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Can a weapon be enchanted with both frost and flaming?


Rules Questions

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1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Can a weapon be enchanted with both frost and flaming special abilities?

Cheliax RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

2 people marked this as a favorite.
addy grete wrote:
Can a weapon be enchanted with both frost and flaming special abilities?

No reason it couldn't be. As far as I'm aware, there are no "mutually exclusive" enchants.

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

It would be wacky but legal.

Taldor

It absolutely can be built to contain both the power of fire and ice. You could toss acid and electricity in there too if you wished.

Very popular thing to do with a composite longbow.


Not if I'm the GM. But by RAW it's fine.

Qadira

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

Killjoy!


Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Killjoy!

He doesn't want anyone to one-shot the T-1000.

Qadira

Coldfire from SCAP, is a flaming/frost greatsword. So I would say yes... especially since my drow Ftr/Rog went on to make that blade rather infamous in our campaign.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Modules Subscriber

We've always allowed it since playing 3.x, however we've also required each of the different energy types be activated (standard action) seperately. So you could have a flaming, frosting, shocking weapon... It just took you 3 rounds to get it up and running and 3 rounds to be able to sheath the weapon. I don't have my PFRPG to look at right now to see if that changed but I doubt it.

SRD wrote:


Activation
Usually a character benefits from a magic weapon in the same way a character benefits from a mundane weapon—by attacking with it. If a weapon has a special ability that the user needs to activate then the user usually needs to utter a command word (a standard action).

Flaming
Upon command, a flaming weapon is sheathed in fire. The fire does not harm the wielder. The effect remains until another command is given...

Cheliax RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You could even have a holy/unholy/axiomatic/anarchic weapon... though only a Neutral character would ever want to use it.


Shinmizu wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Killjoy!
He doesn't want anyone to one-shot the T-1000.

Maybe if the sword was cold one round then hot the next... That would be a different thing altogether though and is not at all how this works. Flaming is always flaming and damages things with heat. Frost is always cold and damages with cold.


well since its not stated in any of RAW or some ammendement in a splatbook you can pretty much add whatever quality ou want to the weapon. Think of a frost/flame weapon (pun intended) like how a prismatic spell hits you get hit with all types of energies.


Frostflame wrote:
well since its not stated in any of RAW or some ammendement in a splatbook you can pretty much add whatever quality ou want to the weapon. Think of a frost/flame weapon (pun intended) like how a prismatic spell hits you get hit with all types of energies.

I think you can add whatever properties you want, and they would all be active, all of the time. If it was a Frost/Flame weapon you would deal cold and fire damage on each hit, or whatever. Although common sense tells you not to let this go too overboard.

Plus each of these properties add to the overall cost of the weapon, and after only a couple of "pluses" things tend to get really expensive. Wouldn't it be wiser in this case to diversify the powers into other properties such as Ghost Touch, or Bane?

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber
Dennis da Ogre wrote:
Not if I'm the GM. But by RAW it's fine.

Same here. It's just a bit silly, unless you have some character concept designed around it or something.


Skylancer4 wrote:

We've always allowed it since playing 3.x, however we've also required each of the different energy types be activated (standard action) seperately. So you could have a flaming, frosting, shocking weapon... It just took you 3 rounds to get it up and running and 3 rounds to be able to sheath the weapon. I don't have my PFRPG to look at right now to see if that changed but I doubt it.

SRD wrote:


Activation
Usually a character benefits from a magic weapon in the same way a character benefits from a mundane weapon—by attacking with it. If a weapon has a special ability that the user needs to activate then the user usually needs to utter a command word (a standard action).

Flaming
Upon command, a flaming weapon is sheathed in fire. The fire does not harm the wielder. The effect remains until another command is given...

If you're smart you use the same command weapon for all abilities. Thus say the word and all abilities activate in the same round.

The only downside to this is if you fight a creature who gets healed by on of the damage types.

Stephen E

Silver Crusade

According to RAW, yes. As a DM, I'd be skeptical. Maybe I'd allow one on each end of a double weapon.

Taldor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

One usable by day, the other by night? Might even be worth a discount because they aren't concurrent.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mosaic wrote:
One usable by day, the other by night? Might even be worth a discount because they aren't concurrent.

Darn it!

Quit coming up with ideas that are just a little bit better than mine!


4 people marked this as a favorite.

It's most definitely allowable as far as I'm concerned.

Liquid Methane, whilst boiling at a warm -100 some-odd Centigrade, can support a pool fire.

Go ahead. Stick your hand in. See if your hand doesn't frostbite, while your clothes are set on fire.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Dennis da Ogre wrote:
Shinmizu wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Killjoy!
He doesn't want anyone to one-shot the T-1000.
Maybe if the sword was cold one round then hot the next... That would be a different thing altogether though and is not at all how this works. Flaming is always flaming and damages things with heat. Frost is always cold and damages with cold.

Yeah you darn magic! Quit doing the impossible!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Why do you have to explain it, its magic!

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Sure, your blade will just look like this guy


Yes any weapon can have both flaming and frost, and why is it hard to explain 1)its magic 2)perhaps the sword changes temperatur every milli sec, getting your flesh frosen and then burned would hurt, and its not like a quickened fireball cancle the effect of a cone of cold is it:).

as mentioned above there is a giant using a greatsword named coldfire in the schakeled city adventure path(the blade has both effects on it)...well i think it was a giant,,,its been a few years

Contributor

12 people marked this as a favorite.

...and the dwarves knew it as Glimdraung, the Frostburner. And in the language of the elves, it was called Par Hileaiathia, the Winter Star.

But then it fell into the hands of halflings, and after they saw what it did to goblins, they dubbed it the Baked Alaska Blade, and that is the name that has stuck....


One of my old DM's allowed a weapon to be enchanted with opposing elements but you could only activate one at a time.

It seemed to make a good balance as it was a greatsword and we were on a dragon killing quest. This made it a very utilitarian blade.

So as a houserule in all of the games I've been in since you can have 2 or more opposing elements on a weapon but you cannot activate both at once.


Generally put the elemental enhancements aren't worth the gold spent on them anyways. My homerule is you can stack on as many as you like. Sure go ahead and buy that Longsword +1 (flaming x 9) yes you do in fact get 9d6 fire damage on each swing. Just don't complain when you face a demon, red dragon or a fire giant. Sometimes all you get is trolls sometimes it's a red dragon.


Thanks everyone, that was helpful. I especially liked the reference to Equinox...

Andoran

Dennis da Ogre wrote:
Shinmizu wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Killjoy!
He doesn't want anyone to one-shot the T-1000.
Maybe if the sword was cold one round then hot the next... That would be a different thing altogether though and is not at all how this works. Flaming is always flaming and damages things with heat. Frost is always cold and damages with cold.

haven't heard the news? tis magic

magic doesn't follow conventional rules

but if one effect lasted one round and not another... would it cost half, since it only has the effects HALF the time?

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
addy grete wrote:
Can a weapon be enchanted with both frost and flaming special abilities?

Yes, but only if you name it Icy Hot... :D

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Abraham spalding wrote:
My homerule is you can stack on as many as you like. Sure go ahead and buy that Longsword +1 (flaming x 9) yes you do in fact get 9d6 fire damage on each swing. Just don't complain when you face a demon, red dragon or a fire giant.

(Psst. Go with "sonic".)


Chris Mortika wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
My homerule is you can stack on as many as you like. Sure go ahead and buy that Longsword +1 (flaming x 9) yes you do in fact get 9d6 fire damage on each swing. Just don't complain when you face a demon, red dragon or a fire giant.
(Psst. Go with "sonic".)

I have killed more power-gamers with a single Sound Elemental (yep, you guessed it, immune to sonic damage) that I'll ever admit...


Montalve wrote:

haven't heard the news? tis magic

magic doesn't follow conventional rules

Hey whatever, you can run your games the way you want. You can a sword that emits Magical Light and Magical Darkness at the same time also You can have as many Holy/ Unholy/ Flaming/ Frosting/ Light/ Dark Swords as you want... just not when I'm GM.

Montalve wrote:
but if one effect lasted one round and not another... would it cost half, since it only has the effects HALF the time?

I wouldn't say half as much because it's useful against a lot more creatures.

Qadira

addy grete wrote:
Can a weapon be enchanted with both frost and flaming special abilities?

As women travel backward through time and men forward...find a female sorcerer to enchant it with frost or fire and a male sorcerer to enchant it as fire or frost (opposite of whatever) and name it it 'spawn of sorcery'.

Andoran

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Fatespinner wrote:
You could even have a holy/unholy/axiomatic/anarchic weapon... though only a Neutral character would ever want to use it.

Concordant killer anyone?

Shadow Lodge

addy grete wrote:
Can a weapon be enchanted with both frost and flaming special abilities?
From the Combat Section of the Players Handbook wrote:

A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting, activating a feat, or the activation of magic items.

From the Magic Weapons Section of the Players Handbook wrote:

Upon command, a flaming weapon is sheathed in fire that deals an extra 1d6 points of fire damage on a successful hit. The fire does not harm the wielder. The effect remains until another command is given.

Bold is me.

This basically says you can give one command a turn, flaming or frost, then if you give another command it undoes the first. So you could have a flaming and frost weapon, just not at the same time.

This prevents ridiculous dice stacking.


Raestlin wrote:

Bold is me.

This basically says you can give one command a turn, flaming or frost, then if you give another command it undoes the first. So you could have a flaming and frost weapon, just not at the same time.

This prevents ridiculous dice stacking.

Uh.. you command flaming to be on as your standard. Next turn you command frost to be on as your standard... since you never commanded flaming to "end" they are both on.

I fail to see how they would end upon the activation of the other.

Andoran

I personally wouldn't have much of a problem with it mechanic wise, though I'd probably want a decent story associated with it if it were going to begin in play (as in a higher level game). It'd certainly be unique and named at the very least, regardless of its power level (or lack there of).


Frostbrand!

Freezer Burn!

Cheliax

Stynkk wrote:
Raestlin wrote:

Bold is me.

This basically says you can give one command a turn, flaming or frost, then if you give another command it undoes the first. So you could have a flaming and frost weapon, just not at the same time.

This prevents ridiculous dice stacking.

Uh.. you command flaming to be on as your standard. Next turn you command frost to be on as your standard... since you never commanded flaming to "end" they are both on.

I fail to see how they would end upon the activation of the other.

They don't, you can stack as many of these elemental enhancements as you like given they aren't the exact same or use the equivalent rules (Such as using Flame Arrow on a stack of Fiery Arrows).

Silver Crusade

Abraham spalding wrote:
... Sometimes all you get is trolls sometimes it's a red dragon.

Mama always said, "Pathfinder is like a box of chocolates...."

Cheliax

frostburn-cold + fire
chemical burn-fire + acid
cold snap-cold+electric


It could be ruled that "until another command is given" means that activating the next elemental type deactivates any currently active effects. This would work if you favor not mixing the types.


Any Magic: the Gathering fans in the house?

Also, if you are going to tell a player that their +1 flaming, frost sword is only one or the other at any given time, you should probably give them a discount. If it were my character, I'd be annoyed at having to pay full price for an ability that only worked half of the time. I'd say just don't allow it if you don't like it (though, as a GM, I would allow it).

Taldor

yes

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/equinoxs2.jpg

http://suncomics.com/Blogorama/Malcolm%20Tex/equinox.jpg

Shadow Lodge

HappyDaze wrote:
It could be ruled that "until another command is given" means that activating the next elemental type deactivates any currently active effects. This would work if you favor not mixing the types.

I wouldn't say could be ruled, that is how it is. Each ability has a command that activates it, you choose that when you make the ability or when you find it out from an existing item. Maybe an artifact or whatever has multiple elemental stacking types, but the way the rules are written the command looks to be tied to each ability.


Raestlin wrote:
addy grete wrote:
Can a weapon be enchanted with both frost and flaming special abilities?
From the Combat Section of the Players Handbook wrote:

A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting, activating a feat, or the activation of magic items.

From the Magic Weapons Section of the Players Handbook wrote:

Upon command, a flaming weapon is sheathed in fire that deals an extra 1d6 points of fire damage on a successful hit. The fire does not harm the wielder. The effect remains until another command is given.

Bold is me.

This basically says you can give one command a turn, flaming or frost, then if you give another command it undoes the first. So you could have a flaming and frost weapon, just not at the same time.

This prevents ridiculous dice stacking.

This is exactly how it's supposed to work and why fighters do not continually stack damaging powers like this.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sonchezz wrote:
This is exactly how it's supposed to work and why fighters do not continually stack damaging powers like this.
James Jacobs wrote:


The rules for activating and unactivating a weapon's energy damage is not in the game to force users of those weapons to spend an extra action to get ready above the action of drawing a weapon. The rules are mostly there for the cases where you want to turn OFF the effect, such as if you're entering an encounter where having visibly magic weapons might be a disadvantage.

Otherwise, the game assumes that the energy damage effect is left on all the time. It's not like those weapons will run out of power if they're left on all the time, after all.

James Jacobs wrote:
While it's a command word to activate or deactivate a weapon like a flaming or a frost weapon... once activated it stays on. Sheathing it suppresses the energy automatically, and when you draw the weapon later it's ready to go. You'd only want to turn off the energy effect, as a previous poster said, when you're facing something that using that type of energy against is a bad idea.

As to the multiple abilities with one word, you have to go back to the 3.5 FAQ on that one, but it lists that you can set the same word for multiple abilities, but then they activate all or none (I believe the FAQ also said you could set multiple words on an item, to activate each power individually, one at a time, or all at once, as you needed).

The FAQ also confirmed that while the flaming/frosting/etc didn't hurt the wielder, if he put it down, it would harm the environment while unattended. So don't put your flaming sword under your pillow unless it's in a sheath or you turned off the flaming. :)

Cheliax

its not ridiculous dice stacking. its a couple dice.

its not "cheap" or "cheesy" and the rules support it. it not even a matter of interpretation. its how it works.

you can have your flaming, acidic, holy, undead-bane weapon and deal +d6 fire, +d6 +2d6 holy +2d6 bane against a ghoul

yes its 6d6 in a specific situation.


Ah, this reminds me of a sword from the Elder Scrolls IV. It changed form, depending on the time of day - in the morn it was Dawnfang, and in the night it was Duskfang. Its forms did fire and frost damage respectively.

While the logic of fire and ice striking you at once does not seem sound, according to Assertion Twelve, that's alright, cause you know. It's magic!

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