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A couple Wizard questions


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

Q1. About the Evoker's Intense Spells ability:

PRD wrote:
As a standard action you can unleash a force missile that automatically strikes a foe, as magic missile.

Does this just mean that the force missile hits automatically, like magic missile, or is it treated as magic missile in other ways as well? (For instance, are they absorbed by a brooch of shielding?)

I'd lean toward the latter, personally, if just because it's so similar.

Q2. Bonded Objects:

PRD wrote:
Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost. Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. Weapons acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material. If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded. If a wizard attempts to cast a spell without his bonded object worn or in hand, he must make a concentration check or lose the spell. The DC for this check is equal to 20 + the spell's level. If the object is a ring or amulet, it occupies the ring or neck slot accordingly.

If the wizard chooses a weapon as his bonded object, does it have to be one he's proficient with?

My inclination is to say no, he can choose any weapon. He'd suffer the normal nonproficiency penalty if he tried to attack with it, of course. (Unless, of course, he took the appropriate feat, or gained proficiency by multiclassing later on...)

Any thoughts, community? Paizo people?


I'm designing a wizard with an arcane bond to her quarterstaff so I'd say he'd be penalised until your character picks up the relevant martial proficiency or picks up a level in a class that can use it without penalty.

Drat my spelling is getting worse!

Ever thought of picking up the Focused Mind trait to go with Combat Casting?

That looks an interesting match.

Also had a dwarven transmuter but his arcane bond was his battle axe but being a dwarf back in beta he got that as a free weapon proficiency haven't check to see if that still applies though.

Still what are your thoughts on losing your bonded weapon and the subsequent need for concentration checks to cast spells whilst this is in effect?


Q1 - I would treat the ability exactly like magic missile regarding what it can hit, what it will miss, what can absorb it, etc. It's not unfair to let a brooch of shielding or a shield spell block this missile since there are so many ways to get acid resistance, elemental resistance, high touch AC, etc., which defeats other wizard school attacks.

Q2 - I don't think RAW cares about proficiency when selecting a bonded item, but for me, I just cannot get my head around "ooooh, I just love my greatsword sooooo much, I named him and cuddle him and fondle him and form a bond with him... Now, if only I know how to use him..." Seems to me, if you're going to form a bond (look the word up) with an item, it's hard to imagine it being an item you are unable to use with basic familiarity. But that's me talking, not RAW.


I could see a non-proficient weapon if it's done up as a family heirloom that you plan to take proficiency for later.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Pardon if anyone thinks I am hijacking the topic:
Q3. As far as I recall from reading the rules specialist wizards are not required to learn any spells from their specialty school. That does not seem right to me.
Am I missing something?


Diego Winterborg wrote:

Pardon if anyone thinks I am hijacking the topic:

Q3. As far as I recall from reading the rules specialist wizards are not required to learn any spells from their specialty school. That does not seem right to me.
Am I missing something?

Yes. When leveling up, the wizard gets new spells. At least 1 of those spells have to be from the specialty school.

Furthermore, the bonus spell slots the specialist gets *must* be filled with a spell from the specialty school.

Hmm, now that I read your question again, you can indeed choose 'not to learn' your specialty school spells other than picking them by leveling. But I'd consider that 'learning' as well.


Well to answer the question about arcane bond and weapon the wizard needs to have the appropiate martial weapon proficieny or a class that allows access to martial weapons to be able to fight with the weapon without penalties. This unfortunately leaves humans at a slight disadvantage to the non-human spellcasters. But how often do you plan on having your wizard enter meele. Anyway an elf has it easy cause he arcane bond with a bow and fight from a distance once his spells run out.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Funkytrip wrote:

Yes. When leveling up, the wizard gets new spells. At least 1 of those spells have to be from the specialty school.

Furthermore, the bonus spell slots the specialist gets *must* be filled with a spell from the specialty school.

Hmm, now that I read your question again, you can indeed choose 'not to learn' your specialty school spells other than picking them by leveling. But I'd consider that 'learning' as well.

Can you point out where the rules state that at least one spell picked must be from the specialty school? It would be very helpful to me, since I cannot find it.


Diego Winterborg wrote:
Funkytrip wrote:

Yes. When leveling up, the wizard gets new spells. At least 1 of those spells have to be from the specialty school.

Furthermore, the bonus spell slots the specialist gets *must* be filled with a spell from the specialty school.

Hmm, now that I read your question again, you can indeed choose 'not to learn' your specialty school spells other than picking them by leveling. But I'd consider that 'learning' as well.

Can you point out where the rules state that at least one spell picked must be from the specialty school? It would be very helpful to me, since I cannot find it.

Page 219:

"Spells Gained at a New Level: Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast. If he has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from his specialty school."

I, too, missed it the first time...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
The Wraith wrote:

Page 219:

"Spells Gained at a New Level: Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast. If he has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from his specialty school."

I, too, missed it the first time...

Thanks a lot. You have spared my from a long and pointless discussion. I have actually not come to p. 219 yet. It is odd that this was not mentioned in the classes chapter, under the wizard description.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules Subscriber
DM_Blake wrote:
I just cannot get my head around "ooooh, I just love my greatsword sooooo much, I named him and cuddle him and fondle him and form a bond with him... Now, if only I know how to use him..." Seems to me, if you're going to form a bond (look the word up) with an item, it's hard to imagine it being an item you are unable to use with basic familiarity. But that's me talking, not RAW.

Yeah, that's kind-of what I was thinking too. On the other hand,

Abraham spalding wrote:
I could see a non-proficient weapon if it's done up as a family heirloom that you plan to take proficiency for later.

This makes sense to me too.

Basically, the reason I started wondering about this in the first place is because I've been considering whipping up a Wizard as a DMPC in a game I'm starting up, with plans to go Eldritch Knight eventually. He'd be using his primary melee weapon as his bonded object, but it would probably be something he doesn't start out proficient with.

I think what I'm going to rule (at least, in absence of an official ruling) is that you can choose any weapon. I have to imagine that the nonproficiency penalty would be enough to keep most wizards from choosing something they can't use, though.

Thanks for the discussion, though!


Arazyr wrote:

I think what I'm going to rule (at least, in absence of an official ruling) is that you can choose any weapon. I have to imagine that the nonproficiency penalty would be enough to keep most wizards from choosing something they can't use, though.

That seems fair to me. Some wizards (elves and half-orcs) get extra weapon proficiencies. Others, like the future eldritch knight or other multiclassers, might want a bonded weapon, too.

All a player needs for his wizard to use a bastard sword is a feat, so he could be proficient with it at first level, if he wanted.

I like it when players have a cool visual concept (the wizard with a greatsword! Grr!) for their character. In most campaigns I've played, my low-level wizards have ended up in melee, even though they tried to avoid it. A big-damage weapon comes in handy, sometimes!

EDIT: I treat the evoker's ability exactly like a single magic missile, too; range, effect, etc. it's nice that it always hits, but I much preferred the energy ray in the beta. I guess they thought it was too powerful, even though other casters got to keep theirs, like the conjurer and some cleric domains.
My arcane trickster wasn't too happy about that! (:-( No attack roll, so no cheap and easy sneak attack with any energy he wanted!
Oh, well. There's always acid splash...


Q3 (I thought I'd add to this thread):

Does the Evoker's Intense Spells apply to fireball and area of effect evocations or just to rays and missiles? The text seems to apply both. Thanks.

~AoB


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
adaen wrote:

Q3 (I thought I'd add to this thread):

Does the Evoker's Intense Spells apply to fireball and area of effect evocations or just to rays and missiles? The text seems to apply both. Thanks.

~AoB

That would be Q4.

Anyway, Intense Spells applies to all evocation spell that do hp dmg. The ray/missile bit is just to let you know that a 9th lvl invoker casting magic missile WOULD NOT deliver 5 x 1d4+5, but WOULD in stead deliver 1 x 1d4+5 AND 4 x 1d4+1. Missiles that can then be devided among different targets.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Dave Young 992 wrote:


All a player needs for his wizard to use a bastard sword is a feat, so he could be proficient with it at first level, if he wanted.

Two feats if he wants to use it one handed... one to get martial proficiency... the other to get the exotic one.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Diego Winterborg wrote:

Pardon if anyone thinks I am hijacking the topic:

Q3. As far as I recall from reading the rules specialist wizards are not required to learn any spells from their specialty school. That does not seem right to me.
Am I missing something?

If you're taking the trouble and the penalties invovled in specialisation, why would you NOT want to learn the spells?


LazarX wrote:
Dave Young 992 wrote:


All a player needs for his wizard to use a bastard sword is a feat, so he could be proficient with it at first level, if he wanted.

Two feats if he wants to use it one handed... one to get martial proficiency... the other to get the exotic one.

All you need is exotic proficiency. Once you have that martial prof is irrelevant. Also, you don't need martial prof. for exotic prof.


Diego Winterborg wrote:

Pardon if anyone thinks I am hijacking the topic:

Q3. As far as I recall from reading the rules specialist wizards are not required to learn any spells from their specialty school. That does not seem right to me.
Am I missing something?

Yes.

These rules were hidden in magic chapter.

prd wrote:

Adding Spells to a Wizard's Spellbook

Wizards can add new spells to their spellbooks through several methods. A wizard can only learn new spells that belong to the wizard spell lists.

Spells Gained at a New Level: Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, he gains two spells of his choice to add to his spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels he can cast. If he has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from his specialty school.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Lehmuska wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Dave Young 992 wrote:


All a player needs for his wizard to use a bastard sword is a feat, so he could be proficient with it at first level, if he wanted.

Two feats if he wants to use it one handed... one to get martial proficiency... the other to get the exotic one.
All you need is exotic proficiency. Once you have that martial prof is irrelevant. Also, you don't need martial prof. for exotic prof.

Exotic weapon proficiency was originally intended for warrior types, that's why it's a fighter feat and fighters would normally have the martial bastard sword proficiency for free.

Note requirements below: (taken from the d20 srd)

Exotic Weapon Proficiency [General]

Choose a type of exotic weapon. You understand how to use that type of exotic weapon in combat.
Prerequisite

Base attack bonus +1 (plus Str 13 for bastard sword or dwarven waraxe).
Benefit

That BAB plus one generally rules out the feat for a 1st level wizard. Two handed martial proficiency is still feasible though.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If a wizard wants a Bastard Sword as his arcane bond then go for it. He won't be able to swing it very effectively but it look cool pointing it at your opponents as you unleash lightning bolts.

The penalty for using a non-proficient weapon is -4 to hit.


LazarX wrote:

Exotic weapon proficiency was originally intended for warrior types, that's why it's a fighter feat and fighters would normally have the martial bastard sword proficiency for free.

Note requirements below: (taken from the d20 srd)

Exotic Weapon Proficiency [General]

Choose a type of exotic weapon. You understand how to use that type of exotic weapon in combat.
Prerequisite

Base attack bonus +1 (plus Str 13 for bastard sword or dwarven waraxe).
Benefit

That BAB plus one generally rules out the feat for a 1st level wizard. Two handed martial proficiency is still feasible though.

Yes, that's right. the wiz would really have to have a burning desire to bond a b-sword and wait 3 levels to be proficient with it.

EWP would let him use it one-handed, if he's strong enough.
EDIT: it looks like they removed the strength requirement. 8-strength characters must be happy to hear that! Bastard wizards unite!lol

Paizo Employee Lead Designer

You do not need to be proficient with a weapon to take it as your bonded weapon.

The force missile works just like magic missile in terms of what it can hit, deal damage to, and be absorbed by.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules Subscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:

You do not need to be proficient with a weapon to take it as your bonded weapon.

The force missile works just like magic missile in terms of what it can hit, deal damage to, and be absorbed by.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Jason,

Thanks for the answer. That's pretty much what I figured, but it's nice to have the official weigh-in.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Jason Bulmahn wrote:

You do not need to be proficient with a weapon to take it as your bonded weapon.

The force missile works just like magic missile in terms of what it can hit, deal damage to, and be absorbed by.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

While you're here Jason can you clarify the issue with Exotic Weapons Feat on items like the Bastard Sword which has a martial proficiency side to it? Is the martial proficiency a prerequisite for the Exotic? (this would only be a question for those nonmartial characters as the fighter/ranger/pally/barbarian types would have martial bastard sword prof. for free anyway.


LazarX wrote:
While you're here Jason can you clarify the issue with Exotic Weapons Feat on items like the Bastard Sword which has a martial proficiency side to it? Is the martial proficiency a prerequisite for the Exotic? (this would only be a question for those nonmartial characters as the fighter/ranger/pally/barbarian types would have martial bastard sword prof. for free anyway.

The prereq. for EWP is simply a +1 BAB. You don't need any other weapon proficiency to take it.

If you look at Martial WP, it specifies a single martial weapon, unlike Simple WP, which grants you all simple weapons.

Anyone proficient with all Martial weapons can use a bastard sword 2-handed. They need EWP to use it with one (but don't need a 13 strength anymore). A wizard could take EWP with the bastard sword and use it one-handed.

My 2 cp, anyway.


LazarX wrote:
While you're here Jason can you clarify the issue with Exotic Weapons Feat on items like the Bastard Sword which has a martial proficiency side to it? Is the martial proficiency a prerequisite for the Exotic? (this would only be a question for those nonmartial characters as the fighter/ranger/pally/barbarian types would have martial bastard sword prof. for free anyway.

No, exotic weapons are all a single feat to take there is no special additional requirement just because the bastard sword has an alternate martial use. There is also no real balance reason it should be required since the bastard sword is arguably the weakest of the exotic melee weapons.

Also, if you have EWP bastard sword you can use it both one handed or two handed because you can use any one handed weapon you are proficient in with two hands.


Dennis da Ogre wrote:

...the bastard sword is arguably the weakest of the exotic melee weapons.

True enough. The best use of it is with a sword-and-board build. That extra average point of damage, over the course of a career, is worth considering. Rolling a d10 for damage is always fun.

And it looks cool! :)


Q5 (I think): I could use a bit of clarification with the Conjurer's Dimensional Steps ability. When it says that "this teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments", what exactly does it mean? That each time you use the ability you can only teleport 5 feet? Or that the distance you teleport each time you use the ability must be e.g. 5 feet or 10 feet or 20 feet or 50 feet and so on, but not, say, 33 feet or 21 feet or 49 feet and so forth?

I am leaning towards the latter because the former seems like a fancy way to take a 5-foot step, but I am not really sure...


Sorry for the interruption. F. Castor, I replied to your post looking for Pathfinder players in Greece. :)


F. Castor wrote:

Q5 (I think): I could use a bit of clarification with the Conjurer's Dimensional Steps ability. When it says that "this teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments", what exactly does it mean? That each time you use the ability you can only teleport 5 feet? Or that the distance you teleport each time you use the ability must be e.g. 5 feet or 10 feet or 20 feet or 50 feet and so on, but not, say, 33 feet or 21 feet or 49 feet and so forth?

I am leaning towards the latter because the former seems like a fancy way to take a 5-foot step, but I am not really sure...

It means any hop you make has to be a multiple of 5. So 5,10,15,20, etc.

I know it's not the best wording but if the intent was to limit it to 5' hops it would say "You can teleport 5' x times per day".


Bastard Sword is also good if you want to try a dual-wield with no light weapon build and get as much damage as you can out of it. I think most would agree, though, that the off-hand going from a d6 to a d10 isn't really worth the additional -2 to both hands. It's a good feat consolidator though, and something I might consider if I were doing a Fighter/Barbarian or a Fighter/Rogue build.

Plus, I'd argue the Bastard Sword should be the most common exotic weapon in most campaign worlds.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Loopy wrote:
Plus, I'd argue the Bastard Sword should be the most common exotic weapon in most campaign worlds.

I would agree with that since using it as a 2-handed weapon only requires the martial weapon proficiency.

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