Alright, here's my question now that Clerics can not anymore wear heavy armors (unless they take the feat, of course):
I had in my campaign a lvl 5 Cleric Warforged who took as its 1st lvl feat the Adamntine Body feat (Eberron's feat).
Now, since that feat considers the Warforged as it is wearing a heavy armor, is the performance hindered by the lack of proficiency in heavy armors or must I consider it as a different effect, thus affecting everything it must, but not touching the proficiency matter?
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Alright, here's my question now that Clerics can not anymore wear heavy armors (unless they take the feat, of course):
I had in my campaign a lvl 5 Cleric Warforged who took as its 1st lvl feat the Adamntine Body feat (Eberron's feat).
Now, since that feat considers the Warforged as it is wearing a heavy armor, is the performance hindered by the lack of proficiency in heavy armors or must I consider it as a different effect, thus affecting everything it must, but not touching the proficiency matter?
Using a strict interpretation of the rules, a Warforged Cleric with the Adamantine Body feat would suffer the nonproficiency penalty, unless s/he also took Heavy Armor Proficiency (feat, or getting it from some other source, such as a Fighter level).
On the other hand, I could understand ruling that the Adamantine Body "applies penalties as if it were heavy armor", but not making the character suffer the additional nonproficiency penalties. Especially since (it sounds like) it is an existing character. If nothing else, I could see "grandfathering-in" Heavy Armor Proficiency for that character.
All depends on how strictly you want to run things.
It is actually a part of the warforged. He is already paying a cost because he can never get rid of it, and he has to spend a feat to have it at first level.
Another way to look at it is that it is basically a now or never decision that you have to spend a feat on that can never be undone. You want a robe, to bad you are a warforged, and you have no slot for a robe.
If the player is going to have to spend two feats he should just take unarmored body, then the feat for heavy armor proficiency so he can choose the armor he wants.
After Edit: I would allow the player to choose again since I dont think it is fair for him to be penalized by rules that came about after the fact.
From reading the ECS the "armor" would count as heavy for speed arcane spell failure and ACP and use of class ability so yes you would need to be able to use heavy armor. So yes you would need a feat at level 1...meaning a 1st level cleric could not have that feat
I myself would just rework him and take mirthal body Instead as it is med armor so said steps it.
I would also talk to my GM about bumping both the by 1 point to match the new heavy and med armors.
Several important FAQ's from Keith Baker the author of the Eberron Setting.
Q: If a Warforged is not proficient with Heavy Armor does he take a non-proficiency penalty for having the Adamantine Body Feat?
A: A warforged is automatically proficient with his own body and never takes a penalty for any Body Feat. Body Feats are not actually Armor and do not ever cause a Armor Check Penalty.
Q: Wait what do you mean Body Feats don't cause an Armor Check Penalty? Its listed as part of the feat and Mithral Fluidity actually says it lowers the Armor Check Penalty by one. So it must be an ACP.
A: Actually while Body Feats do cause a penalty they are not ACP in the exact same sense as armor. In matter of fact Races of Eberron lists that you do NOT double a warforged's swim check penalty as its not actually ACP. The Mithral Fluidity does lower the skill penalties, but the wording is off and its not actually an ACP.
From Hellcow at the WotC Eberron Forums
"Mithral Fluidity is the mistake. Straight from the mouth of the designer: warforged body feats may apply penalties to the same skills, but they do not give you an armor check penalty. Seriously. You've now heard it from both the creator of the warforged and the designer of the warforged feats. If that doesn't clear it up, I'm not sure what will. It's not an armor check penalty."
I stand corrected.
I would allow the player to choose again since I dont think it is fair for him to be penalized by rules that came about after the fact.
Of course, no problem for that, I just needed to know if it was necessary to make him re-feat to avoid penalities. :D
Several important FAQ's from Keith Baker the author of the Eberron Setting.
Q: If a Warforged is not proficient with Heavy Armor does he take a non-proficiency penalty for having the Adamantine Body Feat?
A: A warforged is automatically proficient with his own body and never takes a penalty for any Body Feat. Body Feats are not actually Armor and do not ever cause a Armor Check Penalty.Q: Wait what do you mean Body Feats don't cause an Armor Check Penalty? Its listed as part of the feat and Mithral Fluidity actually says it lowers the Armor Check Penalty by one. So it must be an ACP.
A: Actually while Body Feats do cause a penalty they are not ACP in the exact same sense as armor. In matter of fact Races of Eberron lists that you do NOT double a warforged's swim check penalty as its not actually ACP. The Mithral Fluidity does lower the skill penalties, but the wording is off and its not actually an ACP.From Hellcow at the WotC Eberron Forums
"Mithral Fluidity is the mistake. Straight from the mouth of the designer: warforged body feats may apply penalties to the same skills, but they do not give you an armor check penalty. Seriously. You've now heard it from both the creator of the warforged and the designer of the warforged feats. If that doesn't clear it up, I'm not sure what will. It's not an armor check penalty."
Got it, thanks.
And thanks for all other answers.
I would also talk to my GM about bumping both the by 1 point to match the new heavy and med armors.
Right, I didn't notice the change, thanks.
I stand corrected.
It seems I have to update Guard a bit more now, even if he's no cleric.
It's worth noting that the only penalty one gets for not being proficient in an armor is the ACP to attack rolls.