As a druid you can shape change into creatures with claws and bites. Per the Attacks section, Natural weapons count as armed unarmed attacks.
Therefore, can you then use the Improved Unarmed attack chain with natural weapons?
Natural attacks are separate and different from unarmed attacks. You either get the natural attacks or you get the unarmed attacks. If you are in animal form, you only get natural attacks.
Only for some monstrous humanoids could you append a specific natural attack at the end of a regular full attack action, but it still doesn't count as an unarmed attack, and can't be used multiple times per round.
Natural attacks are separate and different from unarmed attacks. You either get the natural attacks or you get the unarmed attacks. If you are in animal form, you only get natural attacks.
Only for some monstrous humanoids could you append a specific natural attack at the end of a regular full attack action, but it still doesn't count as an unarmed attack, and can't be used multiple times per round.
That is what 3.5 states but I found this in the attack section **sorry only could paste from SRD no book in front of me**
“Armed” Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character's or creature's unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed (see natural attacks).
So with that statement, can I use my claws to maek "armed" Unarmed attacks?
So with that statement, can I use my claws to maek "armed" Unarmed attacks?
I don't think so. You can't use a claw to make an unarmed attack any more than you can use a sword to make an unarmed attack.
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hogart is right.
"Strike, Unarmed: A Medium character deals 1d3 points
of nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike. A Small
character deals 1d2 points of nonlethal damage. A monk
or any character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat
can deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes,
at his discretion. The damage from an unarmed strike is
considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that
give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.
Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply
your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier
to attack rolls with an unarmed strike. Unarmed strikes
do not count as natural weapons (see Chapter 8)."
IF, AND ONLY IF YOU ARE A MONK, you may, however, make unarmed strikes while wildshaped or polymorphed, because because you can use any part of your body to make the attacks (i.e. not limited to natural attacks). IF AND ONLY IF YOU ARE A MONK, your unarmed strike can also benefit from spells that enhance natural attacks (i.e. usually unarmed strikes are treated as a light weapon and can only benefit from magic weapon and not magic fang; but a monk's unarmed strike can benefit from magic fang...)
"Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved
Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be
with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk
may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is
no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking
unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus
on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.
Usually a monk’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage,
but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with
no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to
deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.
A monk’s unarmed strike is treated as both a
manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the
purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve
either manufactured weapons or natural weapons."
So a druid/monk in Huge T-Rex form can make unarmed strikes enhanced by "Magic Fang, Greater", and note that all unarmed strikes deal HUGE damage, not MEDIUM. This is an insanely good combo that I will implement as soon as possible in one of my current campaigns, in which I play a druid/fighter. Note that you need at least one level of monk to do this (i.e. Improved Unarmed Strike feat is not enough)
OPTIMAL: Druid8 (for Huge animal access) / Fighter 1 (for extra feat and access to Dragonhide Armor, treated as a full plate, but melded in your body via wild enchantment so not hindering monk abilities) / Monk 11 with Monk's Robe (character's AC bonus and unarmed strikes now as 16th level monk!!!)
OPTIMAL + (less AC, same damage, but with 5th level druid spells): Druid 9 / Monk 11
But your arguement is invalid. Your arguement states that since a Unarmed Strike is not a Natural Attack a Natural Attack is not an Unarmed Strike. But it does not state that anywhere that I have found.
Rather it points more to more the fact a natural attack is an "armed" unarmed attack.
Rather it points more to more the fact a natural attack is an "armed" unarmed attack.
It is. A claw attack is (a) "armed", in the sense that it doesn't provoke an AoO to use, (b) "unarmed", in the sense that it doesn't involve using a manufactured weapon, and (c) an "attack" (that bit's obvious).
But that doesn't mean that every unarmed attack (like a punch, e.g.) you make is "armed" just because you have a claw attack.
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But your arguement is invalid. Your arguement states that since a Unarmed Strike is not a Natural Attack a Natural Attack is not an Unarmed Strike. But it does not state that anywhere that I have found.
Rather it points more to more the fact a natural attack is an "armed" unarmed attack.
Strike, Unarmed: A Medium character deals 1d3 points of nonlethal damage with an unarmed strike. A Small character deals 1d2 points of nonlethal damage. A monk or any character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat can deal lethal or nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes, at his discretion. The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.
An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike. Unarmed strikes do not count as natural weapons (see Combat).
Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys
Ok, So I understand and see your point above(thanks for the patience with me)
Then if I have a claw attack and I have Unarmed Strike and Scorpion Style. Can I hit for claw damage and use the special ability of Scorpion Style?
Then if I have a claw attack and I have Unarmed Strike and Scorpion Style. Can I hit for claw damage and use the special ability of Scorpion Style?
I don't think that's the intent, but the passage you quoted above sort of mushed together a bunch of things (including natural weapons) under the heading of "unarmed attack", so you might be able to argue it.
I wish Jason had used the term "unarmed strike" instead (just like I wished he had used the term "standard action" instead of "attack action") -- the word "attack" isn't specific enough (since it has a generic meaning and a technical meaning, just like the word "enchant").
Then if I have a claw attack and I have Unarmed Strike and Scorpion Style. Can I hit for claw damage and use the special ability of Scorpion Style?I don't think that's the intent, but the passage you quoted above sort of mushed together a bunch of things (including natural weapons) under the heading of "unarmed attack", so you might be able to argue it.
I wish Jason had used the term "unarmed strike" instead (just like I wished he had used the term "standard action" instead of "attack action") -- the word "attack" isn't specific enough (since it has a generic meaning and a technical meaning, just like the word "enchant").
Now if this is allowed its gonna be really nasty...