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A Greatsword wielder has little to no advantage against sword and board, and definitely fails to Two Weapon Fighting. Since they don't get a 2:1 on Power Attack anymore, their only real benefit is having a bigger weapon and full Str x 1.5 on each attack. As I mentioned above, a Greatsword deals 2.5 more pts then a Longsword, and a 30 Str deals +5 Str dmg.
THW now gets 3:1 on Power Attacks, so for a 20th level fighter with a 30 strength, the difference between longsword and greatsword would 13.5 points of damage per attack.
THW benefits the most from feats like Deadly Stroke that multiply the damage as a standard action.THW certainly has its merits, as have S&B, TWF and ranged. All of those are viable, it depends on the personal preference which style one choses.
And there's nothing stopping a rogue from taking weapon focus, so a 20th level rogue would 'only' be short 10 points of attack bonus in comparison to a 20th level fighter.
So, if the figher has a .75 chance to hit the dragon with power attack, the rogues chance would be .25. And if the fighers chance would be .5, the rogue would only hit on a 20.
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...STR 30 ( 16 + 3Lv + 6 Belt +5 Inherent)
DEX 25 ( 17 + 2 Lv + 6 Belt )
CON 18 ( 12 + 6 Belt )
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 10HP: ~ 232 (19D10 (~104,5) + 90)
AC: 39+ (Base 10 + 14 Fullplate + Amulett 5 + Ring 5 + Dex 5)
Dexterity not fully used sadly,...
SOOOOOOO many people create builds that fit the particular situation they are in - can't do that in the game:
"Hold on GM; I gotta make a new fighter now to take on this new XYZ monster you just plopped in front of me; the guy I have this second isn't quite the right fit for the battle..."
Ya - GM's always allow that...
Fighting other humanoids that are NOT fighters or casters - seems to work fine for the most part. As noted above by someone else your saves will be pathetic (as noted above - Will saves for example; the Bane of all fighter types). But there is more out there than non fighters or casters. Another fighter of equal level with a different set of stats would crush this guy without question.
I agree. It's not that difficult to build a fighter for a particular situation. It is more difficult (but equally challenging and rewarding) to build a fighter-type based on feats and ability scores.
Two Weapon Fighter (Str)
Two-handed Fighter (Str)
Archer Fighter (Dex or Str)
Weapon Finesse Fighter (Dex)
Hitpoint Tank Fighter (Con)
Mobile/Strategic Fighter (Int) -Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, etc.
Perceptive/Morale Fighter (Wis) -high Will save, difficult to frighten, etc.
Leader/Morale Fighter (Charisma) -Intimidate, Diplomacy, etc.
The 1:3 For THW Power Attack is again, only an advantage on standard actions, where you only get one blow. THW already was tops there.
With full attack actions, TWF gets the same, and SAB can either Bash for TWF effect or drop the shield for THW effect. THe old system of double dmg is what made THW superior...vastly superior on single attacks and nominally superior on full attacks.
THW isn't the best style anymore, especially with shields providing such an AC advantage.
==Aelryinth
Invisibility and feinting don't make people flat-footed. They deny them their dex bonus to AC, which is a part of being flat-footed.
Two quick points:
1. Any math on a 20th level fighter is automatically invalid right out of the blocks, because it relies on the capstone class feature -- which 99.9% of players will never get to use. Doing the math for a 15th level build would be a lot more useful in all cases.
2. Has anyone checked out all those shield-bash feats where you get all the benefits of TWF and also get to keep your AC bonuses? Seems like a shield-and-scimitar fighter (bashing as TWF, and scimitar for crit feats) could be pretty useful:
1 - TWF, iron will (obligatory for all fighters)
2 - Improved shield bash
3 - Shield focus
4 - Improved iron will
5 - Weapon focus (scimitar), weapon training (blades) +1
6 - Improved TWF
7 - Shield slam
8 - Impr. critical (scimitar)
9 - Critical focus, weapon training: shields +1/blades +2
11 - Bleeding critical
12 - Shield master
13 - Greater TWF, weapon training: shields +2/blades +3
14 - Critical mastery
15 - Blinding critical
Two quick points:
1. Any math on a 20th level fighter is automatically invalid right out of the blocks, because it relies on the capstone class feature -- which 99.9% of players will never get to use. Doing the math for a 15th level build would be a lot more useful in all cases.
2. Has anyone checked out all those shield-bash feats where you get all the benefits of TWF and also get to keep your AC bonuses? Seems like a shield-and-scimitar fighter (bashing as TWF, and scimitar for crit feats) could be pretty useful:
1 - TWF, iron will (obligatory for all fighters)
2 - Improved shield bash
3 - Shield focus
4 - Improved iron will
5 - Weapon focus (scimitar), weapon training (blades) +1
6 - Improved TWF
7 - Shield slam
8 - Impr. critical (scimitar)
9 - Critical focus, weapon training: shields +1/blades +2
11 - Bleeding critical
12 - Shield master
13 - Greater TWF, weapon training: shields +2/blades +3
14 - Critical mastery
15 - Blinding critical
Not bad, but you probably will want Weapon Focus and Improved Weapon focus for the scimitar. Shield master only negates the penalties for the shield, not the main hand weapon. So if your using a light shield, your at -2, or if your using a heavy shield, at -4 on your attacks for the scimitar. The bonus from Weapon Training: Blades ofsets it some, sure, but still...
And...yeah...some other stuff, but its mainly design preferences, not worth the arguement...the Weapon Focus thing is the only big thing I see.
Not bad, but you probably will want Weapon Focus and Improved Weapon focus for the scimitar.
I had Weapon Focus, and agree with Greater Weapon Focus. In retrospect, I'd also put Double Slice and Two-Weapon Rend in there, in priority to GTWF.
Two quick points:
1. Any math on a 20th level fighter is automatically invalid right out of the blocks, because it relies on the capstone class feature -- which 99.9% of players will never get to use. Doing the math for a 15th level build would be a lot more useful in all cases.
2. Has anyone checked out all those shield-bash feats where you get all the benefits of TWF and also get to keep your AC bonuses? Seems like a shield-and-scimitar fighter (bashing as TWF, and scimitar for crit feats) could be pretty useful:
1 - TWF, iron will (obligatory for all fighters)
2 - Improved shield bash
3 - Shield focus
4 - Improved iron will
5 - Weapon focus (scimitar), weapon training (blades) +1
6 - Improved TWF
7 - Shield slam
8 - Impr. critical (scimitar)
9 - Critical focus, weapon training: shields +1/blades +2
11 - Bleeding critical
12 - Shield master
13 - Greater TWF, weapon training: shields +2/blades +3
14 - Critical mastery
15 - Blinding critical
This build slightly altered with warhammer instead of scimitar makes a brutal imagine for a dwarven warrior to me. ((I know waraxe is more effective but dang the imagine of a dwarf with a hammer and shield slamming away just brings a smile to me))
This build slightly altered with warhammer instead of scimitar makes a brutal imagine for a dwarven warrior to me.
This wasn't about image though, it was about mechanics.
Again though, I'd say builds which focus on criticals are going to be the most common. They allow more than simply dealing damage, as I said, some can realyl screw over foes even if they make the saving throw. They're not "Save or Lose", they're "Lose alot or Lose a little less".
Roleplay, not ROLLplay Kirth! </silly> :P
When I'm playing, that's exactly what I do. But when I'm dealing with rules mechanics, I put that aside for a moment. See, that's the fatal flaw requiring me to have as many houserules as Pathfinder has rules -- because all through the playtesting, any thought of mechanical analysis has been "pooh-poohed" in order to focus purely on fluff. As a result, we have a lot of pretty fluff and very few actual improvements in mechanics (the new Power Attack feat is a notable exception).
A wrench with a pink handle and a ribbon doesn't necessarily work better as a wrench, although its owner might personally prefer it to others.
BTW Brilliant Energy weapons are THE BOMB. Essentially get to use their Touch AC (some exceptions sure) so you can Power Attack till the cows come home! Has drawbacks where you can't use it on certain types, ok, but most of the time you get to got to TOWN on the critter... on costs +4 enchantment... that's all... *sigh*
No STR bonus to damage either, but I think you're still talking about a CON Fighter in this post, so it's all good. :)
That just cements my need to come down to Houston over a four-day weekend when I redeploy home. We totally have to talk mechanics.
Give me a holler when you get here. Beers are on me! Unless of course you're a marine...
GO ARMY!
That just cements my need to come down to Houston over a four-day weekend when I redeploy home. We totally have to talk mechanics.
Yay Houston!!! Make it home safe.
And on a more thread related note...
I live the new critical feats...I really do. Sad thing is, I don't think I'll ever take more than a couple for a fighter, simply because non-d6 dice seems to think average is an ok number to roll for me. Makes me look more to builds that tend to work well on average rolls. Of course, the upside of that is, while I rarely roll a 20, I rarely roll a one either =)