LoreKeeper |
Somebody that has the grappled condition cannot move - does this mean they are vulnerable to Gorgon Fist (as their effective speed is reduced)?
Anybody please? :)
I argue that being grappled is a superior form to being entangled (i.e. grapple is an "active" grapple while entangle is a "passive" grapple); thus the grappled condition means that the movement is reduced - and thus the target is Gorgon Fist-able.
The Wraith |
Well, the rules do not specifically forbid it, and it's true that a grappled creature has a 'reduced movement' (the creature's movement is effectively = 0).
Since Gorgon's Fist says that it works 'against a foe whose speed is reduced', it seems reasonable to allow the feat to work against a Grappled creature. It is possible that it wouldn't work against creatures whose 'original' base speed is already equal to 0 - but I cannot think of any of them... (maybe only a mold has a base speed of 0).
Just my 2c.
LoreKeeper |
Well, the rules do not specifically forbid it, and it's true that a grappled creature has a 'reduced movement' (the creature's movement is effectively = 0).
Since Gorgon's Fist says that it works 'against a foe whose speed is reduced', it seems reasonable to allow the feat to work against a Grappled creature. It is possible that it wouldn't work against creatures whose 'original' base speed is already equal to 0 - but I cannot think of any of them... (maybe only a mold has a base speed of 0).
Just my 2c.
Thanks Wraith - the debate (with my GM) is still raging hard and heavy. In terms of raw power level I think there is no problem, since the target still has the ability to try and ungrapple with a standard action or do whatever else it would be. Additionally thematically it makes sense too - to have a feat to disable an enemy somewhat while grappling them.
(This assumes that the user has Greater Grapple, to be able to grapple and use a standard action for Gorgon Fist.)
The Grandfather |
Somebody that has the grappled condition cannot move - does this mean they are vulnerable to Gorgon Fist (as their effective speed is reduced)?
I would say no.
The target in question is hampered through an outside active force.
A speed reduction is something that affects the creatures actual speed stat.
This however raises the question whether you can use Gorgon's Fist on a person wearing medium or heavy armor. They do actually have their speed stat reduced.
I however don't think that would be in the spirit of the rules.
The Grandfather |
Well, the rules do not specifically forbid it, and it's true that a grappled creature has a 'reduced movement' (the creature's movement is effectively = 0).
Since Gorgon's Fist says that it works 'against a foe whose speed is reduced', it seems reasonable to allow the feat to work against a Grappled creature. It is possible that it wouldn't work against creatures whose 'original' base speed is already equal to 0 - but I cannot think of any of them... (maybe only a mold has a base speed of 0).
Just my 2c.
A grappled person cannot move, but that does not mean that the persons speed stat/movement has been reduced.
I think the intention is that a weakened or "crippled" person is vulnerable to the attack.
Brodiggan Gale |
Somebody that has the grappled condition cannot move - does this mean they are vulnerable to Gorgon Fist (as their effective speed is reduced)?
I'd allow it, Grappling is such a righteous pain now to pull off, it doesn't seem unreasonable to allow some perk for someone who has invested this much in unarmed fighting.