"Each bardic performance has audible components, visual components, or both."
I can't find any reference to which perform types correspond to audible, visual or both. Is this meant to be left up the the DM?
"At 1st level, a bard can use his performance to counter magic effects that depend on sight. Each round of the distraction, he makes a Perform(act, comedy, dance, or oratory) skill check."
Does this mean Oratory is considered visual? Both?
"A bard must have a minimum number of ranks to use his Bardic Performance abilities. Consult the Bardic Performance section of the bard class description in Chapter 3 for more details."
The Bardic Performance section referenced does not address minimum skill requirements; all requirements are listed as simply level dependent...
Many Bardic Performances require audible and visual performance to function. Does this mean that a bard may use two perform skills - sing and dance for example - or that the bard must use a skill that is both audible and visual. If the bard is required to do something that is both audible and visual, which performance types qualify?
There is no versatile performance entry for Perform(sing). Is that intentional?
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"Each bardic performance has audible components, visual components, or both."I can't find any reference to which perform types correspond to audible, visual or both. Is this meant to be left up the the DM?
The last line of each type of Bardic Performance clears this up. For example, the last line of "Countersong" states that "Countersong relies on audible components."
"At 1st level, a bard can use his performance to counter magic effects that depend on sight. Each round of the distraction, he makes a Perform(act, comedy, dance, or oratory) skill check."Does this mean Oratory is considered visual? Both?
In the case of Distraction, you would reference the line at the end. "Distraction relies on visible components."
"A bard must have a minimum number of ranks to use his Bardic Performance abilities. Consult the Bardic Performance section of the bard class description in Chapter 3 for more details."The Bardic Performance section referenced does not address minimum skill requirements; all requirements are listed as simply level dependent...
This is likely a left-over from the Beta, and will be errata'd.
Many Bardic Performances require audible and visual performance to function. Does this mean that a bard may use two perform skills - sing and dance for example - or that the bard must use a skill that is both audible and visual. If the bard is required to do something that is both audible and visual, which performance types qualify?There is no versatile performance entry for Perform(sing). Is that intentional?
See above. All Bardic Performances explain which type they are in the last line of each entry's text.
As for Perform (Sing), this will likely be included in the errata as well.
Your God of Knowledge,
Nethys
"At 1st level, a bard can use his performance to counter magic effects that depend on sight. Each round of the distraction, he makes a Perform(act, comedy, dance, or oratory) skill check."Does this mean Oratory is considered visual? Both?
Public speakers are trained to emphasize not only their verbal presentation, but nonverbal cues and communication as well; mastery of both verbal and nonverbal presentation styles are vital to a good orator.
The last line of each type of Bardic Performance clears this up. For example, the last line of "Countersong" states that "Countersong relies on audible components."
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In the case of Distraction, you would reference the line at the end. "Distraction relies on visible components."
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See above. All Bardic Performances explain which type they are in the last line of each entry's text.
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As for Perform (Sing), this will likely be included in the errata as well.
The OP is asking which specific perform skills cualify for having visible components and which for audible components.
Only Countersong and Distraction list which perform skills must be used. Then, if for ex. you want to Fascinate (Visual and Audible components), which perform skill could you use? Anyone?
The last line of each type of Bardic Performance clears this up. For example, the last line of "Countersong" states that "Countersong relies on audible components."
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In the case of Distraction, you would reference the line at the end. "Distraction relies on visible components."
...
See above. All Bardic Performances explain which type they are in the last line of each entry's text.
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As for Perform (Sing), this will likely be included in the errata as well.
The OP is asking which specific perform skills cualify for having visible components and which for audible components.
Only Countersong and Distraction list which perform skills must be used. Then, if for ex. you want to Fascinate (Visual and Audible components), which perform skill could you use? Anyone?
This is correct, I was asking for clarification on which Perform Skill Variants produced Audible, Visual or Both types of performance, not which performances required audible, visual or both - the latter is clearly stated in the rules.
What I want to know is how to define each of the following:
Act: Visual, Audible or Both?
Comedy: Visual, Audible or Both?
Dance: Probably just Visual
Keyboard: Visual, Audible or Both?
Oratory: Visual, Audible or Both?
Percussion: Visual, Audible or Both?
String: Visual, Audible or Both?
Wind: Visual, Audible or Both?
Sing: Probably just Audible
Also, if a Perform Skill, like Oratory, is both audible and visual, does that mean it only functions when the bard can be both seen and heard? Could one Orate in a silence spell to inspire courage? Could one Act in a darkness spell to inspire courage?
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I would say that all the performance techniques have both visual and audible components, but that bardic performance abilities rely on certain ones. For inspire greatness, you can choose which one.
If you're going to be flamenco dancing or tap dancing in a darkness spell, though, be sure to be very, very loud. So everyone can hear you. Get yourself a pair of masterwork castinettes or finger-cymbals if belly-dancing's your thing. :)
The Bardic Performance section referenced does not address minimum skill requirements; all requirements are listed as simply level dependent...
I haven't noticed that! Good riddance!
They have other ways to coax you into taking many, many perform skills now (versatile performance).
Inspire Greatness. This bardic music ability allows to "heal" 2d10+2*CON per round.
At 13th level you can start a bardic perfomance ability as a swift action. If every round you stop performing and then starting Inspire Greatness, you are adding the temporary hp every round. Though the temporary hp are not cumulative, we can expect that 2 or 3 characters are hit in a fight every round. At level 13th+, it is easily 30+ hp, more than the Inspire Greatness could give.
Well, more than a healing, it is a "damage reduction" of 11-30. Even if you are not allowed "change" to the same perform every round, you could do it every other round, alternating with Inspire Heroics.
Is this right? Have I missed anything? If not, I think it is a design error, as it would be clearly overpowered and we should house rule it.
Inspire Greatness. This bardic music ability allows to "heal" 2d10+2*CON per round.
At 13th level you can start a bardic perfomance ability as a swift action. If every round you stop performing and then starting Inspire Greatness, you are adding the temporary hp every round. Though the temporary hp are not cumulative, we can expect that 2 or 3 characters are hit in a fight every round. At level 13th+, it is easily 30+ hp, more than the Inspire Greatness could give.
Well, more than a healing, it is a "damage reduction" of 11-30. Even if you are not allowed "change" to the same perform every round, you could do it every other round, alternating with Inspire Heroics.
Is this right? Have I missed anything? If not, I think it is a design error, as it would be clearly overpowered and we should house rule it.
It would work generally as you note, but you did miss some things.
It's a rather expensive form of damage reduction in terms of resource and action management. And it's not even that reliable; at level 13 the ability only applies to a single target. In any given round said target might not even be subject to any damage, in which case the extra hit points are wasted. It doesn't even begin to effect an entire party of four until level 18. Additionally, while a performance can be started as a swift action:
Changing a bardic performance from one effect to another requires the bard to stop the previous performance and start a new one as a standard action.
The time to perform such a switch does not decrease as a bard gains levels. So while one could use Inspire Greatness in such a manner, such a player would be sacrificing a standard action each round to change from the ongoing performance to a new one, rather than a swift action.
It's a rather expensive form of damage reduction in terms of resource and action management.
I don't think it is expensive: adding +2 to attack all the rounds you have the perfomance up, and about 15-20 hp for 1 point of bardic perfomance.
And it's not even that reliable; at level 13 the ability only applies to a single target. In any given round said target might not even be subject to any damage, in which case the extra hit points are wasted. It doesn't even begin to effect an entire party of four until level 18.
The ability begins at level 9th with one target, and one target is added for every 3 levels, then 2 targets at level 12th, three at 15th, 4 at 18th.
For the "wasted" hp. Is then the usual way of using Inspire Greatness (just one starting, mantaining for x rounds) a waste? You would never use it?Of course, you never know if you are going to be hit. But then, if your attack with inspire courage fails, it's also a waste of the damage bonus? As every ability, it is situational. Very useful if your fighter and your paladin are fighting in a corridor, or versus a dragon, and the rest of the group is far from the damage. But rather useless if you are being attacked by invisible creatures.
Changing a bardic performance from one effect to another requires the bard to stop the previous performance and start a new one as a standard action. The time to perform such a switch does not decrease as a bard gains levels.
I don't understand it this way. What that paragraph is saying is that if you begin a new performance, you have to stop your previous perfomance. It is broken down into "requires the bard to stop the previous performance" and then "start a new one as a standard action", as usual, reduced to swift after level 13th.
In fact, you have to use a free action to mantain a bardic perfomance. If you don't use it, the perfomance just finish. Then, you use a swift action to start a new perfomance.
I don't think it is expensive: adding +2 to attack all the rounds you have the perfomance up, and about 15-20 hp for 1 point of bardic perfomance.
That would be a matter of opinion. In the same manner as you think it's not expensive, I don't think it needs to be houseruled as written.
The ability begins at level 9th with one target, and one target is added for every 3 levels, then 2 targets at level 12th, three at 15th, 4 at 18th.
You're right, of course. I rolled multiple lines of text into one for some reason.
For the "wasted" hp. Is then the usual way of using Inspire Greatness (just one starting, mantaining for x rounds) a waste? You would never use it?
Of course, you never know if you are going to be hit. But then, if your attack with inspire courage fails, it's also a waste of the damage bonus? As every ability, it is situational. Very useful if your fighter and your paladin are fighting in a corridor, or versus a dragon, and the rest of the group is far from the damage. But rather useless if you are being attacked by invisible creatures.
I left the other aspects of the ability out of the discussion on purpose. Of course it's a good performance to use. I would expect any bard to use it. But for the sake of your concerns, all that really matters is its ability to mitigate damage.
I don't understand it this way. What that paragraph is saying is that if you begin a new performance, you have to stop your previous perfomance. It is broken down into "requires the bard to stop the previous performance" and then "start a new one as a standard action", as usual, reduced to swift after level 13th.
In fact, you have to use a free action to mantain a bardic perfomance. If you don't use it, the perfomance just finish. Then, you use a swift action to start a new...
Well, that's something that needs clarification then. As I read it the entire process of starting a new performance after immediately ending one takes more effort than beginning a performance normally. As a musician, this is something I can honestly appreciate.
I left the other aspects of the ability out of the discussion on purpose. Of course it's a good performance to use. I would expect any bard to use it. But for the sake of your concerns, all that really matters is its ability to mitigate damage.
Well, that's something that needs clarification then. As I read it the entire process of starting a new performance after...
I don't think all that really matters is the damage mitigation. What I am saying is that, if you start the perfomance every round, it could lead to an excessive powerful effect. If you are going to use it anyway, it is nonsense that you don't start the perform every round.
Of course this is if you can change your perfomance with a swift action; maybe it could be written more clearly, but it seems pretty clear to me.
I don't think all that really matters is the damage mitigation.
I never claimed you did. But the other effects have no bearing on the current discussion, hence why I didn't bother mentioning them.
I don't think all that really matters is the damage mitigation. What I am saying is that, if you start the perfomance every round, it could lead to an excessive powerful effect.
Yep. This is the kind of thing that comes from removing the incentive of the Bard to maintain their song for as long as possible. There's another negative to this as well, which I suspect may be why Song of Freedom is gone:
How do you "price" songs that don't have an effect that can occur every round? Song of Freedom had a 1 minute perform time, to equal the 1 minute cast time of the spell it duplicated. That worked out perfectly fine when Bardic Music was uses/day, because it didn't matter how long each use was. With rounds/day, however, Song of Freedom took 10 rounds (5 full Bard levels!) of use to duplicate an occasionally useful 4th level spell. That's not worthwhile at all. Yet, at the same time, just making it cost 1 round of performance seems too cheap to duplicate a somewhat useful 4th level spell. Making it cost other numbers just makes it a book-keeping headache...
One of the reasons I'm seriously displeased with rounds/day.