INT-boosting magic items and the skill ranks / skill bonuses they grant


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade Lone Wolf Development

On page 555, the Permanent bonuses section notes that once you've received an INT bonus for 24h, the bonus becomes permanent, and it alters the number of skill points granted.

The Headband of Vast Intelligence (pg 517) and the other INT-boosting headbands, after being worn for 24h, grant ranks in specified skills.

Do these rules stack? Does a character wearing a headband gain ranks in the specified skill and skill points to assign? Or was it intended that each headband specifies where the ranks it grants due to increased intelligence must be spent?

Shadow Lodge

Thats what it is sounding like.

The Exchange

Mathias Gehl wrote:

On page 555, the Permanent bonuses section notes that once you've received an INT bonus for 24h, the bonus becomes permanent, and it alters the number of skill points granted.

The Headband of Vast Intelligence (pg 517) and the other INT-boosting headbands, after being worn for 24h, grant ranks in specified skills.

Do these rules stack? Does a character wearing a headband gain ranks in the specified skill and skill points to assign? Or was it intended that each headband specifies where the ranks it grants due to increased intelligence must be spent?

To answer your question more specifically I believe in cases like the headband which gives you ranks in the specified skill. I don't have my book handy at the moment, but I would say it devotes any extra skill points to that skill. This I believe was done for simplified bookkeeping. An item that grants an intelligence bonus without designating that if grants ranks in a specific skill would I believe grant you extra skill points to spend as you see fit, just keep track of where they are spent as they would go away if the Int Boosting item were lost.

Sovereign Court

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As I recall, the whole point of Int-increasing items coming with pre-wired skill ranks was to prevent people from abusing the skill point increase by putting it on, spending all the points to increase one skill, then taking it off, putting it back on and re-spending them in another skill. It was going to be too cumbersome to write rules to prevent this, so it was just decided that items like the Headband of Intellect would come with the skill points "pre-spent" on certain skills that would be the same regardless of who put it on.


Yes, so when you find a headband it will have skill associated with it such as "Headband of Vast Intelligence +4 (Craft - Basket Weaving, Perform - Erotic Dance)". If you already have ranks in Profession - Erotic Dance then those ranks are basically wasted. Otherwise you can amaze your friends with your instant mastery of pole dancing. I think that's the exact headband Seltiel wears.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

The headband will also have the new languages you know because of your boosted Intelligence.

According to one conversation with Jason, it will also have hard-set into it a bonus spell of each level, representing the bonus spells that a Wizard would gain from a high Intelligence.


Chris Mortika wrote:

The headband will also have the new languages you know because of your boosted Intelligence.

According to one conversation with Jason, it will also have hard-set into it a bonus spell of each level, representing the bonus spells that a Wizard would gain from a high Intelligence.

wha--- wo---- WHAT ?

Mind to elaborate if this is really going to be implemented? I mean the bonus spell aren't of the same level depending on the initial INT score of the wizard. pre-headband. Impossible to specify spells without resorting to list all 9 levels bonus spell.

And languages come at the price of ranks in linguistics, INT only affects that at character creation, doesn't it?


Chris Mortika wrote:

The headband will also have the new languages you know because of your boosted Intelligence.

According to one conversation with Jason, it will also have hard-set into it a bonus spell of each level, representing the bonus spells that a Wizard would gain from a high Intelligence.

Err what? That's not in the book. Maybe when they are included in adventures they will have this stuff?.

Bonus spells come with higher int... you also get bonus spells from the CHA booster and WIS booster based on class.

Language is an interesting touch. I am starting to think these items should maybe be worth a little more than just their base value. I can certainly see some of them being more valuable than others.

I'm picturing the party exploring an osiran pyramid and they find a headband. When they put it on suddenly they can speak the language of long dead pharohs and they know ancient embalming techniques... plus Osirian pole dancing.


Dennis da Ogre wrote:
I'm picturing the party exploring an osiran pyramid and they find a headband. When they put it on suddenly they can speak the language of long dead pharohs and they know ancient embalming techniques... plus Osirian pole dancing.

Oh, add a specific list of bonus spells that is non-core and module specific. Like "Wrath of Râ" for a nice frog rain or something. Lev 4, deals d6/2Clevel Bludgeoning damage in a 20 feet radius. Ref save for half and Will save or be shaken. Full round action casting, maintained via concentration. Only one will save per target for the whole spell duration.

Seriously, beside the very cool aspect of such specific items, the entries for their description would take like 3 times the space usually taken by complex artefact. Backward compatibility went out the window also.

The bonus to skills, I see as a lesser evil for fast skill pts calculation and fast readjustment of skills if said headband is removed.

Bonus languages ? That'd be a different power, because raising your INT score doesn't increase your spoken languages. It'd be much like a very limited version of tongues.

And spells? listing 9 spells for every mental stat enhancing headband is... well... kind of cool for the unicity of the items. But adds way too much complexity for nothing much IMO.

If you want such flavor, I suppose the headband could function as of now, plus a different enchant that gives it Y spell X/day (circlet of blasting style). So increased value as per the "added properties" rule.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Jellyfulfish wrote:


wha--- wo---- WHAT ? Mind to elaborate if this is really going to be implemented?
...
And languages come at the price of ranks in linguistics, INT only affects that at character creation, doesn't it?

Taking the last question first: part of the design considerations for Pathfinder was the ability to build, say, a 10th-Level NPC without having to start her at 1st Level and march her through her entire history. And part of that ability is a transparency of stat increases. (That is to say, there should be no difference between the stat block of a 10th-Level character who began with an Intelligence of 12 and has increased it twice, versus a 10th-Level character who began with her current Intelligence of 14.

So, yes, a Headband of Smarts gives its wearer all the benefits of the intelligence boost, as if it were retroactive. Beginning characters with better intelligences get more languages. So do characters with Intelligence-boosting items.

Beginning Wizards with higher Intelligence get more bonus spells. So do characters with Intelligence-boosting items.

Those of us who DM'ed for Pathfinder Society at Gen-Con received invitations to semi-private forums where we could discuss the rules ahead of the convention. There, Jason noted everything I've said here: the Headband provides specific skill ranks, specific languages, and specific spells.

The question I posed to Jason is: wouldn't it be better if the Headband were to give Wizards bonus spell slots which the character can fill when he prepares spells? Does it really hard-wire in particular bonus spells? His decision stood.

Jellyfulfish wrote:

I mean the bonus spell aren't of the same level depending on the initial INT score of the wizard. pre-headband. Impossible to specify spells without resorting to list all 9 levels bonus spell.

That was my point.

Scarab Sages

I would love to see him post on the subject, personally. The item itself only states that it grants specific ranks to a single skill. The other things are not mentioned at all, but alluded to.

Spell slots, for example, are gained when you gain a permanent bonus to the ability (which the Headband becomes after 24 hours).

Languages I would say you never get. This is not even necessary for ease in creating high level NPCs, as all you need to know is their Intelligence at level 1. Easy enough.

As far as I understand:

  • You gain spell slots when you gain a permanent Intelligence bonus. This can be after you've worn the Headband for 24 hours, if you place a stat boost that brings your Intelligence up to a new modifier, etc.
  • You only gain languages after level 1 when you place ranks in Linguistics. You gain bonus languages at the start based off your Intelligence, but nothing alludes to gaining them retro-actively later on in your career. Arguing this for the sake of 'ease at making high level NPCs' doesn't even work well since you always know the NPCs starting statistics.
  • You gain skill points retroactively (under Permanent Ability Score gains), except in the case of the Headband, which grants full ranks to a single skill.
Unless there is something posted in the errata, the RAW supports all of the above. There is nothing about specific spells or bonus languages being locked into the Headband, nor is there anywhere that states you gain more bonus languages if your Intelligence increases. You could gain them in an indirect fashion by using your new skill points to purchase ranks in Linguistics, but that is it.

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