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Lavinia murdered in her own home!


Savage Tide Adventure Path


Bullywug's Gambit denouement....

The PC's went for the frontal assault hostage rescue approach.

I think their gaming confidence ran away with the objective of rescuing Lavinia. They handled all the delaying encounters during Wormfall very efficiently and trounced the Stiltwalkers, so they made lots of noise, cast a minor image of giant burning letters warning Lavinia for her safety hovering in the square above the heads of the bewildered Sasserine citizenry and just barreled in through the front door.

Then they all started to split up running around the Al-Deboran (I re-named the family for a more exotic feel) manor house. Of course the inhabitants went to alarm status.

After polishing off the hunters in the atrium only Bathsheba the barbarian/fighter ran to the top floor on her own and barged into the hostage bedroom. Without a word of dialogue offered, except a hissed message ("top floor now!" - which Drevoraz heard) the barbarian was confronted alone with a lot of opponents. With the way the initiative broke just as Lavinia made her break towards the door the barbarian retreated and tried to jam the door closed. the Bullywugs made to attack and Drevoraz got two clean blows in on the desperate, scrabbling Lavina.

Of course after two rounds the rest of the party came to help out and they beat down the Bullywugs quickly, although there was a great staircase fight with Drevoraz leaping down between the floors to avoid the PC's before finally getting his just reward.

I don't want to pull punches for anyone PC or NPC. The group were horribly split up and I think the barbarian's player (who has a history of solo recklessness) has just learnt a painful lesson.

Anyway I'm relying on their sense of profound guilt at failing Lavinia meaning they will sell off some of the magic items they find to get her raised. Lavinia will just take to wearing scarves to hide the scars since Drevoraz gave her a glittering necklace she will never forget!


spikadelia wrote:


I don't want to pull punches for anyone PC or NPC. The group were horribly split up and I think the barbarian's player (who has a history of solo recklessness) has just learnt a painful lesson.

I think you may talk to the barbarian player outside the game about 'solo recklessness'. I find the Savage Tide is too savage for the type of player that runs off by himself and opens doors alone. Running Adventure Paths is a big investment in time and money for most DMs. They are full of wonderful, fun, well thought, but very deadly scenarios and monsters. If you don't want to pull punches for players or NPCs and you have a loose cannon PC running around, you will have a disaster on your hands sooner rather than later.


doppelganger wrote:
spikadelia wrote:


I don't want to pull punches for anyone PC or NPC. The group were horribly split up and I think the barbarian's player (who has a history of solo recklessness) has just learnt a painful lesson.
I think you may talk to the barbarian player outside the game about 'solo recklessness'. I find the Savage Tide is too savage for the type of player that runs off by himself and opens doors alone. Running Adventure Paths is a big investment in time and money for most DMs. They are full of wonderful, fun, well thought, but very deadly scenarios and monsters. If you don't want to pull punches for players or NPCs and you have a loose cannon PC running around, you will have a disaster on your hands sooner rather than later.

He could do that... or he could let the barbarian's player learn the value of teamwork the hard way. My experience has been that players who are bound and determined to go tearing off on their own do so until they have the lesson of "Your characters can and will die when they go off too far from their buddies" the hard way. One of my current players took two Adventure Paths to learn this lesson.

Not saying that spikadelia shouldn't talk to him. If the player does not heed the warning ... well, too bad. He'll be lucky if the only deaths are NPCs.


Turin the Mad wrote:

He could do that... or he could let the barbarian's player learn the value of teamwork the hard way. My experience has been that players who are bound and determined to go tearing off on their own do so until they have the lesson of "Your characters can and will die when they go off too far from their buddies" the hard way. One of my current players took two Adventure Paths to learn this lesson.

Not saying that spikadelia shouldn't talk to him. If the player does not heed the warning ... well, too bad. He'll be lucky if the only deaths are NPCs.

The problem with this approach in the STAP is that such a player can do in the entire team with poor choices or trash the plot by getting important NPC's killed. While I fully support letting players learn from their mistakes I'd rather not punish the entire group because of one impulsive person. I've seen such actions create personal hostility between players.


Mazaku wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:

He could do that... or he could let the barbarian's player learn the value of teamwork the hard way. My experience has been that players who are bound and determined to go tearing off on their own do so until they have the lesson of "Your characters can and will die when they go off too far from their buddies" the hard way. One of my current players took two Adventure Paths to learn this lesson.

Not saying that spikadelia shouldn't talk to him. If the player does not heed the warning ... well, too bad. He'll be lucky if the only deaths are NPCs.

The problem with this approach in the STAP is that such a player can do in the entire team with poor choices or trash the plot by getting important NPC's killed. While I fully support letting players learn from their mistakes I'd rather not punish the entire group because of one impulsive person. I've seen such actions create personal hostility between players.

True, true - I can see that especially in a fairly new group being a problem.

To the OP: Definitely talk to the rabid wombat player, let him know the situation.


Thanks for your thoughts. The player in question is by turns infuriating and occasionally inspirational. In a previous game a few years back our party was charged with wiping out a pack of dinosaurs. Once again our player (playing a rogue) disappeared while we were all up country and at that exact moment striking our camp. Cut to rogue running hasted at breakneck speed down the gully towards us with the immortal line "I found theeeeeeem" and the entire pack in hot pursuit.

At least post the "wake" of the Sea Wyvern the shoreline dino encounter is planned!

I'm going to use Lady Silvermane of the Church of the Whirling Fury to counsel Bathsheba. After all the character wants to become a Champion of Gwnharwyf and has taken the feat which allows them to control their rage (name escapes me and I'm in Sweden on holiday so no books to hand). I'll lead the player to reveal the circumstances of Lavinia's death and the quiet words of advice that follow should provide a plausible and timely touch of guidance.

I'm having a blast running the adventure path and one of the great things is the messageboards here - full of ideas, support and cracking stories.

Skol!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Turin the Mad wrote:
He could do that... or he could let the barbarian's player learn the value of teamwork the hard way. My experience has been that players who are bound and determined to go tearing off on their own do so until they have the lesson of "Your characters can and will die when they go off too far from their buddies" the hard way. One of my current players took two Adventure Paths to learn this lesson.

Or maybe your player enjoy a more fast, loose style. As long as everyone is having fun and no player completely steals the limelight, a more heroic style, where the players actually have a chance of surviving things like this, might be what this group needs.

Not everyone enjoys a game of constant tactical challenge; sometimes its good to just be the hero and face challenges that are dramatic but not all that dangerous. It all depends on what the players are looking for in their game.


spikadelia wrote:


I don't want to pull punches for anyone PC or NPC.
Carl Cramér wrote:


Not everyone enjoys a game of constant tactical challenge; sometimes its good to just be the hero and face challenges that are dramatic but not all that dangerous. It all depends on what the players are looking for in their game.

It also depends on what the DM is looking to run, and the OP has already stated his play style is no pulled punches.

In situations with clashing playstyles, out-of-game discussion and possible compromise are almost always the way to go. I can't personally think of any situations where this would not be the appropriate first step, although I suppose some could exist.


Carl Cramér wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
He could do that... or he could let the barbarian's player learn the value of teamwork the hard way. My experience has been that players who are bound and determined to go tearing off on their own do so until they have the lesson of "Your characters can and will die when they go off too far from their buddies" the hard way. One of my current players took two Adventure Paths to learn this lesson.

Or maybe your player enjoy a more fast, loose style. As long as everyone is having fun and no player completely steals the limelight, a more heroic style, where the players actually have a chance of surviving things like this, might be what this group needs.

Not everyone enjoys a game of constant tactical challenge; sometimes its good to just be the hero and face challenges that are dramatic but not all that dangerous. It all depends on what the players are looking for in their game.

He started out in the early days of 3.0 as an attention pig. I don't have a problem with him in general terms - his fellow players often do have a problem when he goes and gets his character planted six feet under. He has learned that there are times when a brave, heroic banzai charge is just the thing - and that there are other times when being more than a move-action from the spell chuckers of the party is a Bad Thing.

We generally as a group have a blast - playing Society scenarios, for example. I try not to stifle his creativity, but some of the stuff he "homebrews" is generally poorly thought out.

I think most of the time the game play is not at all dangerous while supporting heroics. Now and again it is nice to get a really good scrap though, one that leaves them hanging by threads.

It will be very interesting to see how the OP's STAP develops with the early, messy demise of Lavinia.


spikadelia wrote:
The PC's went for the frontal assault hostage rescue approach.

This is the ill-fated direction my group went as well.

Turin the Mad wrote:
It will be very interesting to see how the OP's STAP develops with the early, messy demise of Lavinia.

I had a thread a while back about the death of Lavinia. IMC, she died in session 5. We're coming up on session 25 this weekend. There haven't really been any major issues.

Actually PC turnover during SWW was more problematic than Lavinia's death. Only 2 of the original PCs who began the voyage and knew of the Vanderborens are still alive.

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