My Warlock fix - I think


Conversions


(I have a pic too but could not figure how to paste)

Warlock (Pathfinder)

Alignment: Any Evil or any Chaotic.
Hit Die: d8
Class Skills
The Warlock’s class skills are Acrobatics, Bluff, Disguise, Intimidate,
Knowledge (Arcana), (The Planes), (Religion) , Profession,
Sense Motive, Spellcraft and Use Magic Device
Skill Ranks per Level: 4+ Intelligence Modifier

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Warlock.
Weapons and Armor Proficiency
Same as old Warlock

Cantrips(sp)
At first level the warlock gains the use of cantrips as a spell at will.
His caster level equals his class level. The number of cantrips he gains equals his
Charisma modifier.

Eldritch Blast (sp)
The warlock gains Eldritch Blast that follows the rules of the old warlock class
With this exception: Every level the blast gets a plus one to the damage done.
So a 7th level Warlock does 4d6+7 in damage.

Invocation
The Warlock advances in invocations as he raises in levels ( Least 1st, Lesser 6th,
Greater 11th and Dark at 16th level).

The Warlock gains an invocation at EVERY level ending in having five invocations
Per grade, by 20th level.

Damage Reduction (SU)
Same as the old Warlock

Deceive Item(EX)
Same as the old Warlock

Fiendish Resilience (SU)
Same as the old Warlock

Energy Resistance
Same as the old Warlock

Imbue Item
Same as the old warlock

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Moved to conversion


So, are the invocations the same as before, or is there going to be some updating involved with that?

You might even pick through the new pathfinder abilities (domains, schools, bloodlines) and shuffle some of them into the invocations.


Sean FitzSimon wrote:

So, are the invocations the same as before, or is there going to be some updating involved with that?

You might even pick through the new pathfinder abilities (domains, schools, bloodlines) and shuffle some of them into the invocations.

Yea the more I read the old ones it's apparent that some will have to be changed. I get my pathfinder core book in the next few days and will have to look into it.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Exiled Prince wrote:
Yea the more I read the old ones it's apparent that some will have to be changed. I get my pathfinder core book in the next few days and will have to look into it.

Why wait? With the pathfinder system reference doc you could get started now ;)

Liberty's Edge

He might need fly as a class skill if you're keeping that invocation, but I reckon you'll check that out when you get the book.
I was wondering why 4 skill points per level?

Dark Archive

I would dump it back down to around 1 invocation / 2 levels, but give the Warlock the ability to swap out one invocation for another of that level or lower after an 8 hour ritual.

Alternately, I'd decouple Blast Shape / Blast Essence Invocations from the more unique ones like Summon Swarm or Shatter or Fell Flight, so that the Warlock could get more Invocations, but X number of them must be Blast Shape/Essence and X number the SLA-type ones.

If the Cantrip feature is retained, they should be explicitly stated to be Spell-like Abilities (and based off of Cha) and not spells to be cast.


Might I suggest the Shadow Bloodline from Wayfinder? That would be a good backstory reason for his warlock powers("I was born near an entrance to the Shadow Plane.")

Other Bloodline I think could work:
1) Abyssal
2) Infernal
3) Destined
5) Fey
6) Celestial
7) Undead
8) Arcane(with some changes)

These are just my opinions. I will gladly debate them, but arguments I will try my best to avoid.


Heathansson wrote:
He might need fly as a class skill if you're keeping that invocation, but I reckon you'll check that out when you get the book.

Fly is such a retarded skill. Why don't we include the walk skill, or the run skill?

Besides that, I don't believe adding a +1 to eldritch blast based on damage dice is a great way to go. Eldritch blast is already over powered (ranged touch means you never miss, except for a one; sneak-attack similar damage) and doesn't really need the help.

Invocations are best if you start them off at 2 for level one, then increase them by 1 every two levels, ending at 12 for level 20. I also moved Greater invocations down to level 10, to line up with the new gaining method. Lastly, I moved Resilience down a couple levels and just gave the warlock "Regernation" as per the ring of regeneration. It auto scales with level and doesn't really add a whole lot during combat, but will keep the warlock going (his whole shtick.)

My 2cp.


Locke1520 wrote:
Exiled Prince wrote:
Yea the more I read the old ones it's apparent that some will have to be changed. I get my pathfinder core book in the next few days and will have to look into it.
Why wait? With the pathfinder system reference doc you could get started now ;)

I'll take a look. Thanks


I just overlooked fly but yea that will be incluced ( I'm in the process of writing it up).
I dont think that giving the warlock an invocation every level is overpowering and here's why. I've played a warlock since the class first came out (I've played several in fact) and have found that the number of invocations one has does not make the class over powering. Warlock invocations are very specific in what they do and who they help (99% of the time the warlock only). Also when talking about least invocations the warlock could have them all and still not do much. Case in point swimming the Styx. At levels 1-5 somewhat powerful but not so at higher levels when wizards and clerics get similar spells. In fact the one character that showed up my warlock time after time was the cleric. EVERTHING I could do he could do better. What's that? Swimming the Styx? Oh I have Mass water breathing for the whole party.

Same thing with the eldritch blast. The wizard had spells that did more damage and some of them were not subjected to spell resistance. I could never do the same damage in one turn that a wizard could. Yea I could blast all day but it would take more time than the encounter lasted. Remember I might be able to do 4d6 but I have to roll it and that comes out half or less more times than not. Lets say in my new thought we take that 4d6 +7. Now from my own experiance when I was this level the typical roll would be say a 12. So in the new it's 19. Not that overpowering.

BTW what's Wayfinder?

Also, I could not figure out how to past photos so here is a link to a picture I did for the Warlock.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/princeofcincinnati/3857189851/


Exiled Prince wrote:
BTW what's Wayfinder?

This is Wayfinder.


I'd say to leave the +1 per d6 off but definitely remove the decelerating blast progression in the original. I would make the blast decelerate at Epic levels instead where it would be needed IMO.

Split up the Imbue Item into tiers so that the Warlock doesn’t have to waste a bunch of feats that he can’t use until level 12.

Imbue Item
Least Invocation Tier: Scrolls, Potions
Lesser Invocation Tier: Wondrous Items, Wand
Greater Invocation Tier: Magic Arms and Armor, Ring
Dark Invocation Tier: Rod, Staff

You still have to spend the feat in order to create magic items of the type but at least it’s feasible now. You also have to wait longer than most casters to get many of these. I guess that's the price for being able to do it all.

These two changes alone would easily make the Warlock on par with the rest of the classes. He doesn’t really need much.

EDIT: The above is all based on the original Warlock except with the propsed changes, just in case I wasn't clear on that.


What would qualify the warlock to have Acrobatics?

Wait...I see, the stupid decision to roll Jump into a single Dex-based skill. Gosh, now the warlock could balance, jump, and tumble for one skill investment! What a great design decision.

Sorry...that turned into a threadjack.

I'd lose the Acrobatics skill.

Scarab Sages

Wow two Pathfinder design SLAMS in one thread...nice...

Anyway, Interestign conversion I'll have to mull it over to really digest the design.

for the design slammers

Spoiler:
Fly: Hm let's think, you do have a walk skill, you learn it when you're young...let's consider it part of dexterity.

Acrobatics: yeah Jason desided to remove some skill bloat and rolled jump, balance and tumble into one skill...and named it acrobatics...do you jump when you do acrobatics? how about balance? did we really need 3 skills for that?

No need to be so nasty in a thread, just house-rule it and be done with it.

Dark Archive

neceros wrote:
Fly is such a retarded skill. Why don't we include the walk skill, or the run skill?

Or a climb skill or a jump skill or a swim skill! Oh wait.

If anything, there should be a run skill, too, and ditch the Feat of that name.

Scarab Sages

Set wrote:
neceros wrote:
Fly is such a retarded skill. Why don't we include the walk skill, or the run skill?

Or a climb skill or a jump skill or a swim skill! Oh wait.

If anything, there should be a run skill, too, and ditch the Feat of that name.

Agreed Run should be a skill and not a feat...include fleet of foot in with it...

remove move bonuses from Barbarians, Monks and Travel domain and give it a +10 or more circumstance bonus to the Run skill...


The Shadow wrote:
Exiled Prince wrote:
BTW what's Wayfinder?
This is Wayfinder.

Free??? It's mine!


Frogboy wrote:

I'd say to leave the +1 per d6 off but definitely remove the decelerating blast progression in the original. I would make the blast decelerate at Epic levels instead where it would be needed IMO.

Split up the Imbue Item into tiers so that the Warlock doesn’t have to waste a bunch of feats that he can’t use until level 12.

Imbue Item
Least Invocation Tier: Scrolls, Potions
Lesser Invocation Tier: Wondrous Items, Wand
Greater Invocation Tier: Magic Arms and Armor, Ring
Dark Invocation Tier: Rod, Staff

You still have to spend the feat in order to create magic items of the type but at least it’s feasible now. You also have to wait longer than most casters to get many of these. I guess that's the price for being able to do it all.

These two changes alone would easily make the Warlock on par with the rest of the classes. He doesn’t really need much.

EDIT: The above is all based on the original Warlock except with the propsed changes, just in case I wasn't clear on that.

you know I thought of something similar. So you think Imbue at 1st is not too powerful a thing? I think I'll use that. Thanks.

ps. would a warlock ever have scribe scroll as it involves writing magic spells?


well I changed a few things, still not sure.

Warlock (Pathfinder)
To those not knowledgeable in things Arcane,
the difference in Warlocks and Sorcerers
May seem cosmetic.
Sorcerers tend to have more distant relations
with magical beings going back
Generations while Warlocks (those born warlocks)
tend to be more recent no more
Than three or four generations.
Many born warlocks are actually Tieflings, Fey-touched etc.
Also, some Warlocks gain their power not from ancestry,
but from pacts made with powerful outsiders.

Alignment: Any Evil or any Chaotic.
Hit Die: d8

Class Skills
The Warlock’s class skills are Acrobatics, Bluff, Disguise, Fly, Intimidate,
Knowledge (Arcana), (The Planes), (Religion) , Profession,
Sense Motive, Spellcraft and Use Magic Device

Skill Ranks per Level: 4+ Intelligence Modifier

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Warlock.
Weapons and Armor Proficiency
Same as old Warlock
Cantrips(sp)
At first level the warlock gains the use of cantrips as a spell at will.
His caster level equals his class level. The number of cantrips he gains equals his
Charisma modifier.
Eldritch Blast (sp)
The warlock gains Eldritch Blast that follows the rules of the old warlock class
With this exception: Every level the blast gets a plus one to the damage done.
So a 7th level Warlock does 4d6+7 in damage.
Invocation
The Warlock advances in invocations as he raises in levels ( Least 1st, Lesser 6th,
Greater 11th and Dark at 16th level).
The Warlock gains an invocation at EVERY level ending in having five invocations
Per grade, by 20th level.
Damage Reduction (SU)
Same as the old Warlock
Deceive Item(EX)
Same as the old Warlock
Fiendish Resilience (SU)
Same as the old Warlock
Energy Resistance
Same as the old Warlock
Imbue Item
This is gained at Third level with the warlock being able to do magic items depending on
His level.
At Least Invocation tier : Potions ( scribe scrolls??? )
At Lesser Invocation tier : Wondrous Items, Wands
At Greater Invocation Tier: Magic Arms and Armor and Rings
At Dark Invocation Tier: Rod and Staff.
The warlock still must have the Item creation feat to create said item.

Liberty's Edge

neceros wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
He might need fly as a class skill if you're keeping that invocation, but I reckon you'll check that out when you get the book.

Fly is such a retarded skill. Why don't we include the walk skill, or the run skill?

If you succeed at a d.c.10 sense motive:

Spoiler:
You can tell, by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man. No time to talk.


Heathansson wrote:
neceros wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
He might need fly as a class skill if you're keeping that invocation, but I reckon you'll check that out when you get the book.

Fly is such a retarded skill. Why don't we include the walk skill, or the run skill?

If you succeed at a d.c.10 sense motive:

** spoiler omitted **

I just had visions of Travolta carrying paint cans.

Liberty's Edge

MY HEAH! MY HEAH! I SPENTCHOO HOWIZZ ON MY HEAH! DON HIMEE IMAH HEAH!"


Exiled Prince wrote:
ps. would a warlock ever have scribe scroll as it involves writing magic spells?

Well, it's been a while since I examined the literal text of the Imbue Item special ability so I can't be certain. It seemed to make sense at the time as it was an item creation feat and I could emulate any spell in the game. I'd have to look at it again and see if I interpret it the same way as I did back then. There might be a grey area there although I don't see how this would be much different from creating potions. There's just more restriction on who can use them (and no restriction of level).

I know when I originally played a Warlock, that was the one I picked up. His ability to read any kind of scroll with UMD went a long way to make up for his lack of versatility. People often dislike the Warlock for versatility reasons. I don't think they bought enough scrolls.

Scarab Sages

Put the skill points back at 2 per level.

I really don't see the reason to increase the invocations the warlock gets. If you want him to have more just take the Extra Invocation feat, you get more feats in Pathfinder.

Why can't you play it as is? The warlock is at a good level of power already.


fray wrote:

Put the skill points back at 2 per level.

I really don't see the reason to increase the invocations the warlock gets. If you want him to have more just take the Extra Invocation feat, you get more feats in Pathfinder.

Why can't you play it as is? The warlock is at a good level of power already.

You must not have read my previous posts. As for the extra Invocation feat that gives you something like three extra ones because of all the restictions placed on it. I believe you cannot take it until 6th level for one thing.


You might want to take a look at the Pathfinder Warlock in Tome of Secrets. It's actually pretty nice (once I got past some knee jerks).


nighttree wrote:
You might want to take a look at the Pathfinder Warlock in Tome of Secrets. It's actually pretty nice (once I got past some knee jerks).

Yea I mention in another thread that I have that pdf and find that while it's a good direction, it's far short of the original. There is no flight or teleport or eldirtch blast type of things in that class.


Exiled Prince wrote:
nighttree wrote:
You might want to take a look at the Pathfinder Warlock in Tome of Secrets. It's actually pretty nice (once I got past some knee jerks).
Yea I mention in another thread that I have that pdf and find that while it's a good direction, it's far short of the original. There is no flight or teleport or eldirtch blast type of things in that class.

OK, I'm confused.....big time.....

Arcane Bolt is superior both in range, and the fact that as a (Su) it bypasses spellresistance, there are also class features that allow you to fire multiple blasts per turn (Arcane flurry), Bursts (Arcane burst) and at 16th level, you can take Arcane eruption and fire a number of bolts that all do 40 ft bursts.....that's better than the WOTC version right there.

Want to t-port, take either Dimensional step at 8th level or Combat teleport at 12th level.

Your right about the lack of flight, but heck that's an easy one to create.

Are you sure that you didn't just look at the table without looking at the School abilities you get to choose from ???


maybe... I'll have to look at it when I can. thanks for pointing it out. I read so much in a day that I get things confused. the one thing I did not like about the book in general is that it deviats from the core rules ie empty levels, bab, etc. But I will look at it again. One other thing I remember being confused by, if I remember right, is things that in the rule book that says things like "you can travel 30' per day" or some such and there being no clairfication on what that translates to when you can do it unlimited.


alright I just re read it and have one question : What's the distance of the bolt? As I go through just this one class there are many other questons about the abilities that the splat does not answer.

In "trembling Presence" it says magic resistance applies but it's a supernatural which conteridicts this .

why is break enchantment usable once per day? if it was too powerful why not just alter it so I can use it at will???


Exiled Prince wrote:
alright I just re read it and have one question : What's the distance of the bolt? As I go through just this one class there are many other questons about the abilities that the splat does not answer.

range 100 ft + 10 ft per level, a big improvement on the old version.

Exiled Prince wrote:
In "trembling Presence" it says magic resistance applies but it's a supernatural which conteridicts this .

Personally, I find some of these departures from the norm confusing as well. With any luck there will be some clerification on some points.

For the time being, I'm going to run trembeling presence ass a (Su) and have it bypass SR.

Exiled Prince wrote:
why is break enchantment usable once per day? if it was too powerful why not just alter it so I can use it at will???

As I read it, it says you can use it on a single person or object once per day. So you can use it at will, but only once per day on the same target.

I'm in no way suggesting that there are not problems that need to be cleared up.
I am in full agreement that the wording of some of the abilities could use clerification in the wording.
Not to mention that I would like to see a greater range of abilities (we have considered allowing the Warlock to pull abilities from Sorcerer bloodlines as well as the Wizard schools).


amazing what a little bit of sleep will do for you. I think I'm going to make it a Prestige class. SO It's moving to Homebrew.

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