Invisibility & "Immunity to Illusion Spells"

[Caelinae]

Our group finally has finished book #3 of the Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path and will be heading into Book #4 in a month (after all vacation is over) with the new pathfinder rulebook in hand and characters rebuilt, etc.

I was reading ahead and was stuck by something mentioned in the Taiga Giant's stat block on page 84. After summoning spirits a Taiga Giant is immune to illusion spells. Invisibility is an illusion spell so why would they need to "See Invisible" on top of that?

Thanks for your time.

[stardust]

This is not an official answer, but I would say that illusions are different from invisibility spells. A conjured illusion is a figment that conditions the senses to help the mind believe that something is present, while an invisibility spell does the exact opposite. It tries to condition the senses to help the mind believe that nothing is present.

So, there's a philosophical difference, even if there's not a game-mechanical difference.

[Tilquinith]

You could also go the route that invisibility spells may work in such a way as that they bend light to flow around the subject of the spell. Kind of like the way some stage magicians cause things to disappear through the clever use of mirrors.

[Quandary]

The Illusion School includes the following sub-designations (and others):

Figment
A figment spell creates a false sensation.

Glamer
A glamer spell changes a subject’s sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear.

So, yeah, it should be immune to Invisibility.
EDIT: if it is actually immune to all Illusion spells.

[Dennis da Ogre]

Invisibility is a glamer, not a mind effecting spell. The Giant is immune to any illusions that target it directly (Phantasmal killer, Shadow Conjuration, or most anything that spell resistance works on).

[hogarth]

Usually, `immunity to X spells` means that it has effectively unbeatable spell resistance vs. those spells. Invisibility doesn`t allow SR to defeat it, so immunity to illusions wouldn`t defeat it (assuming you use that logic).

See http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellImmunity for a citation.

[lordzack]

Tilquinith wrote:

You could also go the route that invisibility spells may work in such a way as that they bend light to flow around the subject of the spell. Kind of like the way some stage magicians cause things to disappear through the clever use of mirrors.

That would probably be an evocation spell rather than an illusion spell though.

[Morgen]

There was a 4 page Dragon article back in the day discussing the different types of illusion spells in the game. You'd have to decide how you feel illusions should work. The whole mental clouding versus light bending thing paradox of what really breaks down into a "Well it's magic so it works" kind of thing.

Being Immune to All Illusions to me seems like it wouldn't cover Invisibility. Immunity usually only applies to effects that specifically target the creature with the Immunity. Plus invisibility doesn't allow any kind of saving throw for people who see it, just for people who don't want to be made invisible. Just looking at someone whose invisible doesn't net you a will save for free, even if you know someone is invisible in front of you. No disbelief save. Plus a Golem can't see through invisibility, and their immune to way more then illusion magic.

Though there are illusions that don't target something that it'd make sense it could see through too with such an ability. Then you can also look at See Invisibility. A 2nd level divination spell trumps a 3rd level illusion spell.

Maybe it should just work like that for it, no being invisible from it. Perhaps it just can't process the details of the magic for it to be fooled by whatever trick invisibility pulls.

[David Spaar]

I would echo some of the sentiments already expressed here, and recommend that the giant's immunity to illusions be treated as immunity to mind-affecting illusions (patterns and phantasms) as well as any illusion-based effects that could or do target the giant and allow SR (such as anything resulting from shadow conjuration or shadow evocation). You may wish to include an automatically successful will save for any interaction with an illusion.

That said, I still believe invisibility would work against the giant unless it had activated its see invisibility option with its summoned spirits.

[KaeYoss]

Immunity doesn't directly affect the target, so immunity to illusion doesn't help.

It's like saying "immune to weapon damage means that if I cut the rope that suspends you above lava, you will not get burned".

Plus, getting see invisible in the very same power is a strong indicator that the immunity itself doesn't help.

[Nethys]

Caelinae wrote:

Our group finally has finished book #3 of the Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path and will be heading into Book #4 in a month (after all vacation is over) with the new pathfinder rulebook in hand and characters rebuilt, etc.

I was reading ahead and was stuck by something mentioned in the Taiga Giant's stat block on page 84. After summoning spirits a Taiga Giant is immune to illusion spells. Invisibility is an illusion spell so why would they need to "See Invisible" on top of that?

Thanks for your time.

The giant is immune to Illusions that target it.

Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys

[Teydyn]

Nethys wrote:

The giant is immune to Illusions that target it.

So you cant cast Invisibility on the giant? :)