List of Errata in Pathfinder Core Rulebook


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Pygon wrote:

Per the online PRD Glossary:

"A creature with energy immunity never takes damage from that energy type. If a creature has fire immunity, it also has vulnerability to cold. If a creature has cold immunity, it also has vulnerability to fire. Vulnerability means the creature takes half again as much (+50%) damage as normal from that energy type, regardless of whether a saving throw is allowed or if the save is a success or failure."

No mention of being a creature of the fire subtype there.

Oh, how silly. I wonder why they made that change.

Shadow Lodge

JoelF847 wrote:
p. 562 Death Attacks - "...if the save fails, the character dies instantly." Since death effects now mostly do 10 hp/caster level, they don't cause the subject to simply die instantly. This glossary entry should be re-worded to mention that if the damage dealt is enough to bring the target to negative their constitution score, then they die instantly and suffer the effects indicated in the bullet points below it.

This should still be ok. A Death Effect, is simple one that cause you to die, regardless of damage, and also shold have some other minor ramifications, like certain forms of Resurection not being able to raise the character. Also, some spells/items/class features protect against Death Effects.

For example, Death Knell if cast on a dying creature (-1 HP or more), causes it to die instantly, regardless of how much actual HP it has left or if it stabalized. I need to double check now, to se if this has changed, but that is a good 3E example, because it doesn't actually do any damage.

Shadow Lodge

Arakhor wrote:
Pygon wrote:

Per the online PRD Glossary:

"A creature with energy immunity never takes damage from that energy type. If a creature has fire immunity, it also has vulnerability to cold. If a creature has cold immunity, it also has vulnerability to fire. Vulnerability means the creature takes half again as much (+50%) damage as normal from that energy type, regardless of whether a saving throw is allowed or if the save is a success or failure."

No mention of being a creature of the fire subtype there.

Oh, how silly. I wonder why they made that change.

Maybe because they are cutting down the Immunities, but want it to be straight forward. In 3E, it started getting rediculous after MM2. There were monsters that where competely on fire, Healed or Buffed by Cold Spells and things like that, which could really annoy casters.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Beckett wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:
p. 562 Death Attacks - "...if the save fails, the character dies instantly." Since death effects now mostly do 10 hp/caster level, they don't cause the subject to simply die instantly. This glossary entry should be re-worded to mention that if the damage dealt is enough to bring the target to negative their constitution score, then they die instantly and suffer the effects indicated in the bullet points below it.

This should still be ok. A Death Effect, is simple one that cause you to die, regardless of damage, and also shold have some other minor ramifications, like certain forms of Resurection not being able to raise the character. Also, some spells/items/class features protect against Death Effects.

For example, Death Knell if cast on a dying creature (-1 HP or more), causes it to die instantly, regardless of how much actual HP it has left or if it stabalized. I need to double check now, to se if this has changed, but that is a good 3E example, because it doesn't actually do any damage.

My point is that the glossary definition states that death effects all are save or die instantly, when that is no longer true. Now you can fail your save, take the 10 hp/caster level, and not die if you have enough hit points. Some death effects are still save or die, such as death knell, and I think impolsion, but most aren't anymore.

Shadow Lodge

I'll need to check, but I think what this actually means is those spells are no longer Death Effects rather than the definition changing.


"To cast a spell with a somatic (S) component, you must gesture freely with at least one hand. You can't cast a spell of this type while bound, grappling, or with both your hands full or occupied."

Although correct in 3.5, all other rules involving grappling seem to contradict this. Most notably:

"Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that requires only one hand to perform, such as cast a spell..."

I think that the first quote should read "bound, pinned, or with..."

If true, a particularly insidious error that seems to nullify an intended rule change.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

mln84 wrote:
Simple typo: on P83, under Empathic Link- currently reads "The master can communicate emphatically with the familiar, ..." instead of empathically.

I am totally going to enforce the rules as written here. "No... your familiar didn't understand. Try gesticulating wildly?"

mln84 wrote:
(Or maybe "telepathically" would be a better word choice, since spellcheck is saying that "empathically" is not a word.)

Spellcheck is wrong. It's a legitimate formation. At least mine doesn't say "empathicly" is but "empathically" isn't, as I've found with some words, not that I can remember which.

(However, my spellcheck says spellcheck is not a word. Ha!)

The Exchange

tejón wrote:


mln84 wrote:
(Or maybe "telepathically" would be a better word choice, since spellcheck is saying that "empathically" is not a word.)

Spellcheck is wrong. It's a legitimate formation. At least mine doesn't say "empathicly" is but "empathically" isn't, as I've found with some words, not that I can remember which.

Yep.

Empathetically or empathically are correct and the distinction from telepathically is important as it a communication conveying only emotional intent, not thoughts or words. This is important for the mage lucky enough to have a wolf familiar and therefore unlucky enough to always get the response 'Kinda hungry...' when querying the familiar in this way.


Page 382 of the core rules:

"Dragon Bite (Ex): At 2nd level, whenever the dragon
disciple uses his bloodline to grow claws, he also gains
a bite attack. This natural attack is made at the dragon
disciple’s full base attack bonus. The dragon disciple
adds 1–1/2 times his Strength modifier on damage
rolls made with his bite. Upon reaching 6th level,
this bite also deals 1d6 points of energy damage. The
type of damage dealt is determined by the dragon
disciple’s bloodline"

It does not indicate what damage die the bite is. D4? D6? In addition since it doesn't indicate if this is a primary attack or secondary, and that it happens at full base attack bonus does that mean all 3 attacks are considered primary and that none occur at a -5 penalty? How does the bite interact with power attack for instance, since it gets 1 1/2 strength bonus, but it is not indicated whether or not it is a primary attack?


Item descriptions including falchion and scimitar are missing.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

There are some inconsistencies between the Spell Giant Form I and Giant Form II in the PRD (and maybe the actual book)

I've bolded the inconsistencies below

Quote:

Giant Form I

When you cast this spell you can assume the form of any Large humanoid creature of the giant subtype. Once you assume your new form, you gain the following abilities: a +6 size bonus to Strength, a –2 penalty to Dexterity, a +4 size bonus to Constitution, a +4 natural armor bonus, and low-light vision. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: darkvision 60 feet, rend (2d6 damage), regeneration 5, rock catching, and rock throwing (range 60 feet, 2d6 damage). If the creature has immunity or resistance to any elements, you gain resistance 20 to those elements. If the creature has vulnerability to an element, you gain that vulnerability.

Quote:

Giant Form II

This spell functions as giant form I except that it also allows you to assume the form of any Huge creature of the giant type. You gain the following abilities: a +8 size bonus to Strength, a –2 penalty to Dexterity, a +6 size bonus to Constitution, a +6 natural armor bonus, low-light vision, and a +10 foot enhancement bonus to your speed. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, rend (2d8 damage), regeneration 5, rock catching, and rock throwing (range 120 feet, 2d10 damage). If the creature has immunity or resistance to one element, you gain that immunity or resistance. If the creature has vulnerability to an element, you gain that vulnerability.

Some clarification if the highlighted differences between the spells are intended would be appreciated.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the errata.

There are some inconsistencies between Shadow Evocation and Greater Shadow evocation in the PRD, and possibly the book as well.

I've bolded the inconsistencies below

Quote:

Shadow Evocation

You tap energy from the Plane of Shadow to cast a quasi-real, illusory version of a sorcerer or wizard evocation spell of 4th level or lower. Spells that deal damage have normal effects unless an affected creature succeeds on a Will save. Each disbelieving creature takes only one-fifth damage from the attack. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur. If recognized as a shadow evocation, a damaging spell deals only one-fifth (20%) damage. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save (or spell resistance) that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow evocation's level (5th) rather than the spell's normal level.

Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they have no effect.

Objects automatically succeed on their Will saves against this spell.

Quote:

Greater Shadow Evocation

This spell functions like shadow evocation, except that it enables you to create partially real, illusory versions of sorcerer or wizard evocation spells of 7th level or lower. If recognized as a greater shadow evocation, a damaging spell deals only three-fifths (60%) damage.

The bolded text appears to be missing from Greater Shadow Evocation, indicating that the 20% chance is the same for both spells.


Many important weapon and item descriptions are missing!

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

The Grandfather wrote:
Many important weapon and item descriptions are missing!

OH GOD I JUST NOTICED THAT! James or Jason can we get errata for the 10' pole? I totally don't understand, is it some kind of cheddar or more like a kitten?


Error #1:
Page 125
Feats - Greater Shield Focus

Prerequisites include BAB +1 and 8th-level Fighter.

I suspect the inclusion of BAB +1 is an error. All other fighter feats don't have a BAB requirement and the BAB requirement of this would be redundant due to an 8th level fighter's BAB which would be +8.

Error #2:
Page 126
Feats - Greater Weapon Focus

Prerequisites include BAB +1 and 8th-level Fighter.

Same reason as above.

Error #3:
Page 131
Feats - Penetrating Strike

Prerequisites include BAB +1 and 12th-level Fighter.

Same reason as above.


Please excuse me if this has already been posted or explained, but on page 65 in the section on Combat Style it speaks of being able to acquire "Greater Two Weapon Fighting" at level 10. However, the feat section has the prerequisite for "Greater Two Weapon Fighting" as requiring a BAB of +11. In thinking about this, a BAB of +10 (which for the Ranger is level 10) only allows two attacks as Full-Round actions. Does it seem right that a Ranger would be allowed to get three attacks with his off-hand and two attacks with his Primary hand?

Just my 2 cp.


Kiratlan wrote:

Please excuse me if this has already been posted or explained, but on page 65 in the section on Combat Style it speaks of being able to acquire "Greater Two Weapon Fighting" at level 10. However, the feat section has the prerequisite for "Greater Two Weapon Fighting" as requiring a BAB of +11. In thinking about this, a BAB of +10 (which for the Ranger is level 10) only allows two attacks as Full-Round actions. Does it seem right that a Ranger would be allowed to get three attacks with his off-hand and two attacks with his Primary hand?

Just my 2 cp.

I never noticed that. I think James is currently on the boards browsing and he may answer that if you post it in the rules section.

I think Sean was here earlier, but I dont know if he is still around.


Is there a discrepancy in the description of Shillelagh between the spell list and the listing of spells or am I missing something and suffering from caffine withdrawal? (1d10 in brief description vs increase size by 2 categories in spell text?)

Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs wrote:
The concept of elves not sleeping is, in fact, a Forgotten Realms campaign-specific thing, one that's sort of virally spread to other campaigns.

Actually, it originates with Tolkien... and was in both the v3 and v3.5 PHBs. I think I remember it cropping up in earlier rules as well, but I haven't dug them out of storage to check.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
CBDunkerson wrote:
I think I remember it cropping up in earlier rules as well, but I haven't dug them out of storage to check.

2E Complete Book of Elves is the first time I remember seeing it.


The matter of Elves trancing/meditating not sleeping is continued in "Elves of Golarion" on pg 5. Just thought I would mention this. It may not be pertinent to the discussion.

Just my 2 cp.

Liberty's Edge

In another thread there is debate about whether Elves are still intended to be able to spot secret doors when passing near them. This ability has been removed from the list of racial traits in the front of the book, but is still mentioned on pages 404 (as an example of a type of die roll the GM should make secretly) and 414 (in the writeup on secret doors).

Also, as mentioned earlier in this thread there are some inconsistencies with the Perception modifiers for locating invisible creatures. On page 563 moving at half speed gives a -5 modifier, moving at full speed -10, running/charging -20, and not moving at all -40. Looking at the three modifiers for moving it would seem like these are meant to be decreases to the Perception DC... the faster the invisible creature is moving the easier they are to detect. Unfortunately, that goes out the window with the -40 for NOT moving... a motionless invisible creature is EASIER to detect than one which is charging? Something is clearly askew.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required.

On page 183 note 4 indicates that Charge and Withdraw can be performed as two standard actions if the character's movement is restricted. However, on page 186 both are listed as types of actions which CAN'T be split up this way. This was copied over from v3.5, which introduced the contradiction when trying to simplify the 'partial action' system from version 3.


Avalanches and Cave-Ins have... problems

Spoiler:
Though the Avalanche section details the damage suffered in the bury zone/slide zone, IT DOESN'T TELL YOU HOW/IF YOU CAN GET OUT. That info appears in the Cave-In section, which otherwise uses similar rules, but I'm not sure if I should use the DCs/rules from Cave-Ins explicitly, or adjust the DCs, given the Avalanche is SNOW not rock/rubble...???

The final paragraph "To determine the precise location of characters in the path of an avalanche, roll 1d6 × 20; the result is the number of feet from the center of the path taken by the bury zone to the center of the party's location. Avalanches of snow and ice advance at a speed of 500 feet per round, while rock and soil avalanches travel at a speed of 250 feet per round." really would be MUCH more helpful if it was SPLIT and introduced parallel with the rules it's relevant to:
The speed should be mentioned during the first part detailing when you perceive the avalanche (the speed being relevant to how many chances you have to make a Perception check before the Avalanche reaches the "you are automatically aware at half original distance" point).
The part determining what area of the Avalanche you end up in should probably be used as the INTRODUCTION to the section detailing the EFFECTS of being in those different sections (bury zone/slide zone). (i.e. Roll XYZ to determine if you end up in Zone A or Zone B. Zone A does XYZ damage and you are buried. Zone B does XYZ damage and if you fail your Save you are buried. Buried characters suffer XYZ damage and may escape only by XYZ or if they are rescued by allies who XYZ.)

Cave Ins seems to contain all the rules that are missing from the Avalance section re: digging yourself/friends out, though the specific numbers on damage, time, and DCs seem plausible to be different in snow vs. rubble.
It's use of the term "slide zone" seems more applicable to Avalanches than Cave Ins themselves...
Either a neutral universal term or a more-Cave-In-specific term should be adopted.

If you want to save space, there NEEDS to be at least a section reference, if not page reference, to the necessary rules from the rules section (Avalanche/Cave-In) that DOESN'T contain all necessary rules. As is, I have to make a leap of faith that the Cave-In rules for digging out are really MEANT to apply to Avalanches (and many people might not even think of it, unless they're Environmental Rules Fanatics).

Monks: The phrase "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed" when detailing Unarmed Strike seems problematic, if well intended. If there is "no such thing" as an off-hand attack for Monks, how do they use their Class Ability (the virtual 2WF chain), which is PREDICATED on off-hand attacks?
The sentence seems un-necessary: Your intent is 100% conveyed by the part granting full STR bonus to off-hand attacks and allowing attacks with any body part. After all, the idea is not that Monks don't have what other people do (off-hand attacks), but that their "off-hand attacks" (which DO necessarily exist) aren't subject to the LIMITATIONS others are (half STR damage, limited to 2 hands).


Paladins:

Spoiler:
The line about their Companion "Bonded mounts have an Intelligence of at least 6." is unclear.
It doesn't seem like a REQUIREMENT to pick INT 6+ Companions (it doesn't say they MUST have a 6 INT, and the examples of Horses/Ponies definitely don't have 6 INT), so it would seem to be a bonus of some kind - but what kind? And how much of a bonus? Is it a 'fixed' bonus, say +4 or +5? Or is it whatever is enough to bring their base INT up to 6? How does it interact with level-based stat bumps? INT-boosting magic? A basic bit detailing what kind of bonus it is (enough to adjudicate these types of details) is all that's needed here.

Aura of Justice: I mentioned this in the original "Smite is Overpowered" thread, but I'm not completely certain about the intent with this ability. As written, it doesn't have the same "only functions while Paladin is conscious" limitation as the other Paladin Auras, and in fact it works radically different than, say, Aura of Faith or Resolve.
Unlike those, which are basically AoE buffs, Aura of Justice as written is a one round duration effect. It's recipients (those who "use" Smite Evil in that 1 round - "use" being a Swift Action to activate Smite, by the RAW?) each have their OWN independent Smite effect, irrespective of whether they step further away from the Paladin, or even stay on the same PLANE as the Paladin, much less if the Paladin dies before 1 minute is over. Further, it would seem by the RAW that each "recipient" is free to choose a DIFFERENT Smite target, which I'm also not sure is the intent behind the ability.
In that thread, I mentioned how making Aura of Justice work like an AoE buff like the other Paladin Auras (with same "while Paladin is conscious" requirement), and also limit it to a shared/common Smite Target, would be a very reasonable clarification, while maintaining the heroic flavor and substance. (in other words, give the Aura itself a 1 minute duration and all allies within 10' radius apply the Paladins' active Smite Bonus to their attacks vs. the already designated Smite Target. Though if the Paladin subsequently Smites multiple Targets, it could easily be just as powerful, if it's not explicitly limited to 1 existing Smite Target when Aura of Justice is activated.)

Feats:

Spoiler:
Vital Strike:
"do not multiply damage bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), or precision-based damage (such as sneak attack). This bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit (although other damage bonuses are multiplied normally)."
I think this would be clearer if EXAMPLES of which damage bonuses ARE multiplied were provided. (Weapon Spec?)
The example of flaming being EXCLUDED is somewhat ambiguous as to whether straight Weapon Enhancement bonuses would or wouldn't be multiplied - after all, they are not a Weapon ABILITY, but are just a bonus...???
Also, two of the "excluded" types are bonus damage DICE, which are otherwise distinct from bonus damage: I think you could change the wording to blanket exclude bonus damage DICE (covering both flaming and sneak attack) as well as precision damage, which then leaves more room to expound on examples of what bonuses ARE multiplied. Basically, I think some editing here would give players a clearer picture of the Feat's usage on first reading it, and not leave it to DMs to answer questions like these.

Elemental Channel:
Is Healing or Harming a CHOICE per usage, or linked to the user's Postive/Negative Energy affinity? It also seems reasonable that you could Turn Elementals if you have the Turning Feat, but that doesn't appear to be supported by the RAW...???

Extra Channel:
I don't think you should mention Paladins and certainly not "Channel POSITIVE Energy", since the ability is really open to anybody who can Channel Energy as a Class Feature (or Racial Ability).
I also think the way you explicitly "reverse derive" the bonus Channels to equal "4 Lay on Hands usages, but only usable for Channel Energy" is counter-productive in that it encourages players to think about the ability in the LEAST direct, MOST complicated way: Simply saying it grants "2 bonus Channel Energy uses" is all that's needed, and much simpler to write on a character sheet than "+4 Lay on Hands, but only for Channel Energy (+2 Channels)". As well, it's ONLY relevant to Paladins, when for all we know there could be some future Divine Barbarian PrC who can "power" Channel Energy or Lay on Hands thru Rage Rounds. Save some space here, and put it to use elsewhere where it'd be more beneficial.

Weapon Spec:
Do you do +2 damage on ALL Grapple attacks, or only the "damage" option?
Likewise, listing "Grapple" separately from "Unarmed" seems slightly wierd... Is Weapon Spec:Trip likewise available independent of the weapon used to Trip? IMHO, the "Grapple" should not be an option for Weapon Spec or Focus, only specific weapons (incl. natural/ unarmed strike).

Size Modifier Table:
Even though it has PLENTY of empty space, the Table for Size Modifier doesn't mention WHAT the modifier applies to (i.e. Attacks and AC). Likewise, Maneuver Size Modifier (which is just the reverse, obviously) doesn't show up on the table, and only is described in the prose of the Maneuver section several pages away.
If all these areas affected by Size were actually included in the Table, it would be more helpful as a "one stop shopping center" for applying adjustments for different-Sized characters, as well as being less easily overlooked (compared to the Maneuver Size Mod being buried in the Maneuver section). Encumbrance and Weight multipliers should probably be included on such a Table as well, though that might need more space.

Falling Rules:
The situation of a CREATURE (rather than an inanimate object) falling on another creature(s) seems common enough that it should be mentioned. I would GUESS the rules for Falling Objects would be applicable, except that the base damage (before Save, if unintentional fall) should be based off the rules for CHARACTERS falling rather than the object table (for consistency in damage for faller vs. target). Treating falling on top of a character as "soft terrain" to the character falling (reducing damage by 1 dice) seems a reasonable clarification to include. If a character is INTENTIONALLY "falling" on another character (making a Ranged Touch Attack) it seems reasonable that they should suffer less damage than they would if falling on the ground (and less than the target of their "attack"): Taking half damage, like "targets" of un-planned falls do with a successful Reflex Save seems a reasonable approach (maybe they should have to make the Save themselves if they want to reduce their damage?)


re: Vital Strike,
looking into it I'm getting a more confused picture,
because Jason's posts are saying "only base weapon damage" is multiplied, yet the Feat itself says that besides the excluded categories [STR, precision, additional abilities [bonus dice?]] "other damage bonuses are multiplied" which is a pretty big discrepancy...

anyway, I thought over this after my last post, and I thought the easiest/clearest way to treat it (based off current Feat definition, not 'only base wpn damage' post) is just say it works like Critical Hits and all other "damage multipliers" except it excludes STR & precision damage. That also opens the door to elegantly segue into a brief explanation of how Vital Strike interacts with a Confirmed Crit (since VS excludes STR & Precision Damage, it isn't as simple a combination as it would be otherwise)

also: is Precision Damage defined anywhere? I only see it mentioned in passing (re: Sneak Attack) ...???
I also though Ranger Favored Enemy is Precision Damage, but it isn't defined as such.
Is Weapon Spec precision? /?confuuusioonnn....?/

Paizo Employee Creative Director

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required.

Precision damage is, alas, not defined as a term. It's more a descriptive element, which is probably not the best way to handle things in game. But basically, precision damage is limited to sneak attacks and the duelist's extra damage, as far as I can tell.


Yeah, phrases that are used like they are "game terms" (i.e. "do not multiply... precision-based damage (such as sneak attack)") but actually AREN'T is pretty confusing in D&D's context.
The whole "(Standard) Attack Action" issue is similar, though from the reverse angle.

That said, if you have room, I could see throwing Precision in the Glossary with a minimum of fluff, mention it includes SA and Duelist bonus and describe how it isn't multiplied on Crits. Any further (non-Core) sources of Precision Damage would need to be explicitly defined as Precision Damage (not by automatically applying a generic criteria).


OH GOD I JUST NOTICED THAT! James or Jason can we get errata for the 10' pole? I totally don't understand, is it some kind of cheddar or more like a kitten?

I'm not sure what your point is with the sarcasm, but Grandfather and Diego Winterborg (above) have very valid points.

If you're saying that the weapon descriptions should be obvious, then explain why, in your own words, the description for the shortsword is included, yet the greatclub and greataxe are not.

If your argument is that the information is already in past products of another system, your argument is equally pointless because a considerable amount of the PFRPG is detailed in past products of another system.

If you were trying to be funny, I think you missed the mark.

Be constructive, or allow those offering valid input to do so without unnecessary criticism.

Diego Winterborg and Grandfather, I'm with you guys. All the weapons listed in the tables should be included in the descriptions.

Have a great game!

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

kindredspirit wrote:
If you were trying to be funny, I think you missed the mark.

I'm pretty sure Grandfather was speaking tongue-in-cheek as well. If a weapon follows all the normal rules for weapons, why does there need to be any extra description? If you don't know what a sickle looks like, try Wikipedia. I'm not saying descriptions have no place in a rules document (I rather miss the pseudo-encyclopedic nature of a lot of 1st and 2nd edition books), but take a quick look at the page count. Fluff can be generated by the DM and players, so it's proper for it to be cut first.


He was sarcastic because more or less the SAME EXACT ISSUE has been brought up on multiple occasions.

You might take a look at your 3.5 books. The Falchion and Scimitar are not described there either:
Probably 15-20% of the weapons are not given descriptions, and likewise for many non-weapon items.
Pathfinder Core Rule is aiming to take the place of the PHB and DMG. If something wasn't felt to be problematic or need improvement in 3.5, it probably looks pretty much the same in Pathfinder.
This is basically one of those cases.

Paizo staff has already commented on this issue.
Suffice it to say this isn't an oversight, and such descriptions aren't likely to make it into the Core Rules in the forseeable future. Adding descriptions for every item would probably have taken AT LEAST 2-3 extra pages, which I think most people involved in the play-test (and staff at Paizo) would feel is space better used for rules clarifications. At least there's things like Wikipedia now for when you'd really like to know what the heck a Falchion is. :-)

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

In the list of AC boni appliable to Combat Maneuver Defense the luck bonus is not listed.

Was this intentional?


One thing on Two Weapon Defense:
It isn't 100% clear to me if you can add a Shield Enhancement to the weapon now - Having a Shield Bonus seems the implicit requirement to be considered a Shield/ accept Shield Enhancements (Shields with Weapon Enhancents also count as weapons). Obviously only characters with the Feat would be able to take advantage of a Shield-Enhanced weapon (just like only creatures w/ Natural Weapons can take advantage of an Amulet of Magic Fang). I presume Shield Bashes wouldn't work.

It seems simple to either confirm/exclude this option.
In my eyes, the Feat isn't worthwhile to take UNLESS Shield Enhancements are allowed, and given the 2WF+Shield Feat tree is certainly effective, having a similar equivalent option that's viable for dual-weapon-wielders seems 100% reasonable.


Laughing Touch ability is not listed as mind affecting. I don't think zombie laugh so I will assume it was an error.

Valerette deserves the credit for this if it was an error.


I am not sure if this has been touched on before in this thread or another errata thread, I haven't seen it.

My question is concerning the Shadowdancer's HiPS ability vs. the Assassin's. The abilities used to read the same in 3.5 and now they don't. I am not sure if this is a mistake or intentional.

Assassin says it can use stealth as long as it is within 10' of some sort of shadow.

Shadowdancer says it can use stealth as long as it is within 10' of an area of dim light.

Are these intentionally different now? I know many of the HiPS(EX) versions were different but I thought all versions of the (SU) ability were the same in 3.5, at least I believe this is true for the Assassin and Shadowdancer.

So, which way is correct if there was in fact an error?
Or are they worded precisely the way they were meant to be?


Reposting this from another thread...
Basically the intent of Vital Strike IS decipherable,
but the wording could be cleared up alot to take out the stuff 'distracting' readers from the intended functioning (which itself is very simple).

Vital Strike (Bolding what's relevant, and what messed me up)
Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together, but do not multiply damage bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), or precision-based damage (such as sneak attack). This bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit (although other damage bonuses are multiplied normally).

I think the problem is that after saying damage dice is multiplied, it then says DON'T multiply damage bonuses from specific areas. The last sentence is JUST talking about criticals working normally, but combined with the SPECIFIC prohibition of SPECIFIC bonuses, I got the impression it was still talking about Vital Strike's OWN damage multiplication.

The current wording's EXAMPLES of bonuses are not presented as "examples" as they are intended: "but do not multiply damage bonus from Strength, weapon abilities [such as], or Sneak Attack [such as]" appears to be an exhaustive list (i.e. don't multiply STR, Wpn Abilities, or Precision). Changing the phrase to read "but do not multiply ANY damage bonuses [or bonus damage dice], SUCH AS [the given examples]" removes the room for confusion by clearly saying ALL bonuses aren't multiplied and clearly indicating the examples are indeed examples (and not exhaustive). The crux is that starting that whole clause with "but" indicates the specific, limited list of excluded Bonuses ACTUALLY IS IMPORTANT, rather than just the example it is meant to be.

As-is, the "intended reading" (that Jason has explained) is valid because the Feat only positively directs you to multiply "the damage dice". That's great, but it means anyone relying on the follow-up text to understand it can be easily misled, since the follow-up text itself CAN'T be relied upon to convey the crucial part - When I'm given a more-in-depth explanation, I tend to expect that I'm actually able to rely upon that.

I would change it to something like: (changes bold)
Benefit: When you use the Standard Attack Action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together, but do not multiply ANY damage bonuses or bonus damage dice SUCH AS from Strength, weapon abilities (like flaming), or precision-based damage (like sneak attack). This bonus damage from Vital Strike is not multiplied on a critical hit.

I also changed the final sentence to be simpler and more to the point - calling out damage bonuses (besides VS) being multiplied normally on Crits is again slightly confusing because Crits multiply damage bonuses AND weapon damage - This is shorter & 100% clear.

For the core phrase of the Feat, I changed it to reference WEAPON damage dice multiplication, which likewise seems 100% clearer - I've seen that this is the intended meaning (i.e. no Vital Striking Touch Spell Damage), and phrasing it this way is shorter and clearer than adding another clause to exclude Touch Spell damage from the multiplied "damage dice" that isn't a Weapon Ability or Precision.

Standard Attack Action seems to be the commonly used & less mis-interpretable phrase than Attack Action.


Wind Stance Table Summary
"if you move" should be "if you DOUBLE Move or Withdraw"

Necro School:
Is Command/Turn Undead INTENDED to be linked to Alignment, like it is for Clerics?
Per RAW it's not, and is a free choice... I could see this going either way, just wanted to confirm.
(i.e. EMPHASIZING difference between White/Black Necro, or allow identical abilities)


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I couldn't find this in this thread, so I'm adding it.

Pg. 123 Endurance should apply to heavy armor, not just light and medium armor. The statements made make no sense, particularly when taken in light of the rule on pg. 151. Specifically, the statement in the feat is not consistent with itself. This same flaw existed in the previous revisions of the game, so perhaps I'm the only one that thinks it's an error.

pg. 123 wrote:

You may sleep in light or medium armor without becoming fatigued.

Normal: A character without this feat who sleeps in medium or heavier armor is fatigued the next day.
pg. 151 wrote:
Sleeping in Armor: A character who sleeps in medium or heavy armor is automatically fatigued the next day. He takes a –2 penalty on Strength and Dexterity and can’t charge or run. Sleeping in light armor does not cause fatigue.

Conversely, perhaps it is intentionally poorly written. By implying that those who take the feat are getting something that they would have gotten anyway, the ability to sleep in light armor without taking penalties.


blu4lyf wrote:

I couldn't find this in this thread, so I'm adding it.

Pg. 123 Endurance should apply to heavy armor, not just light and medium armor. ... snip... .

That's actually not an error, as I understand the meaning. The intent is that sleeping in Heavy armor still causes the character to be Fatigued. Endurance adds only Medium armor to the category of "does not cause Fatigue" for the possessor. So, the possessor can sleep in Light armor (which he could before) or Medium armor(which he could NOT before) without being Fatigued.


Mark Greene wrote:


That's actually not an error, as I understand the meaning. The intent is that sleeping in Heavy armor still causes the character to be Fatigued. Endurance adds only Medium armor to the category of "does not cause Fatigue" for the possessor. So, the possessor can sleep in Light armor (which he could before) or Medium armor(which he could NOT before) without being Fatigued.

Exactly, the feat is unchanged from his 3.5 version. Sleeping in Heavy Armor stil leaves you fatigued, but Medium Armor becomes available.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My point is, that I've always found this feat inconsistent. First, why mention in the feat that "You may sleep in light..." armor without becoming fatigued, when you wouldn't become fatigued anyway. If you normally wear light armor, then this feat does not change anything for you in that regard. I have always seen this as a problem, in all previous revisions of d20.

Just because that's the way it was in previous revisions, still doesn't mean it was right.


@blu: agreed. that's one I wanted to mention here, but somehow forgot.
phrasing it like "may sleep in medium as well as light armor without getting fatigued" would give just enough 'common English' cues to prevent any confusion on the part of the reader. Sure, the 3.5 wording was not technically false, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I don't recall seeing this mentioned, but if I missed it, I apologize for duplicating one..

In the 3.5 rules, Lesser Restoration had a casting time of "3 rounds". Restoration "inherited" that and Greater Restoration had a casting time of "10 minutes".

On p.335 of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook, Restoration lists "1 minute" as the casting time. Lesser Restoration still lists "3 rounds", and Greater Restoration refers to Lesser Restoration, inheriting the same "3 rounds".


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the errata.

Page 73
Abyssal Bloodline - Claws:
I suspect after the very last paragraph it should indicate that the rounds do not need to be consecutive.

Page 75
Draconic Bloodline - Claws:
I suspect after the very last paragraph it should indicate that the rounds do not need to be consecutive.


Major Errata!
P. 505
Someone seems to have left the Candle of Invocation in the game! Already arguements about it are mushrooming on other threads, and tempers fraying.

Okay, more seriously:

Candle of Invocation wrote:

...Except in special cases (see below), a candle burns for 4 hours. It is possible to extinguish the candle simply by blowing it out, so users often place it in a lantern to protect it from drafts and the like. Doing this doesn't interfere with its magical properties.

In addition, burning a candle also allows the owner to cast a gate spell, the respondent being of the same alignment as the candle, but the taper is immediately consumed in the process.
CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, gate, creator must be same alignment as candle created; Cost 4,200 gp

Query:

So a character can burn the candle for three hours, fifty-nine minutes, fifty four seconds, for other effects, and then in the last possible round of use still get the full gate effect? The text of the candle does not seem to indicate that a character cannot.

Query:
The price given for constructing the item is only 4,200 GP, which seems to be at odds with what a gate spell does, as a gate operating in 'call outsider' mode requires an additional 10,000 GP worth of incense, etc to use. Can a 4,200 GP construction cost Candle of Invocation be used to duplicate the 'call outsider' mode of gate, is it impossible to use it for this function, or is an additional 10,000 GP of incense, etc required if the candle is to be used to duplicate this mode of gate?

Query:
A character doesn't have to be a cleric, match the alignment of the candle, be a divine caster generally, or even have to make a Use Magic Device check to use the Candle to cast a gate spell?

With regard to gate, by the way:
P. 288

Gate wrote:

...If you choose to call a kind of creature instead of a known individual, you may call either a single creature or several creatures. In either case, their total HD cannot exceed twice your caster level. In the case of a single creature, you can control it if its HD does not exceed your caster level. A creature with more HD than your caster level can't be controlled. Deities and unique beings cannot be controlled in any event. An uncontrolled being acts as it pleases, making the calling of such creatures rather dangerous. An uncontrolled being may return to its home plane at any time.

If you choose to exact a longer or more involved form of service from a called creature, you must offer some fair trade in return for that service...

Some of the arguements going on on the boards at present feature the line of reasoning that: 'Wish is a spell-like ability of an efreeti, so that doesn't count as an involved form of service, so you can gate an efreeti and as long you have the caster level to deal with it, you can compel it to give you wishes without any further payment/cost to yourself'.

I would recommend clarification of the gate spell (or of summmoning/calling generally) if the intention is that you should not be able to force gate called creatures to use spell-like abilities that mimic high level spells on you behalf, 'free of further charge'.


Spring Attack.
It doesn't specify the action you have to take to use the feat. I assume it is a full-round action, as in Shot on the Run, but some other think it is an Attack Action + a Move Action (it was this way in 3.5). This is important as you could apply Vital Strike in the second case.


Combat Maneuvers.

The text for the combat maneuvers does not specify which of these maneuvers can be performed using a weapon. This is important because you would add feats as Weapon Focus or the weapon's enhancement bonus to your CMB.

Though in some maneuvers it's obvious you don't use a weapon (Overrun), some others are not clear. Examples:
- Bull Rush with a shield or natural armor (kick). In the Shield Slam feat you are using your weapon focus etc. as a bonus to the Bull Rush.
- Trip. Can you trip with any weapon? The Trip ability in the Equipment (Weapons) section seems to point that you can only trip with those weapons, but it is not clear. What about an unarmed attack? Do you apply any bonuses you have to those attacks?

It has been argued by some people that you can use weapons for maneuvers that replace an attack, not for those that are a different action. This is not clear, as in Bull Rush you can replace the attack in a charge.

Sunder - It is written it replaces an attack only in the case of an standard attack. I don't know if this is an error or it is just this way.

Overrun -
"As a standard action, taken during your move or as part of a charge"
Does it replace the melee attack in the charge action, as in Bull Rush?

"When you attempt to overrun a target, it can choose to avoid you, allowing you to pass through its square without requiring an attack" This means that you don't need to take the overrun standard action, thus allowing an attack action later, or does it mean that you just don't have to roll the attack? If it is the former case, you could move through several spaces filled with enemies, provided all of them avoid you.
Is Overrun a different action than moving for Attacks of Opportunity (can your foe make two AoO for leaving your space next to him and for the maneuver).

Grappling - It is confusing the use of "grappled" and "grappling". The section "If you are grappled" should be changed to "If you are not the one who started the grapple", unless the one who started it is allowed to cast somatic spells (for ex. with a swift action). This is further confusing when we look at the Concentration section, where it talk about "grappling or pinned". I think a clearer wording is needed, where the use of the term "grappled" is consistant.


Page 73
This is more of a typo than an error...
Celestial Bloodline - Conviction:
The last 2 sentences describing the benefits both start with "Finally"


3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

Full-Attack
PRD: "Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack: After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks."
The text does not explain which action is the first attack if you chose to take the move action.
If it is still part of a full-attack, you could use Manyshot, as the feat does not require to take all your attacks.
If it is an Attack Action, you could apply Vital Strike. Notice that you could decide, if you fail your first attack, to continue with the rest of your attacks; and if you hit, to apply Vital Strike.

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