up with the fighter blocking the doorway into a room to reduce attacks and the rest of the party have to resort to either casting spells into the room or using ranged attacks. this is where the scout excells since he can move back and forth in a 5 ft wide corridor shooting an arrow every round with the extra skirmish damage. even a rogue cant compete unless someone causes the target to lose its dex.

Such as... hiding behind cover and sniping past the fighter every round? Or having the mage hit him with improved invisibility? Or finding a way to get hide in plain sight?

Oh, or here's one.

Having grease cast under the target.

Honestly Quijenoth, a rogue that isn't getting sneak attack isn't trying.


Quijenoth, don't forget that a number of spells spells including web or grease can can effectively restrict the scout's movement as well as having an opponent grapple them. Also:

Complete Adventurer wrote:
The scout must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot.

Meaning concealment would also counter skirmish just as it does sneak attack. Additionally as of the errata (which Wizards calls updates), skirmish cannot be used while mounted.

With regard to the fighter standing in the doorway, this tactic varies from group to group. I've played in melee heavy parties where in that situation we would try to push past the fighter into the room unless heavily outnumbered (no less than 2:1 or possibly higher depending on what we were fighting) to maximize damage on our opponents.

On the other hand, 9 times out of 10 I've seen rogues get their sneak attack damage on anything that wasn't immune.

Different tactics.

I've played with a very offense oriented group that believed that fights are usually won by maximum damage on the opponent as quickly as possible.

Sneak attack damage advances twice as fast as skirmish, can be used on all attacks in a round, and I repeat what has already been said:

kyrt-ryder wrote:
Honestly Quijenoth, a rogue that isn't getting sneak attack isn't trying.


Quijenoth wrote:
this is where the scout excells since he can move back and forth in a 5 ft wide corridor shooting an arrow every round with the extra skirmish damage.

Not with the stacking cover penalties, he can't. He'll never hit anything. Just having the fighter blocking the door is giving him a -4 to hit. He gets another -4 to hit for every other creature (including other party members) in between him and his target. I've been in that situation with a scout and believe me, it sucked royally. I had to roll a 20 to hit enemies I'd normally hit on 8s.

Grand Lodge

I admit soft cover can be a problem for a scout if he cant get a clear shot to his target. concealment and movement hindering effects are already built into the class though with blindsense at 10th, blindsight at 20th and free movement at 18th.

sniping is a viable option for a rogue to sneak attack from range given the appropriate cover (hiding behind the fighter doesnt actually work because its Soft cover) unless you have HiPS which is a high level ranger ability or gained via some prestige classes.

As for grease and invisibility this falls into the same category as flanking - you require someone else to accomplish it. A scout can accomplish alot more if given help just like any other class. Having the ability to fly greatly improves maneuverability, having a seeking bow ignores concealment and even spending copious amounts of skill points to use magic device so I can cast scrolls of true strike have all entered my mind. while quite commonplace I dont think they are correct arguments to use in a comparison hense why I didn't use them myself.

Zurai wrote:
Not with the stacking cover penalties, he can't. He'll never hit anything. Just having the fighter blocking the door is giving him a -4 to hit. He gets another -4 to hit for every other creature (including other party members) in between him and his target. I've been in that situation with a scout and believe me, it sucked royally. I had to roll a 20 to hit enemies I'd normally hit on 8s.

I'm not quite sure where your getting this from but as far as im aware cover penalties do not stack. you either have cover or you don't.

If your refering to improved cover then I would consider talking with your DM because granting an opponent a +4 reflex save and the improved evasion ability just because more than 2 people are between you and the target might annoy the spellcasters in the group who spend most of their career at the back of the party.


KaeYoss wrote:


Freesword wrote:


The only addition I would (and did) make is an ability that allows the scout to move 10' with a 5' step, allowing them to use their skirmish with a full attack.
Personally, I think this completely defeats the skirmish ability's purpose. I'd certainly not allow anything even approaching this in my games.

This can already be accomplished with a high enough Acrobatics check anyway, using the rules from Oriental Adventures and Epic Level Handbook. I think the DC is like 40 or something.


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

How would this conversion work with a character set-up specifically like a shock trooper?

Monkey-Grip > Large Sized Great Sword > Power Attack > Cleave

Character would charge in 10' to get his Skirmish damage + bonus to hit to negate the penalty from monkey grip and attempt to splatter two targets with a cleave. Effectively running forward with blade dragging and throwing himself into a spin and using inertia to smash his opponents with his overlarge blade.

Liberty's Edge

Marc Radle 81 wrote:

I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't mention this ... :)

There is a new Pathfinder Ranger variant in the new issue of Kobold Quarterly (issue 11) that comes out sometime later this month which might work for those that are looking for a Scout type of feel.

Just wanted to let everyone know issue 11 of Kobold Quarterly is now out. You can buy it in print form or PDF at the KQ web site or right here at Paizo.

http://www.koboldquarterly.com/

Thanks!


IMHO skirmish is sort of wacky in that it is forcing the scout to run around. I can't really imagine any situation in RL where running 10 feet around someone increases your melee or ranged damage (well maybe melee damage). It seems sorta metagame-ish.

What's wrong with good old sneak attack. You get that damage when your opponent lets their guard down. Its tried and true and certainly fits the style of a scout. The scout's increased movement and stealth abilities certainly still get used, but with sneak attack, the scout will be looking to make surprise attacks, and in party combat, flank enemies. Sneak attack FTW

Liberty's Edge

Anburaid wrote:

IMHO skirmish is sort of wacky in that it is forcing the scout to run around. I can't really imagine any situation in RL where running 10 feet around someone increases your melee or ranged damage (well maybe melee damage). It seems sorta metagame-ish.

What's wrong with good old sneak attack. You get that damage when your opponent lets their guard down. Its tried and true and certainly fits the style of a scout. The scout's increased movement and stealth abilities certainly still get used, but with sneak attack, the scout will be looking to make surprise attacks, and in party combat, flank enemies. Sneak attack FTW

I think you might want to take a look at the Pathfinder variant ranger in KQ 11 then ...

... just saying ... :)


You know, I was just about to pop into this thread to mention that very article, when I noticed I had been ninja'd . . . ;)


Wow! You all make this so complicated! Let me just mention a few key feats for the scout:

MELEE:

Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Two Weapon Pounce

Along with the needed Two Weapon Fighting feats

RANGED

Dodge
Mobility
Shot on the Run

Along with the usually needed Ranged feats.

I don't think the scout needs any modification for Pathfinder. The scout is not a "fighter" or "ranger": The scout is a "country rogue" and has the skills to match. If you update the skills list, you're good to go!

Remember guys: The core classes were revised so that they could compete with classes like the scout. Pathfinder is ment to be compatible with the 3.5 stuff: That's what makes it better than 4e! You don't have to do a bunch of unneeded conversion.

One last note on the skirmish:
The only reason skirmish didn't affect undead or constructs was that those creatures were immune to critical hits. This is no longer the case, so scouts no longer need to avoid these encounters.


Ever use weapons in the skirmish mode like a glaive, which offer a Trip capacity? If you have folks in the party that are good with d20's then you have a damn good reason to have encounters that are on the large size of 5+ combatants vs. the PC's.

Otherwise, it is move/skirmish attack, greater trip=foe is prone. Rogue follows up with sneak attack.


Umm... Looking at the post now, I think I may have put in a bit too much non-OGL stuff in that, but for some reason the delete and edit buttons aren't working for me.

So I've flagged myself.

Sorry guys.

And I missed editing out some 'rogue' references too. Gah!


Matt Devney wrote:

Umm... Looking at the post now, I think I may have put in a bit too much non-OGL stuff in that, but for some reason the delete and edit buttons aren't working for me.

So I've flagged myself.

Sorry guys.

And I missed editing out some 'rogue' references too. Gah!

I would reword the Faster Movement talent. The way it's worded now, it doesn't stack with the Fleet feat. It should just say 'This bonus to movement stacks with the bonus given by Fast Movement'. If someone is giving up feats to take Fleet, that movement bonus should also apply.

EDIT: On a side note, what I usually do for original WoTC content is just list the heading in the class, like Battle Fortitude and then either list the new and modified verbage, or list 'No Change' to avoid non OGL content.


mdt wrote:
I would reword the Faster Movement talent. The way it's worded now, it doesn't stack with the Fleet feat. It should just say 'This bonus to movement stacks with the bonus given by Fast Movement'. If someone is giving up feats to take Fleet, that movement bonus should also apply.

Hmm... I can't remember putting that 'only' clause in. That wasn't intended. That's for looking it over btw mdt.

mdt wrote:
EDIT: On a side note, what I usually do for original WoTC content is just list the heading in the class, like Battle Fortitude and then either list the new and modified verbage, or list 'No Change' to avoid non OGL content.

Yeah, I had it written up like that so I had all the notes in the same place for my character. I then just posted the whole lot to the board as-is. I'm sure it'll get sorted once the flag gets actioned.

Liberty's Edge

Interesting take on the class!


Thanks! I wanted to make it like the rogue in set-up, but include the specific scout-type abilities to make it stand out. I'm playing one at the moment, and the difference between skirmish and sneak attack are huge on the battlefield. And the scouts secondary abilities are designed to complement that difference, so I tried to do the same here.

Dark Archive

mdt wrote:
And on a side note, I've played a scout before, and I had a double bandolere of knives (for throwing at things in 30 feet), a long sword, a buckler, and a short bow. Which weapon did I use the most? The bow. I would move 30 feet from combat, use precise shot, do full damage, next round, acrobatics my way out of any threatened areas I was in, go to 30, and fire again.

Shot on the Run would have been a nice addition to this technique. I had a nice fighter/scout in LG (rest in peace) that combined skirmish and Spring Attack rather nicely.


Tensility&Momentum wrote:
mdt wrote:
And on a side note, I've played a scout before, and I had a double bandolere of knives (for throwing at things in 30 feet), a long sword, a buckler, and a short bow. Which weapon did I use the most? The bow. I would move 30 feet from combat, use precise shot, do full damage, next round, acrobatics my way out of any threatened areas I was in, go to 30, and fire again.

Shot on the Run would have been a nice addition to this technique. I had a nice fighter/scout in LG (rest in peace) that combined skirmish and Spring Attack rather nicely.

Yep, would have been very nice.

Liberty's Edge

Matt Devney wrote:
Thanks! I wanted to make it like the rogue in set-up, but include the specific scout-type abilities to make it stand out. I'm playing one at the moment, and the difference between skirmish and sneak attack are huge on the battlefield. And the scouts secondary abilities are designed to complement that difference, so I tried to do the same here.

Out of curiosity, have you by any chance seen the current issue of Kobold Quarterly?

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Matt Devney wrote:

Umm... Looking at the post now, I think I may have put in a bit too much non-OGL stuff in that, but for some reason the delete and edit buttons aren't working for me.

So I've flagged myself.

Sorry guys.

And I missed editing out some 'rogue' references too. Gah!

I removed your post for you.


Hi Ross. Thanks for that!

Right. Avoiding copyright issues hopefully, the second look (doesn't read as well though):

Scout

Alignment: Same.

Hit Die: Same.

Class Skills

The scout's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Dex), Escape Artist (Dex), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Survival (Wis), Stealth (Dex), and Swim (Str).

Skill Ranks per Level: Same.

Base Attack Bonus: Same.

Fortitude Save: Same.
Reflex Save: Same.
Will Save: Same.

Class Features

The following are class features of the scout.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Same.

Skirmish: Same (including errata), except replace second paragraph with the following:

The scout must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A scout cannot deal the extra skirmish damage while striking a creature with concealment. Ranged attacks can count as skirmish attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

Trapfinding: A scout adds 1/2 her level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks (minimum +1). A scout can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps.

Battle Fortitude (Ex): Same.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Same.

Scout Talents: As a scout gains experience, she learns a number of talents that aid her and confound her foes. Starting at 2nd level, a scout gains one scout talent. She gains an additional scout talent for every 2 levels of scout attained after 2nd level. A scout cannot select an individual talent more than once.

Talents marked with an asterisk add effects to a scout's skirmish ability. Only one of these talents can be applied to an individual attack and the decision must be made before the attack roll is made.

Fast Movement (Ex): A scout that selects this talent gains an enhancement bonus to her land speed of 10 feet. A scout in medium or heavy armour or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.

Fast Stealth (Ex): This ability allows a scout to move at full speed using the Stealth skill without penalty.

Feat Trick: A scout that selects this talent gains a bonus feat. The feat must be chosen from the following list: Acrobatic, Agile Maneuvers, Alertness, Athletic, Blind-Fight, Combat Expertise, Defensive Combat Training, Dodge, Endurance, Fleet, Far Shot, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Lightning Stance, Lunge, Mobility, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Rapid Reload, Run, Shot on the Run, Skill Focus, Spring Attack, Stealthy, Weapon Finesse, Wind Stance. She must meet all the prerequisites for the feat.

Ledge Walker (Ex): This ability allows a scout to move along narrow surfaces at full speed using the Acrobatics skill without penalty. In addition, a scout with this talent is not flat-footed when using Acrobatics to move along narrow surfaces.

Resiliency (Ex): Once per day, a scout with this ability can gain a number of temporary hit points equal to the scout's level. Activating this ability is an immediate action that can only be performed when she is brought to below 0 hit points. This ability can be used to prevent her from dying. These temporary hit points last for 1 minute. If the scout's hit points drop below 0 due to the loss of these temporary hit points, she falls unconscious and is dying as normal.

Scout Crawl (Ex): While prone, a scout with this ability can move at half speed. This movement provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. A scout with this talent can take a 5-foot step while crawling.

Slow Reactions* (Ex): Opponents damaged by the scout's skirmish attack can't make attacks of opportunity for 1 round.

Stand Up (Ex): A scout with this ability can stand up from a prone position as a free action. This still provokes attacks of opportunity for standing up while threatened by a foe.

Surprise Attack (Ex): During the surprise round, opponents are always considered flat-footed to a scout with this ability, even if they have already acted.

Trackless Step (Ex): A scout that selects this talent leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. She may choose to leave a trail if so desired.

Evasion (Ex): Same.

Flawless Stride (Ex): Same.

Advanced Talents: At 10th level, and every two levels thereafter, a scout can choose one of the following advanced talents in place of a scout talent.

Blindsense (Ex): A scout selecting this talent gains the blindsense ability out to 30 feet.

Camouflage (Ex): A scout selecting this talent can use the Stealth skill to hide in any natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn't grant cover or concealment. A scout loses this benefit when wearing medium or heavy armour or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

Defensive Roll (Ex): With this advanced talent, the scout can roll with a potentially lethal blow to take less damage from it than she otherwise would. Once per day, when she would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by damage in combat (from a weapon or other blow, not a spell or special ability), the scout can attempt to roll with the damage. To use this ability, the scout must attempt a Reflex saving throw (DC = damage dealt). If the save succeeds, she takes only half damage from the blow; if it fails, she takes full damage. She must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute her defensive roll—if she is denied her Dexterity bonus to AC, she can't use this ability. Since this effect would not normally allow a character to make a Reflex save for half damage, the scout's evasion ability does not apply to the defensive roll.

Faster Movement (Ex): A scout that selects this talent gains an enhancement bonus to her land speed of 10 feet. This bonus to movement stacks with the bonus given by Fast Movement. A scout in medium or heavy armour or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): While in natural terrain, a scout that selects this talent can use the Stealth skill even while being observed.

Improved Evasion (Ex): This works like evasion, except that while the scout still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, she henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless scout does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Feat: A scout may gain any feat that she qualifies for in place of a scout talent.

Free Movement (Ex): Same.

Blindsight (Ex): Same.


Marc Radle 81 wrote:
Out of curiosity, have you by any chance seen the current issue of Kobold Quarterly?

No - looks interesting though - I checked it out when you mentioned it up-thread.

Scarab Sages

Ha!

I was just about to recommend this forum to you, Matt.
Looks like you beat me to it.


Snorter wrote:

Ha!

I was just about to recommend this forum to you, Matt.
Looks like you beat me to it.

Have you seen what some have recommended on here, Snorts? Increase to d10 HD! Fighter BAB! Ability to take 10' as a 5' so can full attack skirmish!

That last one might actually be a good option at high level...

Scarab Sages

Matt Devney wrote:
Have you seen what some have recommended on here, Snorts? Increase to d10 HD! Fighter BAB! Ability to take 10' as a 5' so can full attack skirmish!

GAAAAHHH!

Don't give him ideas!


Scout - extra talents

Scout Talents: As a scout gains experience, she learns a number of talents that aid her and confound her foes. Starting at 2nd level, a scout gains one scout talent. She gains an additional scout talent for every 2 levels of scout attained after 2nd level. A scout cannot select an individual talent more than once.

Talents marked with an asterisk add effects to a scout's skirmish ability. Only one of these talents can be applied to an individual attack and the decision must be made before the attack roll is made.

Defensive Skirmish (Ex): A scout that selects this talent is harder to hit during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet away from where she was at the start of her turn, as long as she does not attack. She gains a dodge bonus to her AC equal to half her base attack bonus, rounded down, but with a minimum of 1. The bonus applies only after the scout has moved at least 10 feet. Defensive skirmishing cannot be used while mounted. A scout in medium or heavy armour or carrying a medium or heavy load cannot use defensive skirmishing.

Unsleeping (Ex): A scout with this talent is used to going without sleep for long periods of time. She only needs to sleep for two hours a night, and suffers no ill effects if she does not get any more than this. If she is a wizard or other spellcaster who requires eight hours rest in order to cast spells, she must still do so to regain her available spells for the day, but only two of those hours need to be sleep. She can also stay awake for up to 48 hours at a stretch without suffering ill effects, though she will become fatigued if awake beyond this point. A scout with this talent only needs to rest for half as long as normal to undo the effects of being exhausted or fatigued. In addition, she receives a +4 resistance bonus to saving throws against sleep spells and effects.

Evasive Tumbling (Ex): A scout that selects this talent is especially good at ducking past a threat without giving it an opportunity to strike. Whenever a scout with this talent attempts to use the Tumble skill to move through a threatened space without provoking attacks of opportunity, she may add his Wisdom modifier to the skill check as an insight bonus.

Canny Fighting (Ex): In order to select this talent, the scout must have either 5 or more ranks in Tumble, or the Combat Expertise or Dodge feat. This talent allows the scout to make one attack of opportunity per round to attempt to disarm or trip a foe that has made an unsuccessful melee attack against her. The disarm or trip attempt does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the foe, but the scout cannot use this ability if caught flat-footed or is unaware of her attacker.

Slippery (Ex): A scout with this talent is tough to hold onto in a grapple. Whenever a grapple against a scout with this talent succeeds, she can take a free action to attempt an Escape Artist check (DC equal to the opponent’s grapple check). If this check succeeds, she escapes the grapple and can move normally on your next action. For two or more opponents as grapplers, the DC is equal to the highest grapple check.

Pounce (Ex): A scout with this talent can maximize her advantage when she catches others off guard. A scout can take a full attack action when she charges an opponent who is surprised, flat footed, or who would be denied a Dexterity bonus to Armor Class.

Guerilla Scout (Ex): A scout with this talent can conceal herself better within natural surroundings. You gain twice the normal benefit from concealment (40% miss chance and a +10 bonus on Hide checks) from forest foliage and undergrowth.

Sure of Skill (Ex): A scout with this talent can use a skill with greater ease than normal. The scout chooses from the following list, and is thereafter completely confident in its use. She can take 10 on a check involving that skill, even if stress and distraction would normally prevent her from doing so. Additionally, she gains a special benefit relating to that skill, as described below.
• Climb: The scout gains a climb speed equal to half her base land speed. She retains her Dexterity bonus to AC while climbing, and opponents get no special bonus on their attacks against her. She must still make a Climb check to climb any wall or slope with a DC of more than 0.
• Balance: Any time the scout fails a Balance check, she may make a second Balance check to attempt to keep from falling. She may also stand up from prone as a free action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
• Bluff: Once per round, the scout may feint in combat as a free action instead of as a standard action.
• Jump: The DC for jump checks is not doubled if the scout does not have a running start.
• Tumble: The scout may tumble at her full speed without suffering a –10 penalty on her Tumble checks.

Self-Healing (Sp): In order to select this talent, the scout must have 5 or more ranks in Heal, or the Survival feat. This ability allows the scout to cast cure light wounds, as the spell (with the caster level equal to half the scout’s class level), a number of times per day equal to the scout’s Wisdom modifier (minimum once per day).

Advanced Talents: At 10th level, and every two levels thereafter, a scout can choose one of the following advanced talents in place of a scout talent.

Greater Canny Fighting (Ex): In order to select this talent, the scout must have the canny fighting talent. This ability allows the scout to take one attack of opportunity per round against a foe that has made an unsuccessful melee attack against her. The scout cannot use this ability if caught flatfooted or is unaware of her attacker.

Evasive Withdraw (Ex): A scout with this talent gains the ability to retreat from any fight unharmed. She gains a +4 bonus on Tumble checks when withdrawing from melee combat, and she can do so at full speed rather than half speed without penalty. With a successful Tumble check, she can leave combat at full running speed without provoking an attack of opportunity. If she must tumble through occupied squares or over the heads of foes, the Tumble check Difficulty Class increases by 5.

Greater Self-Healing (Sp): In order to select this talent, the scout must have selected the self-healing talent. This ability allows the scout to cast cure serious wounds, delay poison, deafness/blindness, or remove disease as the spells (caster level equal to one-half the scout’s class level), a number of times per day equal to the scout’s Wisdom modifier (minimum once per day). This ability replaces self-healing.

Sharp Senses (Ex): A scout with this talent has extraordinary senses, and gains blindsense, to a range of 30 feet.

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