Demoralizing opponent is a standard action.
I think the first part was a general description of the Feat.
The actual crunch part where the Standard Action is specified uses the singular noun.
Just did a quick comparison of Intimidate/Demoralize between d20srd and the prd:
d20srd
Demoralize Opponent
You can also use Intimidate to weaken an opponent’s resolve in combat. To do so, make an Intimidate check opposed by the target’s modified level check (see above). If you win, the target becomes shaken for 1 round. A shaken character takes a -2 penalty on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. You can intimidate only an opponent that you threaten in melee combat and that can see you.
prd
Demoralize: You can use this skill to cause your opponents to become shaken for a number of rounds. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier. If you are successful, the target is shaken for 1 round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. You can only threaten opponents in this way if they are within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you.
Hope that helps :)
Intimidate Skill
Demoralize: You can use this skill to cause your opponents to become shaken for a number of rounds. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier. If you are successful, the target is shaken for 1 round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. You can only threaten opponents in this way if they are within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you."
In 3.5 you could only target a single creature to be affected by Demoralize. Going by the highlighted section I do not see this changed, but its not as clear as the first sentence uses opponents instead of opponent.
The Dazzling Display feat is ALL opponents within 30ft of your character. Which makes it worth taking 2 feats in as the PRPG Intimidate can now last longer than 1 round also as Jon Arason pointed out above.
Slightly off-topic, but what I don't get is that the Barbarian Rage Power "Terrifying Howl" as written cannot benefit from Maxed Intimidate Ranks+Class Skill Bonus, Cha Bonus, Skill Focus:Intimidate/Persuasive, or any other bonuses to Intimidate.
Given it's built upon a Power that DOES use the Intimidate skill, which implies the character might have put significant effort into maximizing usage of that skill, it seems a strange proposition to throw that investment out the door, while purporting to be a "high level power". The fact it only works on opponents ALREADY shaken just adds to it's questionableness.
Was this an over-sight?
Should we expect an errate stating that BAB + STR can be used in place of Skill Ranks (if better),
but so that other Intimidate bonuses would still apply?
"Action: Using Intimidate to change an opponent’s
attitude requires 1 minute of conversation. Demoralizing
an opponent is a standard action."
Based on this, I would interpret that you can only demoralize 1 opponent with an Intimidate check whereas Dazzling Display would let you make multiple Intimidate checks for everyone within 30'.
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I want to revive this discussion if I can.
I too have been comparing Dazzling Display with Intimidate's Demoralize.
Demoralize: You can use this skill to cause your opponents (I want to emphasize here that this specifically refers to multiple targets) to become shaken for a number of rounds. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier. If you are successful, the target is shaken for 1 round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. You can only threaten opponents in this way if they are within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you.
In no way does Intimidate's Demoralize limit the use to one opponent.
The ONLY advantage to Dazzling Display that I can see is that the opponents do not have to hear your Demoralize attempt.
But, this is at the cost of requiring a weapon in hand (for which you have the Weapon Focus feat) and requires a FULL ROUND action instead of a Standard action.
It seems to me that Dazzling Display is a feat tax to gain other feats in the Weapon Focus tree. Honestly how often does a fighter run into opponents that cannot hear?
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Intimidate Skill
Demoralize: You can use this skill to cause your opponents to become shaken for a number of rounds. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier. If you are successful, the target is shaken for 1 round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. You can only threaten opponents in this way if they are within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you."In 3.5 you could only target a single creature to be affected by Demoralize. Going by the highlighted section I do not see this changed, but its not as clear as the first sentence uses opponents instead of opponent.
The highlighted section uses opponentS twice and ends with "if THEY are within 30 feet."
It is clear within Demoralize that it applies to multiple opponents.
The reason that one sentence uses a singular noun is that the previous sentence states that the check must beat each individual opponent's DC, so you check each opponent, and if successful against that opponent it is shaken, then move on to the next opponent to compare results. You have to put the whole thing in context. You can't just look at a single sentence out of context. :) It's not the Bible where that is the norm :)
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I've been away from 3.x for awhile while I was force-fed 4.0, but, as I recall Intimidate, it was always against one target, yes.
by "opponents" does it somehow mean a single target?
3.x was specifically against a single opponent. However, Pathfinder's version of Demoralize is clearly against all opponents within 30 feet that can both see and hear you.
And unless the English language has suddenly made a dramatic change that I am unaware of the plural form of a word refers to multiples, so unless someone can figure out a way to change the rules of the language, no, opponents means opponents, as in more than one target.
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I believe this has come up in other threads and been responded. I don't know the exact thread, they all blur together. In any case, using Intimidate to demoralize only works against a single target. The first sentence that confuses people is meant to be a description of the act, not the exact effect you get with one standard action. You *can* demoralize your opponents over multiple rounds, just not one.
The benefit of Dazzling Display is that it works against everyone within 30 feet, instead of just one.
I am 100% on this fact. I wish I could find a thread to help, but it is late. I may search tomorrow if someone doesn't find it for me before then.
As for some actual evidence without the thread:
Demoralize: You can use this skill to cause your opponents to become shaken for a number of rounds. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier. If you are successful, the target is shaken for 1 round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. You can only threaten opponents in this way if they are within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you.
The first sentence does reference multiple opponents, but I maintain that it's descriptory. All the rest of the skill reference's a single target. "target's Hit Dice", "target's Wisdom modifier" (not targets', target's). "target is shaken".
The last part mentions multiples, but just for purposes of saying who you can use this against.
In any case, it's one person. :)
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was this cleared up by Paizo staff specifically? Because no matter how you read it, it is very clear by the RAW that Demoralize refers to multiple opponents. The crunch part itself refers to plurals.
See, the effect of demoralizing opponents over multiple rounds instead of one round just makes no sense from the RAW.
Now, I am more than willing to go with "that was the intent" of the designers, but by the RAW that is in no way evident.
And what are you doing up so late? lol go to bed! lol
okay, I am going to go with the "intent" of Intimidate was to be against a single opponent per action... but they failed miserably in writing it. :) hey only human (and a few elves so what can we expect from them really) :)
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I believe this has come up in other threads and been responded. I don't know the exact thread, they all blur together. In any case, using Intimidate to demoralize only works against a single target. The first sentence that confuses people is meant to be a description of the act, not the exact effect you get with one standard action. You *can* demoralize your opponents over multiple rounds, just not one.
The benefit of Dazzling Display is that it works against everyone within 30 feet, instead of just one.
I am 100% on this fact. I wish I could find a thread to help, but it is late. I may search tomorrow if someone doesn't find it for me before then.
As for some actual evidence without the thread:
Demoralize: You can use this skill to cause your opponents to become shaken for a number of rounds. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier. If you are successful, the target is shaken for 1 round. This duration increases by 1 round for every 5 by which you beat the DC. You can only threaten opponents in this way if they are within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you.The first sentence does reference multiple opponents, but I maintain that it's descriptory. All the rest of the skill reference's a single target. "target's Hit Dice", "target's Wisdom modifier" (not targets', target's). "target is shaken".
The last part mentions multiples, but just for purposes of saying who you can use this against.
In any case, it's one person. :)
I can see the logic of that argument, BUT :)
That exact same language would need to be used when comparing results to individual opponents when used against many. In other words the results are applied individually, not as an all or nothing effect.
BUT like I said, I believe the INTENT was for it to be against lone opponents... I suppose... *shrug* :)
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was this cleared up by Paizo staff specifically? Because no matter how you read it, it is very clear by the RAW that Demoralize refers to multiple opponents. The crunch part itself refers to plurals.
See, the effect of demoralizing opponents over multiple rounds instead of one round just makes no sense from the RAW.
Now, I am more than willing to go with "that was the intent" of the designers, but by the RAW that is in no way evident.
And what are you doing up so late? lol go to bed! lol
okay, I am going to go with the "intent" of Intimidate was to be against a single opponent per action... but they failed miserably in writing it. :) hey only human (and a few elves so what can we expect from them really) :)
Heh, a late night running a Society game for the guys, Mark's new one. #47 I think. Near TPK. Great fun. No actual deaths. Scared the s*%! out of them though.
In any case, I am almost certain it was cleared up by Paizo staff, I'll look tomorrow. Maybe I'll ask one of the Paizo guys next time I see them. Except Bulmahn. I bring up anything rules related near him and he will eat me alive. :o
The thing with Demoralize is that it makes sense if you completely ignore that first sentence. Then everything points towards a single target. That first sentence is all that's confusing the issue and it could just as easily be describing the Demoralize ability over an entire combat. The other thing is, as pointed out, if Demoralize can be used against multiple opponents then it kind of makes Dazzling Display useless. Or at least very very very not useful.
Sorry I can't help more. Off to sleep I go! I have a long day of testing games, writing software, and adding to the Archives. ^_^
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was this cleared up by Paizo staff specifically? Because no matter how you read it, it is very clear by the RAW that Demoralize refers to multiple opponents. The crunch part itself refers to plurals.
See, the effect of demoralizing opponents over multiple rounds instead of one round just makes no sense from the RAW.
Now, I am more than willing to go with "that was the intent" of the designers, but by the RAW that is in no way evident.
And what are you doing up so late? lol go to bed! lol
okay, I am going to go with the "intent" of Intimidate was to be against a single opponent per action... but they failed miserably in writing it. :) hey only human (and a few elves so what can we expect from them really) :)
Heh, a late night running a Society game for the guys, Mark's new one. #47 I think. Near TPK. Great fun. No actual deaths. Scared the s&~& out of them though.
In any case, I am almost certain it was cleared up by Paizo staff, I'll look tomorrow. Maybe I'll ask one of the Paizo guys next time I see them. Except Bulmahn. I bring up anything rules related near him and he will eat me alive. :o
The thing with Demoralize is that it makes sense if you completely ignore that first sentence. Then everything points towards a single target. That first sentence is all that's confusing the issue and it could just as easily be describing the Demoralize ability over an entire combat. The other thing is, as pointed out, if Demoralize can be used against multiple opponents then it kind of makes Dazzling Display useless. Or at least very very very not useful.
Sorry I can't help more. Off to sleep I go! I have a long day of testing games, writing software, and adding to the Archives. ^_^
don't worry about it none. I'll go with it :) And yeah ADD TO THE ARCHIVES!
WAIT!!!!! You DIDN'T kill anyone? What a darn shame! lol
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I have never interpretted Demoralise as affecting more than one person at a time. Imagine if the book were describing a a taser gun (the ones with the trailing wires thus limiting distance, though I imagine 30 feet is much more than they have in real life)
"You can use a taser to cause your opponents to become shaken for a number of rounds...You can only shoot opponents in this way if they are within 30 feet and you have a clear line of sight....Shooting a taser at an opponent is a standard action."
It seems clear that it is talking generically at first "a taser can shoot people" "you can only shoot people within 30 feet" and then states that in order to shoot the taser at a person it requires a standard action". Knowing what a taser is, I don't think anyone could read the above paragraph and interpret it to mean the taser can shoot everyone in 30 feet in a single shot!
Agree with Mage. Their fluff description for Intimidate makes it sound sort of like it affects multiple targets but I don't think that was ever their intent. I came across this a few weeks ago myself and came to the conclusion that the point of dazz is that it lets you intimidate everyone at once.
I have to agree with DigitalMage. They specifically say that 1 opponent = 1 standard action in the skill description.