Rules Clarification: Dirge of doom, Dazzling Display, (fear stacking)


Rules Questions


Several questions in one.

1st) I guess this could apply to Dirge of Doom and just Intimidate as well but Dazzling Display is more dramatic.

• Dirge of Doom allows you to make a foe Shaken but doesn't allow you to make a currently Shaken foe Frightened.

• Dazzling Display makes use Intimidate to make a foes Shaken.

• A foe who is Shaken becomes Frightened due to Fear stacking.

Currently the way everything is worded if you use Dirge of Doom and then Dazzling Display you can attempt to make foes Frightened. Dirge makes them Shaken, Dazzling stacks to make the frightened.

Done the other way, Dazzling first, Dirge second, the foe is only Shaken.

Should Dirge of Dooms Shaken condition not count toward Fear stacking at all?

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2nd) How many targets does Dirge of Doom effect? All foes within 30 feet?


They should definitely work together.
Otherwise you get into the realm of Fear-Effect-but-not-Fear-Effect.

Other stuff works wonkily like this as well:
The Barbarian Terrifying Howl ONLY works on already Shaken opponents, for instance.
IMHO, neither of them (Dirge/Howl) should have such restrictions.

But as is, whoever has Dazzling Display is everybody's friend for tag-team combos :-)
(Dazzling Display seems like a good Feat for a Bard though, given it's synergy with Dirge and their CHA/Skills)


Resurrecting an old thread!

Okay, so you use Dirge to make opponents shaken, and then dazzling display to cause them to become frightened and run away. Let's say the intimidate roll means they are going to run for 4 rounds.

My question is about the relationship between the duration of the frightened condition, and the duration of the dirge.

Dirge says "The effect persists for as long as the enemy is within 30 feet and the bard continues his performance."

Intimidate says "the target is shaken for 1 round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. You can only threaten opponents in this way if they are within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you."

The dirge is a necessary set up for the frightening intimidate roll, but does it need to continue for the four rounds they are running away, or can you stop singing?

Will stopping the dirge stop their being frightened?

Thanks!
Prawn


Intimidate to Demoralize has been eratta'd to no longer stack with any other fear effect to increase a fear level. So Dazzling Display/Intimidate can't ever be a part of any equation that produces the Frightened or Panicked condition. Sorry.


Can you tell me where to find this?


Found the FAQ!
Thanks.

Intimidate can't be part of fear stacking. Got it.

How about dirge + the 3rd level spell Fear?

Dirge makes them shaken.

Fear makes them panicked, if they fail their save. If they make their save, they are shaken. If they are shaken already because of Dirge, and they are shaken again by Fear, Shaken + Shaken means they are frightened and will run away for one round, right?

Liberty's Edge

Seems correct to me. The basic decision is: can things that normally not move targets beyond shaken still contribute to stacking? Does the order matter? Obviously Fear (made save) + Dirge = shaken, but does Dirge + Fear (made save) = frightened? I think so.

Liberty's Edge

Though I just had my DM tell me that things with the phrase 'can't make worse' are strictly nonstacking.


TwoWolves wrote:


Intimidate to Demoralize has been eratta'd to no longer stack with any other fear effect to increase a fear level.

Where is this ruling? The general FAQ says nothing. THe errata merely says that Demoralize cannot be re-used on the same target to increase the condition, but it says nothing of using it after or before another source?

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

FlorianF wrote:
TwoWolves wrote:


Intimidate to Demoralize has been eratta'd to no longer stack with any other fear effect to increase a fear level.
Where is this ruling? The general FAQ says nothing. THe errata merely says that Demoralize cannot be re-used on the same target to increase the condition, but it says nothing of using it after or before another source?

I'm with FlorianF, the FAQ doesn't cover this at all.

The latest CRB makes it clear that doing Intimidate and then Dirge of Doom will accomplish nothing more than Shaken.

It also makes it clear that Intimidate followed by Intimidate will at best extend the Shaken status.

But it does not make it clear that Dirge followed by Intimidate can't bring a creature up to Frightened.

I do read it that one could not then Intimidate again to Panic a creature, but could probably make the Frightened status last longer.

An interesting question though, is once the creature is Frightened, could one stop the Dirge to save rounds on Bardic Music without removing the Shaken building block of this trick?


All in all, I can understand the elegance in having progressive morale conditions, but it's a combo trap. It would have been better to not have this shaken--> frighten --> panick stacking at all, and use ad hoc rules only, to prevent the inevitable abuse and tricky questions.

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