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In my games we went with +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom for attribute bonuses and kept rest the same. Check out the conversion forums for more info on their other racial traits.
this set of stats he uses actualy more closly matches what wizards has done with the warforged in 4e well except they dont have any negative stats on chareters any more so its more up to players to pick wich to keep but the 2 positivs are the same they use i have the 4e pdf on warforged i figerd id keep it cause it was free from them and i could use it as a rough guid on a conversion if i needed one and mabe it owuld have some new magic items or feats i could convert back
Keep in mind that constructs are not immune to critical hits anymore. This would make it perfectly acceptable to remove the standard warforged light fortification trait.
As for warforged barbarians, I wouldn't allow them. Not really from a game mechanic view, but from a roleplay view. As a 'manufactured' race, warforged have little in the way of strong emotions. Rage is a VERY strong emotional ability. Also, warforged were built with a purpose, to be soldiers. I would almost require a player to take their first level as fighter, unless they can give me a back story to show that they were originally built to be something else, like a scout/ranger. With the right stat rolls, or point buy, I could see some being built to be artificer/medics.
well from a fluff wise the older warforged were barbarians. it was only after the first few years they started to branch out and train them as anything else. And warforged do have a full rang of emotions, they just like life experience
well from a fluff wise the older warforged were barbarians. it was only after the first few years they started to branch out and train them as anything else. And warforged do have a full rang of emotions, they just like life experience
I didn't say they did not have emotions, just not strong emotional responses. All the fluff I read stated that warforged seem aloof because they don't seem to react strongly on an emotional level. I never got that they were like barbarians early on, at all. I read it as just unstoppable killing machines that didnt even flinch when struct.
I'll see if I can find the fluff, but if ya look at starting ages it's reversed for warforged. The simple classes are the older ones while the complex are the younger.
I'll see if I can find the fluff, but if ya look at starting ages it's reversed for warforged. The simple classes are the older ones while the complex are the younger.It's on page 27 of the Eberron Campaign Setting book. The explanation starts at the bottom of the left hand column and the table is on the same page.
I was thinking of 2 possible fixes for rage fatigue and warforged. The first was to say that they don't get fatigued or exhausted, like any other warforged, however, the extra stress of raging causes them subdual damage at 1 subdual per round raged. Hell you might even call it subdual damage when they would be fatigued and lethal damage if they would have been exhausted.
The second was to say that raging causes the warforged to go into over drive, thus when its over they downgrade into a low power mode. In other words, just say that raging fatigues them anyway. It really needs that downside, if not for balance then at least for flavor reasons.
A warforged can show strong emotions, it's just not likely or common for younger ones to do so. Ironicly, unlike other races, younger warforged tend more towrads wizards and clerics whilst older ones tend more towards barbarians.
Just for balance, I'd probably say that Rage fatigue is an exception to the rule, and that warforged still suffer it's effects. I might represent this IG as somthing like say...mechnical joins and such creaking due to strain.
That makes sense.
If operated at a normal power level, a warforge's body can perform for days on end, but rage (by definition) means pushing them beyond their limits.
I am not sure. A warforged does not go for days on end, but just never tires ever. He can run full speed for a year or more if he wanted and never slow or stop. They just do not have that limitation. I do not buy the it strains the body thing. If they can run non stop for years with no effect a minute of rage isn't going to be an issue.
It doesn't make sense to you that a machine can run flawlessly for years and years, but only when run at its intended speed and power level? And that, if you try to run it too hard and too fast, it might suffer strain after only a few moments?
I'm not an engineer but that makes an awful lot of sense to me.
That is where your misconception lays . A warforged is not a machine. It is a construct of magic. A living thing of mystic creation. He can hustle at full speed till his body wares down, which could take hundreds of years if not longer. His joints are not iron, or stone but live wood. A tree that by it's self keeps growing even after you cut it. The stone and metal will ware and fail over time but they are just armor, not the real body. As long as the wood stays in good shape he can go on forever really.
They do not tire, they do not sleep and they never need rest. I am failing to see how they could ever be exhausted.I am not seeing how they could be fatigued. As if the body became stressed it would need repaired. They do not heal so could never recover without help. If ya need to know how they rage well It could be part of the magic that makes them, gives them life.
I guess I'm still thinking of the magic which animates them as a metaphysical machine, just as your body is a biological machine, even if there aren't literal gears and cogs making them move. Rage doesn't have to physically damage the warforged (the way that an adrenaline rush can physically damage your body), just stress and over-tax the (magical) mechanisms and forces which animate him.
Not getting that either. If I can hustle at max speed for days on end with zero after effect how can raging for a few secs at a time stress it?
Regardless of how much a warforged can run for, raging still puts them over the limit.
A barbarian will tire after raging, regardless of whether they have a constitution score of 1, or if it's over 9000 (Sorry, just got back from an anime convention, couldn't help myself). This indicates to me that raging is far more strenious than other actions, and that to do so is pushing yourself further than you really should go, which, if anything, should be more hazzardous for a machine than anything else.
Force a computer to work without a cooling system big enough to handle it and it'll overheat like crazy. I suppose that's the best analgy you can get for this kind of situation - A warforged raging is pushing it's physical components further than it's mechanical parts are meant to handle.
See there it is again. You guys are working from warforges = robot. That is wrong. They are not machines nor do they have mechanical parts to stress or brake. They have nothing to over tax really. The very systems in a biological machine that becomes stressed are just not there. They have no heart, cardio system or anything to stress
They simply do not have the systems need to becomes fatiged. And even if they did they Could not recover They have zero means of healing, the body does not auto recover and repair so they could never recover without spell or hours of work
People tend to over look that
See there it is again. You guys are working from warforges = robot. That is wrong. They are not machines nor do they have mechanical parts to stress or brake. They have nothing to over tax really. The very systems in a biological machine that becomes stressed are just not there. They have no heart, cardio system or anything to stress
Creatures with the construct type are not invulnurble, whether you consider them a machine or not, otherwise they wouldn't have HPs. It is possible for such a creation to push themselves further than the physical body, and that's what raging does, and thats why it causes fatigue.
If the creation isn't pushing themselves far beyond what they're normally capable of, they ain't raging. Remember that whilst raging, a person with below average strength (Strength 8) can go to someone above average (strength 12), and eventually even to the eqvuilent of a heavy weight bozer (strength 16). Doing that will put a strain, construct or not.
They simply do not have the systems need to becomes fatiged. And even if they did they Could not recover They have zero means of healing, the body does not auto recover and repair so they could never recover without spell or hours of work
Not being able to recover is a differnt matter. I'd probably play it as overheating or some such, heating themselves further than their bodies allow, in which case pausing to rest would help. I know it can be seen as a stretch, but it's not unreasonable to ask somthing like this.
You guys have a MAJOR misconception. Warforged do tire out. They answered this about all living constructs Rules of the Game. While they are still immune to fatigued, they could be said to feel the effects of rage thru non-lethal damage, as if forced marched over 8 hours. Count each round as = to one hour past 8 of a forced march. This will give a warforged 1d6 non-lethal damage per round.
On the other hand, I don't have a problem with the said immunities. Let them stand as is. In 3.5, they really took a hit to will saves, anyway. A raging warforged is not immune to mind effects.
I'll see if I can find the fluff, but if ya look at starting ages it's reversed for warforged. The simple classes are the older ones while the complex are the younger.
They also quote in that passage that the older ones are likely to be fighters & rogues.
You guys have a MAJOR misconception. Warforged do tire out. They answered this about all living constructs Rules of the Game. While they are still immune to fatigued, they could be said to feel the effects of rage thru non-lethal damage, as if forced marched over 8 hours. Count each round as = to one hour past 8 of a forced march. This will give a warforged 1d6 non-lethal damage per round.
Issue with that is it never made the rules , ever anywhere. Under the rules warforged do not tire at all. The rules ya posted contradict a few books really. Another point is it talks of living construct subtype not really warforged.
It's skip willams houserules and not much else. It's not official and is not used for any of the eberron books. I am not saying they are bad rules, what I am saying is they are unsupported rules
I'll see if I can find the fluff, but if ya look at starting ages it's reversed for warforged. The simple classes are the older ones while the complex are the younger.They also quote in that passage that the older ones are likely to be fighters & rogues.
Yep it says that but also shows fighter to be newer then both Barbarian and rogues. Cleric monk and wizard would all be less then 5 years old. while fighters are less then 7 barbarians and rogues could be up to 12 years old
Meaning the oldest active models would be barbarians and rogues with fighters and rangers as 2nd gen while complex class were brand new at wars end
Not being able to recover is a differnt matter. I'd probably play it as overheating or some such, heating themselves further than their bodies allow, in which case pausing to rest would help. I know it can be seen as a stretch, but it's not unreasonable to ask somthing like this.
I do not think that fits the warforged as written really, but can see that for some type of living constructs. The issue is this was never addressed in the eberron books and adding stuff like a patch, well feels like a patch and does not fit the race as written.
I don't see this fitting and they have always been allowed to rage with zero drawback, kinda what made em deadly. The way I see it the barbarian types were made to rage and deal with it. Just like some were made with damned heavy armor, or as casters, and so one.
They were not made in a line, but in batches, so ya get diff stats and classes, and armor types.
If a living construct, and by extension a warforged, is immune to fatigue but not non-lethal damage, then they are also immune to the fatigue effects of rage and running/forced march (but still take non-lethal damage from forced march). No argument.
You are correct, I over looked the non lethal from forced march. My mistake. They still can not ware out and are less likely to fail such checks. I also think non lethal is a bit more deadly now if I recall
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Warforged as a race are immune to ability drain. The PrC give immunity to ability damage.I think you've always been able to crit warforged anyway but I could be wrong.The warforged juggernaut PrC ended with the character being a full construct for all intents and purposes. I hate to bandy the word "broken" around lightly, but that PrC was/is scary as all get out.
At the second level of the PrC, juggernauts became immune to crits and non-lethal damage.
At third level, they were immune to all mind affecting spells and effects, including phantasms, charm, pattern effects, etc...
At fourth level, they became immune to death and necromancy effects.
At fifth level, immunity to ability damage and ability drain.
See to me, I would say "OK, so immune to ability damage.....so ability enhancement is the flip-side of that coin....No bull's strength or Gloves of Dexerity, for you TI99-4A!
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See to me, I would say "OK, so immune to ability damage.....so ability enhancement is the flip-side of that coin....No bull's strength or Gloves of Dexerity, for you TI99-4A!
That was my first instinct as well, but nowhere in the rules does it say so. Really is a shame. Maybe that will be my next house rule.
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Well, from Aub's eberron campaign;....
clerical healing only does 1/2 for warforged, so a wizard has to bypass decent spells or buy a special wand just to heal them, and they can't heal by themselves; I don't know if that's an equivalent foil, but many the time appears where my cleric "kinda would like to heal the warforged, but it would be a real waste from a logistical standpoint."
So being a warforged isn't all fun'n'games.
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Well, from Aub's eberron campaign;....
clerical healing only does 1/2 for warforged, so a wizard has to bypass decent spells or buy a special wand just to heal them, and they can't heal by themselves; I don't know if that's an equivalent foil, but many the time appears where my cleric "kinda would like to heal the warforged, but it would be a real waste from a logistical standpoint."
So being a warforged isn't all fun'n'games.
Not to mention all the cool class abilities, spells, and magic items that now do precisely nothing because you are already immune. Sure it frees up resources, but less to look forward to.
See there it is again. You guys are working from warforges = robot. That is wrong. They are not machines nor do they have mechanical parts to stress or brake. ...
Like I said before, the magical mechanisms which animate them could become stressed just as a physical mechanism can. I never said that they were actually robots; it was only an analogy.
See there it is again. You guys are working from warforges = robot. That is wrong. They are not machines nor do they have mechanical parts to stress or brake. ...Like I said before, the magical mechanisms which animate them could become stressed just as a physical mechanism can. I never said that they were actually robots; it was only an analogy.
As I said I fail to see that, as they were made to do just that. Rage. They were made to rage, so I fail to see how it could stress the "system" any more the casting a spell would
You'll note that Warforged can still only Rage for a limited time each day.
yep they have the same limits as any class. The race is what gives them immunity to fatigue just as an elf gets immunity to sleep.
As I said I fail to see that, as they were made to do just that. Rage. They were made to rage, so I fail to see how it could stress the "system" any more the casting a spell would
By definition, the barbarian rage class feature means performing far beyond your normal capabilities for a short period. A machine (physical or otherwise) can be intentionally designed to do that: "cool-down periods" are not a new idea in sci-fi (or even fantasy for that matter).
Warforged barbarians can maintain a phenomenal output for half a minute or so, long enough to see them through a skirmish, but after that they need to slow down and recharge.
My point was the fact that they can't Rage all day long indicates that there are some stresses placed on them during a rage that they cannot endure constantly.
sure they can have limits and that is how you can explain them stopping, still does not make them effected by fatigue at all
But them limits on rage have always been a bit silly anyhow, and ya need to look at it from a mechanics view point. Really ya should be able to rage all day long, sure you would prob die from it but as a game ya need some type of limit for a rough balance
But the warforged has the same number of uses as a human, they just do not have the drawlback
Really ya should be able to rage all day long
Nope. Adrenaline can only do so much - and when you're out of it, you really feel the withdrawal.
But the warforged has the same number of uses as a human, they just do not have the drawlback
Sure, by the core rules.
What we were discussion is whether a "cooldown" explanation makes sense should a DM implement the same drawback for warforged.
(actually, I could have sworn that there was some rage benefit which warforged didn't get, to balance the fact that they aren't fatigued. I haven't read Races of Eberron in ages, though)
Really ya should be able to rage all day longNope. Adrenaline can only do so much - and when you're out of it, you really feel the withdrawal.
I did say it pob kill ya :)
(actually, I could have sworn that there was some rage benefit which warforged didn't get, to balance the fact that they aren't fatigued. I haven't read Races of Eberron in ages, though)
Nope just checked. They get everything any other barb does, save they are immune to fatigue