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Can a weapon be enchanted with both frost and flaming?


Rules Questions

151 to 179 of 179 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Stynkk wrote:

I'm glad we've established that it is perfectly fine to have multiple elemental damage sources on a weapon.

Nostagar wrote:
Ignoring all the rules lawyering for a moment, lets look at it in terms of game balance.

Your view of game balance needs to go a little further.

For a warrior to attain the weapons you speak of he has to spend at least 324,000 GP PLUS any armor or other items that they have. And have to wait for the items to get crafted and find available spellcasters. This is generally not possible until roughly level 17.

And a wizard has to wake up..

it is actually a lot harder to obtain such weapons than people are suggesting. I'm not sure why people judge things in a vaccuum.

What targets are you attacking? Is concealment involved? Have you accounted that the fighter's last iterative attacks may not actually hit? The fighter can't move if he wants to full attack, did you account for this damage dip in your calculations?

Many enemies at the 20th level have energy resistance of more than 5. Was this accounted for?

There's also the fact that the wizard has to expend at least a spell slot to do that damage whereas a fighter can do that virtually at will.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Regrs wrote:


@mdt
Plus in the hands of a fighter with weapon mastery it should deal +8d10 "elemental" damage and it will always confirm, so over +1 enhancement isn't totally necessary (for a fighter).
As for DR if you feel uneasy with it make it from adamantine (bypasses all DR except DR/Alignment)

20th level fighter with weapon mastery attacking 20th level fighter who's maxed out his AC. Fighter A has total attack of +35. Fighter B has total AC of 45.

Fighter A needs a 10 to hit. He's using a +1 Rapier of Frosting Burst, Flaming Burst, Corrosive Burst, Shocking Burst. Assuming he has Improved Critical, then his crit range is 15-20.

He rolls a 15, hits, threatens a critical. Rolls an 8, fails to confirm.

He rolls a 10, hits, doesn't threaten.

I repeat again, very slowly, threatening a critical is not the same as automatically getting it. It doesn't matter what your class is, it doesn't matter what your build is. There will be something that has enough AC for you to miss confirming that critical.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
mdt wrote:
Regrs wrote:


@mdt
Plus in the hands of a fighter with weapon mastery it should deal +8d10 "elemental" damage and it will always confirm, so over +1 enhancement isn't totally necessary (for a fighter).
As for DR if you feel uneasy with it make it from adamantine (bypasses all DR except DR/Alignment)

20th level fighter with weapon mastery attacking 20th level fighter who's maxed out his AC. Fighter A has total attack of +35. Fighter B has total AC of 45.

Fighter A needs a 10 to hit. He's using a +1 Rapier of Frosting Burst, Flaming Burst, Corrosive Burst, Shocking Burst. Assuming he has Improved Critical, then his crit range is 15-20.

He rolls a 15, hits, threatens a critical. Rolls an 8, fails to confirm.

He rolls a 10, hits, doesn't threaten.

I repeat again, very slowly, threatening a critical is not the same as automatically getting it. It doesn't matter what your class is, it doesn't matter what your build is. There will be something that has enough AC for you to miss confirming that critical.

FYI

Weapon Mastery (Ex): At 20th level, a fighter chooses one weapon, such as the longsword, greataxe, or longbow.
Any attacks made with that weapon automatically confirm all critical threats and have their damage multiplier increased by 1 (×2 becomes ×3, for example). In addition, he cannot be disarmed while wielding a weapon of this type.

If you threat and pass AC of opponent you may crit. Weapon Mastery removes the requirement of confirming the threats, meaning simply if you threat you get to crit.

@Jiraiya22
I stand corrected enhancements may overcome DR, materials won't except specified. Thx!


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Regrs wrote:


Any attacks made with that weapon automatically confirm all critical threats and have their damage multiplier increased by 1 (×2 becomes ×3, for example). In addition, he cannot be disarmed while wielding a weapon of this type.

Huh,

Ok, stand corrected then. I missed that line somehow.


Raestlin wrote:
I believe I answered this earlier, activating a command on an item ends any current commands ON THAT ITEM.

Sorry to necro the thread, but this is so wrong I need to answer. So if you have an item that allow you to fly, and cast true seeing, if you use the command word for true seeing while flying... you fall? That's not how it works it.

On a side issue, and the reason I was using the searcher and found this thread: Jacobs answer about the flame sword in a seath under the pillow, seem to imply that the sword can be activated while in the sheath, as it does not harm *you* (or your gear). I have seen similar answers from him in the past, hinting it, but never got a definitive quote.

Anybody knows if you can have a flaming (or frost, shock, etc) weapon activated an sheathed?


Dennis da Ogre wrote:
Shinmizu wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Killjoy!
He doesn't want anyone to one-shot the T-1000.
Maybe if the sword was cold one round then hot the next... That would be a different thing altogether though and is not at all how this works. Flaming is always flaming and damages things with heat. Frost is always cold and damages with cold.

Things are called "Magic" for a reason.


Mix fire and ice, get steam.

So either the wielder of the weapon wants to fill rooms with steam, or just alternate between fire and ice like a showoff.

I'd rather just call up an army of Blackfire Adepts and have them break reality with unstable magic. It's more chaotic, and more fun!

Andoran

Soo.... regardless of whether you can make a flaming frost weapon or have both active at the same time, what about class abilities that add such properties?

Like an arcane archer or a magus?

Lets say an arcane archer is able to add the shock property to any arrow he looses, and the bow has the flaming property. He does get both then correct?


Fatespinner wrote:
addy grete wrote:
Can a weapon be enchanted with both frost and flaming special abilities?
No reason it couldn't be. As far as I'm aware, there are no "mutually exclusive" enchants.

Ranged weapon only and melee weapon only?


deuxhero wrote:
Fatespinner wrote:
addy grete wrote:
Can a weapon be enchanted with both frost and flaming special abilities?
No reason it couldn't be. As far as I'm aware, there are no "mutually exclusive" enchants.
Ranged weapon only and melee weapon only?

Those are not enhancements. They are weapon categories which sometimes an enhancement is restricted to. Fatespinner was speaking of the enhancement itself. As an example if an enhancement were to say if you use holy then you are restricted from applying the unholy enhancement since agreeing to add the one enhancement would forbid you from applying the 2nd one.


Actually I just remembered one that completely is mutally exclusive with others: Runeforged


deuxhero wrote:
Actually I just remembered one that completely is mutally exclusive with others: Runeforged

What does it block you from taking applying to the weapon?

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
Dennis da Ogre wrote:
Shinmizu wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Killjoy!
He doesn't want anyone to one-shot the T-1000.
Maybe if the sword was cold one round then hot the next... That would be a different thing altogether though and is not at all how this works. Flaming is always flaming and damages things with heat. Frost is always cold and damages with cold.
Things are called "Magic" for a reason.

I call it out-of-context Necrophillia myself.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

My logical reasoning, and understanding of real world thermodynamics, has lead me to believe that the magical enchantments in this particular fantasy game does not work the way you believe it does.

It is also because of this scientific deconstruction of magical formulas, that I have decided that the rules are incorrect, and those rules that I do agree with, are simply misunderstood by others, because my reading of them is correct.


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
Dennis da Ogre wrote:
Shinmizu wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Killjoy!
He doesn't want anyone to one-shot the T-1000.
Maybe if the sword was cold one round then hot the next... That would be a different thing altogether though and is not at all how this works. Flaming is always flaming and damages things with heat. Frost is always cold and damages with cold.
Things are called "Magic" for a reason.

EXACTLY. I wonder how people find so many problems with willing suspension of disbelieve in a fire that is cold, but they don't when that very same fire does not harm the wielder. So they need to look at basic thermondinamyc laws for fire vs cold, but they don't for fire vs your own flesh, "because it's magic". It's kinda ironic.

That said, "frostfire" is a well stablished fantasy genre trope ("a fire so cold that it burns", in Ben Ten parlance, or the "frostfire bolts" in WoW, or the Icy Flames of Zelda), so I don't know why would anyone feel it is unnapropiated to have it in a weapon in a fantasy game. But if yoour DM does, just take "fire" and "shock" properties. Electric fires are quite common, to the point the firemans have special countermeasures when those happen.


wraithstrike wrote:
deuxhero wrote:
Actually I just remembered one that completely is mutally exclusive with others: Runeforged
What does it block you from taking applying to the weapon?

Any one of the "Runeforged" enchantments blocks (or at least gives major penalties if the weapon also has) the other Runeforged enchantments.


By the general rules you can't apply the same enhancement to a weapon twice anyway. That is more of a reminder than a special rule. I wish they had put that reminder on the bane enhancement.


wraithstrike wrote:
deuxhero wrote:
Fatespinner wrote:
addy grete wrote:
Can a weapon be enchanted with both frost and flaming special abilities?
No reason it couldn't be. As far as I'm aware, there are no "mutually exclusive" enchants.
Ranged weapon only and melee weapon only?

Those are not enhancements. They are weapon categories which sometimes an enhancement is restricted to. Fatespinner was speaking of the enhancement itself. As an example if an enhancement were to say if you use holy then you are restricted from applying the unholy enhancement since agreeing to add the one enhancement would forbid you from applying the 2nd one.

Maybe merciful and deadly.


Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
Things are called "Magic" for a reason.

QFT.

It's magic, people.


Nicos wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
deuxhero wrote:
Fatespinner wrote:
addy grete wrote:
Can a weapon be enchanted with both frost and flaming special abilities?
No reason it couldn't be. As far as I'm aware, there are no "mutually exclusive" enchants.
Ranged weapon only and melee weapon only?

Those are not enhancements. They are weapon categories which sometimes an enhancement is restricted to. Fatespinner was speaking of the enhancement itself. As an example if an enhancement were to say if you use holy then you are restricted from applying the unholy enhancement since agreeing to add the one enhancement would forbid you from applying the 2nd one.

Maybe merciful and deadly.

They can be placed on the same weapon also. They just can't be activated at the same time. I think this is the closet by RAW that you can get though.

Osirion

Drawmij's_Heir wrote:

Plus each of these properties add to the overall cost of the weapon, and after only a couple of "pluses" things tend to get really expensive. Wouldn't it be wiser in this case to diversify the powers into other properties such as Ghost Touch, or Bane?

It's not always a question of cost. Take the magus for example. If going for pure dpr against something he can already hit trivially there is little reason not to spend 1 point of arcane pool to add multiple energy forms.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Eben TheQuiet wrote:
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
Things are called "Magic" for a reason.

QFT.

It's magic, people.

I disagree. Your idea is too narrow.

It's fantasy, people. Let it be fantastic.


: shrugs :

I agree... that, too.


Dennis Baker wrote:
Captain Sir Hexen Ineptus wrote:
Dennis da Ogre wrote:
Shinmizu wrote:
Aubrey the Malformed wrote:
Killjoy!
He doesn't want anyone to one-shot the T-1000.
Maybe if the sword was cold one round then hot the next... That would be a different thing altogether though and is not at all how this works. Flaming is always flaming and damages things with heat. Frost is always cold and damages with cold.
Things are called "Magic" for a reason.
I call it out-of-context Necrophillia myself.

I think I quoted the wrong message; sorry.


It's MAGIC!


wraithstrike wrote:
By the general rules you can't apply the same enhancement to a weapon twice anyway. That is more of a reminder than a special rule. I wish they had put that reminder on the bane enhancement.

I dunno, I think Bane falls under the same category as the Evil Eye Hex, it's actually a bunch of Enhancements all under the same umbrella

Bane (Humanoid (human)) isn't the same as Bane (Construct).
especially since bane is more of a "oh that's nice" bonus then a "and I add this and this and this" effect.
plus Multiple banes don't stack, meaning a half-elf wont get double hit by a human/elf bane weapon.
just my two copper.

as for the Fire/Frost/Shocking/Corrosive weapon, that's a +5 equiv (after the initial +1) for 4D6 damage, all of which falls apart to multiple resist 5, like an Aasimar ignores cold, electricity and acid, meaning only the 1D6 fire is really relevant, beyond that none of them are multiplied on a crit, doesn't really seem like a fair tradeoff.


Flaming: Upon command, a flaming weapon is sheathed in fire that deals an extra 1d6 points of fire damage on a successful hit. The fire does not harm the wielder. The effect remains until another command is given.

The RAW does not specify that either the command to activate the ability , or the command to deactivate it, are specific commands for that ability. Ergo, not only will any command turn off any active elemental effect(s) on the weapon, but any command will turn them all on! So not only is it possible to have more than one effect active at a time, it is not possible to select only one.

Sczarni

For those of you saying "Not if I am a GM." and "Doesn't make sense." Please recall; you are playing a game with MAGIC IN IT. 'Nuf said, of course you could have a cold/hot weapon. I mean, it doesn't make sense that FLAMES would spring forth from a blade to begin with. Why not both?


http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k2i5?Why-are-weapon-energy-effects-command-wor d#20

Jacobs specifically states that the effect stays on until you turn it off, not until you turn on something completely different.

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