Have to check out the fast play even if I refuse to play in the current timeline
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Have to check out the fast play even if I refuse to play in the current timeline
I'm more inclined to play in the current timeline -- I'm glad they've reverted to the Succession Wars/Clan War period rather than carry on with the Dark Ages, which never interested me.
Indeed a lot of what came after the battle of Tukkayid never really appealed to me -- the Word of Blake doing their thing, Wolf-in-Exile, the FedCom civil war...
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Feh, I'll believe it when I see it.
Strat Ops is supposed to be out this Tuesday, you know, the product that was supposed to be out 1st quarter? I'm not one to pay $50 for a book, then $30 for a PDF of that book.
I love the battletech universe, but I've become jaded of late.
They have not reverted back. They are in the build up for dark age. Sad really.
Neg. From what I have picked up word of black has waged a war vs the whole Inner sphere. Nuking and over running worlds with massive ease. They have pulled out more warships then god, have cyber troopers and enough nukes to kill mankind. Add on top of that clans no longer even act like clans and they plan to kill most of em off anyhow.
Sigh I'll never go past 3058 with canon, and most times not past 3052. The ease of bulldog and serpent along with Victor and the super friends just killed me with canon
Neg. From what I have picked up word of black has waged a war vs the whole Inner sphere. Nuking and over running worlds with massive ease. They have pulled out more warships then god, have cyber troopers and enough nukes to kill mankind. Add on top of that clans no longer even act like clans and they plan to kill most of em off anyhow.
Sigh I'll never go past 3058 with canon, and most times not past 3052. The ease of bulldog and serpent along with Victor and the super friends just killed me with canon
If it's Dark Ages, I'm in whole hog, and will happily pay retail. Me and mine are tired being sidelined by the neckbeards and will happily represent. ::spins MW-related bling::
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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It appears that Catalyst (with Topps blessing) is trying to cater to all parties here. JHS 3076 is a good example. The back has 6 optional eras listed: Star League, Succession Wars, Clan Invasion Era, Civil War Era, Jihad Era, and Dark Age TR 3075 didn't have the Dark Age era listed, or it should have covered Star League, Succession Wars, Jihad and Dark Age, since some DA mechs and vehicles are given stats there.
Forgive me for not having a source to cite, but it was my understanding that the 40 year jump was planned by FASA but executed under WizKids. How much the FASA jump and the WK jump were the same, I don't know.
I do know that Catalyst is looking long term, pushing the timeline forward (through the Jihad and into DA) and looking backwards (Historics like Operation Klondike have been rumoured for a while, and LAMs may make a return in a historical book. We now have stats for the Royal units, as shown in 3075). I also know all periods are supported with fiction. Mostly through Battlecorps, but also through some novels. I don't doubt Catalyst's vision of the future of Battletech, it's their execution that worries me.
I mean I'm not keen on the original premise behind the DA. (Someone again has a super army that somehow hits almost every HPG in the Inner Sphere at once (and maybe the Homeworlds too) and no one can fix them.) You'd think at least the heads of the successor states, if not Comstar or planetary governours would have thought "Maybe I should take steps to keep that from happening again..." And I hate the Devilin Stone McGuffin.
Intersteller Operations is suppose to cover alternate time periods and the stranger tech (stuff that is part of cannon but push the limits of the universe), such as LAMs and the WOB cyborgs.
As to including other eras, TRO 3075 has more Star League 'mechs and vehicles, such as the non-primitive Mackie upgrade fielded by the Star League and a number of Terran Hedgemony designs.
I may be off a bit about the WOB jihad, but it seems that most of the damage was from orbital bombardment or lightning raids against major plnates/production centers. The result is that a lot of smaller firms are stepping in to produce battlemechs and vehicles. Yeah we might have the Dark Ages by the end of it, but we will be back to skirmishing for resources.
I will not play DA or the current time line. Devilin Stone is just more victor and the superfriends. Wob having more troops then god is just funny
The clans could not do it with better tech and solders. The great houses could not do it in 4 wars. Fedcom could not do it even having half the sphere, but WOb can! And guess what they have been running everything for 2 hundred years. even knew about the clans ahead of time, with the not named being part of then and all
To many recons, to much hand waving. And to much over the top fiat. Where are the wardens? why did not every single warden clan unify and hit the WoB hard? Where are the crusader? Why did they not slam the Wob hard?
Here is the one unifying thing and they did not act like clan. They act like IS with clan tech in canon now.
I find it silly. I will play any era that is set before 3058. I will never run a game set in canon after that as it is no longer the setting I used to enjoy but more you got shadowrun in my battletech
I find the whole mess silly
Herbert Beas has happily fanned the sentiment that Devlin Stone, the supposed McGuffin, was the REAL Blakist plan all along. WoB's original sentiment has always been for ComStar to stop mucking around and re-establish the Terran Hegemony and kick-start another Succession War.
What better way to do so than to give start a war you fully intend to lose, shell-shock even the grimmest Inner Sphere veteran with the nastiest total-war tactics straight out of the 1st Succession War, then give the Inner Sphere it's 'last best hope' and then have that hero deliver your original goals from the start. Then remove the Messiah figure, have the 'Republic' collapse into chaos right away and start a massive nationalism fueled land grab by the major Houses.
Personally, this is my two cents worth. I've never been a fan of the Clans in general though I can fully understand why many are. I was never fully sold on the whole SPACE OPERA angle and I was incredibly happy that the Inner Sphere launched Bulldog, thumped the Clan threat and happily got back to politics as usual.
The destruction of the home Clans in the Clan Civil War during the Jihad era due to the machinations of the exiled Wolverines was just gravy for me.
I'm enjoying the collapse period greatly in that it just feels right. It's like a reversion to the 3025 era mad max in space concept where everything around you is falling apart (with new toys).
Well bulldog bugged me bad. You take out one of the toughest clans with no sweat yet when ya get to the homeworld cadets give you pure hell?
Then the leadership take stupid pills for about 15 years, act like idiots while the super friends have zero issues doing well anything. I don't mind clans losing, what I did mind was Mary sue being untouchable while doing it. Sure bull dog could have worked but even with 5 to one odd the Jags would have inflicted a damned lot of damaged on the IS forces. Jags used heavy's and assaults in 2/3rds of all stars. They did not flee they stood and died and if you play that out, the IS takes 30-50% looses from every battle. Not 10% over all
You take one of the most aggressive clan, place them in a corner and let them know they face death. Then send in the IS forces and tell me how easy that was.
That is my issue with Bulldog. Serpent is another matter which is even worse. The clans warden or crusader do not let the IS just pop into the homeworlds let alone wage IS style war . Serpent should have never made it out of the Homeworlds. Clan warships outnumbered them at lest 50 to 1
So yeah I had real in setting issues with that and the vast amount of recons of late
I always thought the whole Clan thing was FASA writing themselves into a corner anyway. There's only so much you can write about a space opera before people start to notice that the plot isn't developing.
Besides, I've never liked Michael Stackpole's writing which is annoying given he had so much free reign over the Battletech storyline anyway. Generally all his protagonists from Kai-Allard Liao, Justin Xiang, Phelan Kell and both Hanse and Victor Davion, have typically suffered from glorified Mary Sue syndrome, looking at the way which their opponents immediately descend into 'Guh...' territory the moment these avatars of authorial might take to the field.
Even Catalyst has looked back and made fun of this with the April Fools Day "Best Ever" supplement (Marisoo, Dwarf Prince and Arthur Fiat).
In general, I'm okay with Bulldog and the Jihad as slate cleansers because it restores Battletech's status quo and the balance of power by kicking the 'ubermensch' or 'superstate' off their pretty pedestal.
Generally, I'm happy with how Catalyst is handling the whole thing. The release of source books targeting the different eras makes me a happy camper, since I am one of those evolutionary throwbacks who actually prefers the Succession Wars era to any other.
Well bulldog bugged me bad. You take out one of the toughest clans with no sweat yet when ya get to the homeworld cadets give you pure hell?
Then the leadership take stupid pills for about 15 years, act like idiots while the super friends have zero issues doing well anything. I don't mind clans losing, what I did mind was Mary sue being untouchable while doing it. Sure bull dog could have worked but even with 5 to one odd the Jags would have inflicted a damned lot of damaged on the IS forces. Jags used heavy's and assaults in 2/3rds of all stars. They did not flee they stood and died and if you play that out, the IS takes 30-50% looses from every battle. Not 10% over all
You take one of the most aggressive clan, place them in a corner and let them know they face death. Then send in the IS forces and tell me how easy that was.
That is my issue with Bulldog. Serpent is another matter which is even worse. The clans warden or crusader do not let the IS just pop into the homeworlds let alone wage IS style war . Serpent should have never made it out of the Homeworlds. Clan warships outnumbered them at lest 50 to 1
So yeah I had real in setting issues with that and the vast amount of recons of late
Sorry but I just couldn't resist. Most hardcore MW/BT fans swear they have no problem with their favorite(or indeed, any) clan losing, but then IMMEDIATELY whip out statistics showing that there is no way this could EVER happen. Ditto on the Mary Sue issue- it's okay when Clans are shown to be infallible in almost every way(unless fighting each other), but the instant IC does anything other than grab their ankles when dropships appear in the upper atmosphere, suddenly something is very wrong. And god forbid the IC should mount a SUCCESSFUL offensive...
I'm sorry. This is coming out a lot harsher than I want it to. It's just that YES, the IC is capable of doing something other than bleeding all over Clan fists, and NO, clans are not infallible.
I always thought the whole Clan thing was FASA writing themselves into a corner anyway. There's only so much you can write about a space opera before people start to notice that the plot isn't developing.
Besides, I've never liked Michael Stackpole's writing which is annoying given he had so much free reign over the Battletech storyline anyway. Generally all his protagonists from Kai-Allard Liao, Justin Xiang, Phelan Kell and both Hanse and Victor Davion, have typically suffered from glorified Mary Sue syndrome, looking at the way which their opponents immediately descend into 'Guh...' territory the moment these avatars of authorial might take to the field.
Even Catalyst has looked back and made fun of this with the April Fools Day "Best Ever" supplement (Marisoo, Dwarf Prince and Arthur Fiat).
In general, I'm okay with Bulldog and the Jihad as slate cleansers because it restores Battletech's status quo and the balance of power by kicking the 'ubermensch' or 'superstate' off their pretty pedestal.
Generally, I'm happy with how Catalyst is handling the whole thing. The release of source books targeting the different eras makes me a happy camper, since I am one of those evolutionary throwbacks who actually prefers the Succession Wars era to any other.
Okay, I agree with many points here and not just because I like DA. I like Stackpole's writing, but even I can only take him in small doses- the X-Wing series has some pretty MJed-out characters, and I can see how giving him an entire world to fill with protagonists would get old quickly, so I apologize again for my vitriol in the above post.
I look forward to the release of this game, however- the idea that both the good Star Captain and I can pick up the same book and enjoy it heartens me greatly.
Sorry but I just couldn't resist. Most hardcore MW/BT fans swear they have no problem with their favorite(or indeed, any) clan losing, but then IMMEDIATELY whip out statistics showing that there is no way this could EVER happen. Ditto on the Mary Sue issue- it's okay when Clans are shown to be infallible in almost every way(unless fighting each other), but the instant IC does anything other than grab their ankles when dropships appear in the upper atmosphere, suddenly something is very wrong. And god forbid the IC should mount a SUCCESSFUL offensive...I'm sorry. This is coming out a lot harsher than I want it to. It's just that YES, the IC is capable of doing something other than bleeding all over Clan fists, and NO, clans are not infallible.
Aff the clans are not Infallible. And yes the jags could have lost. I have no issue in the loosing but the fact that the Bulldog forces took almost zero loses. At five to one the Jags would lose. But Let me ask you this. If you played this out even at five to one odd, how easy would the IS forces Kill front line elite Jag forces?
The serpent got hurt by unblooded sibkin? So the best of the clan in assault mechs could not hurt the IS forces but cadets made em bleed bad?
I would not have minded if Bulldog had fit. Going out while decimating all sides fit. I would play you 5 to one odds any day with Jag heavy's and Assaults and just see if I only hurt 1 mech.
We both know you will win, just as we both know it will cost you a damned lot to win.
My grip is over how it was done not that it was done. And I hate the fact the clans got the IQ of a bean every time victor was withing 100 light years of them. Clans not acting like clans is another huge issue for me. They write them like IS with clan tech now.
The clans are not the IS with better weapons.
I also found the Fedcom civil war over blown and silly as well as the Jihad its just silly. The have more troops then all the clans, then all the houses and more weapons then god. The clans could not do what they are doing. The fed com could not do it. The houses could not do it in what 4 wars. But by blake they can do it!
sorry very silly. Do not get me started on the silliness of the dark age
In general, I'm okay with Bulldog and the Jihad as slate cleansers because it restores Battletech's status quo and the balance of power by kicking the 'ubermensch' or 'superstate' off their pretty pedestal.
Generally, I'm happy with how Catalyst is handling the whole thing. The release of source books targeting the different eras makes me a happy camper, since I am one of those evolutionary throwbacks who actually prefers the Succession Wars era to any other.
I really dislike the Jihad, it could have been alot more interesting without it. Bulldog succeeds at a deep price serpent fails. Some clans invade, the Fedom falls apart,... and so on. But I no longer will use the current timeline I find it silly, and I loath recons
I do like catalyst as a whole and I give them credit for the many era's of play. Nice work on the age of war stuff that be a fantastic era to play in
My grip is over how it was done not that it was done. And I hate the fact the clans got the IQ of a bean every time victor was withing 100 light years of them. Clans not acting like clans is another huge issue for me. They write them like IS with clan tech now.
The clans are not the IS with better weapons.
Like it or not, the Clans got curb-stomped on Tukayyid facing Inner Sphere brand warfare (though the Com Guards bled themselves white doing so).
Bulldog was a smash and starve operation. You're right that it went a bit too fast, but generally, Clan Assault 'Mechs used with Clan tactics work utter rubbish against Inner Sphere tacticians except in a straight up fight.
A Clan defender in a dug in position is almost unassailable, as Sir Paul Masters once pointed out. He also pointed out that a Clan defender is liable to rush out of a defensive position screaming at you about personal honor. Couple this with the Inner Sphere superiority in both backfield support such as Artillery and Air Superiority and it's liable to become a slaughter.
Post slaughter, 'Mech and conventional forces mop up.
In a game of Battletech, Clan players consistently deliver massive beatings to Inner Sphere opponents win or lose because ultimately, the game is ultimately a dueling system. When loaded with strategic assets however, games of Battleforce can rapidly go the other way as Clan forces have little or no means to respond to an Inner Sphere opponent who refuses to make contact and relies on initially depleting the opposition before forcing the issue.
Stripped of the ability to force a conflict on their terms in an offensive, Clan honor becomes an actual liability rather than strength. Notice that the Smoke Jaguars handled the defeat on Tukayyid by black-listing the warriors who fought rather than admitting problems with their strategies.
Inner Sphere losses were admittedly light, but not unreasonable against the suggested 'Last Samurai' style charges supposedly made by Jaguar forces.
I also found the Fedcom civil war over blown and silly as well as the Jihad its just silly. The have more troops then all the clans, then all the houses and more weapons...
The Blakists do not in fact have the forces you claim, but they do in fact have a FedCom-ish size force, equipped with subverted production from the Free World League (which currently outproduces the Lyran Alliance). It's not a lot in the grand Inner Sphere scheme of things, but Word of Blake is PLAYING TO LOSE. ComStar stashed away lots of nasty old chemical/biological/nuclear weapons on Terra. Word of Blake is willing to use that as a force equalizer. They, unlike everyone else have no need to hold forces in reserve because they don't frankly care anymore.
The idea of the Jihad is to knock out the leadership (Nuking Tharkad, New Avalon, Chaos on Luthien, the 'Thomas' Halas reveal), use the chaos to show the Inner Sphere what real bad boys they are, and then deliver their messiah.
As an added perk, use their Wolverine contacts to destabilize the Home Clans (looking back at the Sourcebooks, civil war was never particularly far away from Clan society) and bingo.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The other thing to remember about the Smoked Kitties.
They lied.
A lot.
They overstated their strength to the other clans Tourmans. Ironically the bidding process helped with that.
They sat on a genetic repository that was never used.
They developed Protos *because* they were starved for resources.
They also had no qualms about using orbitals or biologics. The later would have been grounds for a trial of annialation.
Also during Bulldog, they not only had the combined forces of 5 nations, the comguard and WiE after them, they also were fighting Nova cats as well.
It also looks like the Wobbies may have used biologics against the homeworlds, maybe with Blood Spirit help. We know there's a Jade Chicken civil war, the Hellions go bandit, and the Devil Ponies beat on the Wolves. JHS 3076 hints at the Mandrils being destroyed, and we don't know about the rest, but all the IS clans have lost contact with the home worlds (except maybe Diamond Shark/Sea Fox).
Like it or not, the Clans got curb-stomped on Tukayyid facing Inner Sphere brand warfare (though the Com Guards bled themselves white doing so).
Bulldog was a smash and starve operation. You're right that it went a bit too fast, but generally, Clan Assault 'Mechs used with Clan tactics work utter rubbish against Inner Sphere tacticians except in a straight up fight.
See this is the issue. I was cool with tukayyid, as both sides bleed. Bulldog was a pure smash, no stave. Look at the time table there was zero wait em out it was pure up assault. I read the books long ago now, it was a pure assault. I am good with them loosing not with bulldog not bleeding hard for it.
And I will call BS on everything serpent.
As for the Wob I did not mean totals, but you proved my point. They have more forces then any one clan or great house. Sorry where the hell did it come from? I don't buy the well the FWL sold it all to us. No one builds up that kind of force in the IS without the houses finding out.
Clan is my main chosen faction but I just can't believe the IS is that incompetent. Someone somewhere would have seen something.
The other thing to remember about the Smoked Kitties.
They lied.
A lot.
They overstated their strength to the other clans Tourmans. Ironically the bidding process helped with that.
They sat on a genetic repository that was never used.
They developed Protos *because* they were starved for resources.
They also had no qualms about using orbitals or biologics. The later would have been grounds for a trial of annialation.
And this is where the recon comes in. The jag tourman were big, as large as wolf and falcon if not bigger. This was reconed in the Tofc books
point 2 also recon.
point 3 was a way to give the clans weakness, never made sense but I can roll with that. How can anyone be short of metal with many worlds and astorld fields to mine this is counter to all data before that
Also recon, they did use orbital, overhanded they were but they had the right to do so.
If ya read the pre totc stuff ya see a huge diff in how things were written.
Of coarse I was also not pleased with some pre clan IS recons of late either
However the fast play rules hold promise so I can always play in an era of a alt time line more to my liking. Age of war game would be just fantastic
Also recon, they did use orbital, overhanded they were but they had the right to do so.
Turtle Bay has always been part of canon so I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that.
The Jaguars were condemned, even by their fellow Clansmen Civil unrest as justification to wipe an entire city off the map. No offense intended but... wait... wha...?
How can anyone be short of metal with many worlds and astorld fields to mine this is counter to all data before that
Having many worlds doesn't equate to having the necessary resources or the industrial base to do so. The Clan Homeworlds, as portrayed in the Clan Sourcebooks weren't exactly resource rich paradise.
The FASA era Clan Wolf Sourcebook, which I have sitting in front of me as I type extensively documents the fact that the Clan invasion was entirely based around 'SHOCK AND AWE' tactics to offset the Inner Sphere resource advantage. The collective Clans were mentioned to be stricken by the thought of losing the momentum they had built up due to the 'Miraborg Incident'.
The sourcebooks generally indicates that the Inner Sphere invasion was an "All-In" moment for the invading Clans, the Wolf sourcebook mentioning that even Clan second-line troops were pressed into service.
The Smoke Jaguars left Tukayyid with 90% of the troops as casualties and less than 22% of their equipment salvageable. That's two galaxies thrown into a meatgrinder with absolutely nothing to show for it.
If one goes by the supposedly un-retconned older sourcebooks, these pretty much indicate that the Jaguars had only Gamma and Delta Galaxies as valid fighting units in the years following the carnage.
If the sourcebook reports are correct and both the Draconis Combine and Nova Cats immediately used the opportunity to enter multiple punch-ups with the Jaguars and settle old scores post Tukayyid, it ultimately explains how the Jaguars were unable to rebuild.
All information presented here is pre-Twilight.
Given the size of the occupation zone, the inability to rebuild fighting units also explains the of Clusters (40 - 65 BattleMechs) as garrison level units. Given Bulldog involved throwing entire Inner Sphere 'Mech regiments along with supporting conventional forces, (plus bucket loads of angry Kuritans) at individual planets, it's no particular surprise that the fighting went the way it went. The liberal Inner Sphere use of Artillery and Air Support during operations against an opponent with no idea on how to wage defensive operations was just a sweetener. While, as you put it, a hard assault might not have worked outright, when coupled with the Inner Sphere's terrain based tactical awareness, aerial superiority and unrestricted supply and transport lines, I'm going to argue that the Jaguars actually put out a fairly good show losing the way they did.
Also, the whole Serpent route was done in a roundabout fashion to escape detection. The entire invasion was planned to avoid detection by NOT taking the direct route to the Clan Homeworlds and avoiding the populated systems en-route. You can call it BS, but when soldiers know where you live, have maps of your cities and am dropping in on your house with a good ten plus regiments of some of the finest soldiers the Inner Sphere has ever produced, BS or not, the Jaguars were going down. Minor skirmishing hiccups against ProtoMechs and cadets who got to their 'Mechs do not equate to pure hell (given the novels cover it from a MechWarrior's perspective rather than a strategic one and that, according to the Serpent sourcebook, they pacified the planet within a week).
Pure hell was when the Jaguar survivors wandered back into home-space. That means elite Smoke Jag soldiers facing across a roughly even number of Inner Sphere machines, with the Jaguars back in their familiar offensive position, which nullifies the traditional Inner Sphere tactical advantages. I'm actually surprised any Inner Sphere forces walked away from that tactical situation (but again, argument for a different time), but the logistics for taking a single planet was golden.
Personally, I'm not sold on the whole Victor with a Katana stuff on Strana Mechty myself either. An Inner Sphere win, yes. Victor 'Dwarf Prince' Davion, not so much.
Then again. I'm not here to convince you of anything. We're all Battletech players in some shape or form after all... It's not my place to tell you how to play your game and if the above post feels overbearingly like I'm foisting the universe on you (which it probably is), I apologize.
Hypocritically... I start getting grumpy with Inner Sphere Level 2 equipment, never mind the new stuff, so please pardon the vitriol of a grumpy Level 1 player (whose general solution to a 'Mech duel was to buy an equivalent BV of Stalkers and throw them at the target until it went away.)
Turtle Bay has always been part of canon so I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that.
The Jaguars were condemned, even by their fellow Clansmen Civil unrest as justification to wipe an entire city off the map. No offense intended but... wait... wha...?
Well they had the right even by clan law to do so. Was it over handed and wasteful yes. Was it outright banned by clan law. No The rebellion hand to be put down. As the people of Edo bay helped the rebels they did have the right to treat them as bandits.
And they did. Not what most clans would have done but not a violation of clan law
Having many worlds doesn't equate to having the necessary resources or the industrial base to do so. The Clan Homeworlds, as portrayed in the Clan Sourcebooks weren't exactly resource rich paradise.
This is way I was fine with that. I do not buy that as a whole but understand it and am good with it.
The Smoke Jaguars left Tukayyid with 90% of the troops as casualties and less than 22% of their equipment salvageable. That's two galaxies thrown into a meatgrinder with absolutely nothing to show for it.If one goes by the supposedly un-retconned older sourcebooks, these pretty much indicate that the Jaguars had only Gamma and Delta Galaxies as valid fighting units in the years following the carnage.
If the sourcebook reports are correct and both the Draconis Combine and Nova Cats immediately used the opportunity to enter multiple punch-ups with the Jaguars and settle old scores post Tukayyid, it ultimately explains how the Jaguars were unable to rebuild.
Yes they were under strength. But still does not explain the cake walk that was bulldog.
Also, the whole Serpent route was done in a roundabout fashion to escape detection. The entire invasion was planned to avoid detection by NOT taking the direct route to the Clan Homeworlds and avoiding the populated systems en-route. You can call it BS, but when soldiers know where you live, have maps of your cities and am dropping in on your house with a good ten plus regiments of some of the finest soldiers the Inner Sphere has ever produced, BS or not, the Jaguars were going down. Minor skirmishing hiccups against ProtoMechs and cadets who got to their 'Mechs do not equate to pure hell (given the novels cover it from a MechWarrior's perspective rather than a strategic one and that, according to the Serpent sourcebook, they pacified the planet within a week).
I think we have a misunderstanding about what I call BS on serpent. Not the fact they hit the jags, but the fact the other clans just let them touch Strana Mechty. They dared to bring the horror of IS war to the homeworlds. They threaten the clans as a whole. The They should have never left clan space.
Let's be honest. A task force jumps into your homeworlds then threatens to rain total war down upon you. And you let them walk? you outnumber them 10 to 1 easy and you let them walk?
Again it's not that it was done but how it was handled that I call BS on. The superfriends just bug me. I do not care who they fight or when they fight they bug the hell out of me. The shear amount of mary sue's in one place can not be good. In fact clan scientist think that is what warped the universe into the madness it now is.
Better if we spaced em all. I mean we can let you win if we can kill at lest half of them. You may kill the other half if you like. Only fair after all
I did play out the great refusal fights a little while ago. Want to know how they ended:)
The ERPPC to victor's dire wolf head in round one was just a thing of beauty.
I myself started playing with level 1 tech. With that little book with 14 mechs and only two auto cannons. When SRM were called packs and so on.
I never liked the MW 3 rule set really. This one does hold promise. I would be more then happy to play in any era but the DA and the current one. Well I may play in the current one but I can not tell you the hate I have for Dark age.
I have been thinking of late an age of war game would be great. Or maybe some old school 4th sw games or a clan game set in the 2800's before the rise of clan tech. Just so may ideals for a good MW game
Anyhow sorry for the rambling. Elemental's are emotional people
Yes they were under strength. But still does not explain the cake walk that was bulldog.
Personally, I disagree on that, but again, we'd just be picking over the same old arguments again and again.
The ERPPC to victor's dire wolf head in round one was just a thing of beauty.
THING OF BEAUTY!
Unfortunately... from the novels, we all know that apparently Prometheus can take HGR slugs to the head and walk away. 15 points of damage just isn't going to cut it.
Terrorist bomb got him in the end though, for which I am eternally grateful. Katherine Steiner getting to dance on his grave is just gravy.
At the end of the day, you're a Clanner, I'm a Marik. We've each got our own special little places in hell planned out for certain authors...
Star Lord... *SHUDDER*
The spoiler was funny and made me smile. Yeah starlord....... Still who ever plays a cannon game right. You will find this funny but I always wished the FWL got more screen time. I am so sick of Te fed com, House Davion and The bloody fed suns.
So many more interesting factions to write about
Have you had a chance to see the fast play rules yet?
Ah... the funeral was short and the coffin shorter...
But I digress...
And here comes a rant. Feel free to disregard.
FASA was always a slave to the sheer economics of it all.
But Marik... well... we had... stuff... that was cool... too... right?
My Davion loving friends once printed me a T-Shirt which comprised a map of the Inner Sphere with the Free World's League photoshopped out and replaced with a medieval map with the tagline "HERE THAR BE DRAGONS".
They were right of course.
Marik never got propriety technology. Sure, we invented the Light Gauss Rifle, ER Lasers and Special Missile Ammuo but everybody else used them. Our signature 'Mechs always eventually ended up on someone else's random force generation table. We never got spiffy novels. Our iconic characters were always cameos in other people's books. Our leaders were foreign stooges. And of course, the FWLM was always a safe punching bag if you needed someone to suck up a kick in the nuts.
Vicious cycle. We weren't popular because nobody wrote about us. Nobody wrote about us so we weren't popular.
But...
Back to the RPG. I'm kind of liking the potential of setting it in the Jihad. The current 'real-time-news-feed' feel of the current sourcebooks is fantastic for setting a sandbox style open-ended campaign. Kind of like a Succession Wars era event with more toys, less 'future canon' baggage and an irrevocably identifiable villain to blame if anything goes wrong.
The whole roll 2d6 and consult your stats thing is almost reminiscent of the old West End Games d6 system with less dice clattering around the table.
The whole roll 2d6 and consult your stats thing is almost reminiscent of the old West End Games d6 system with less dice clattering around the table.
And THAT my friends, is a TRUE thing of beauty.
As for the Wob I did not mean totals, but you proved my point. They have more forces then any one clan or great house. Sorry where the hell did it come from? I don't buy the well the FWL sold it all to us. No one builds up that kind of force in the IS without the houses finding out.
Clan is my main chosen faction but I just can't believe the IS is that incompetent. Someone somewhere would have seen something.
I will agree here. One thing to remember, with the jump to Dark Ages, someone had to go back and explain how thinks got that way. That causes some head scratching at time.
In general, I am fine with Serpent and Bulldog, but in my home universe I tend to ascribe greate losses to the IS. Bulldog had a lot of elite "former Star League" merc units representing the new Star League army. While losses, should be high, I can accept them kicking kitty butt with greater ease than a lot of the house militaries.
The Fedcom Civil War and the Chaos March take a toll on many experienced house and merc units as well. This sets up the WOB and WOB backed mercs to inflict considerable damage. They don't have the forces to fight a long term battle, but WMDs even that game.
Again, this is my take on the current storyline. I thinks that basics work, but some tweeking needs to be done.
@ Dies Irae
I have to agree with you about the FWL geeting no screen time (except as the occsional heavy).
Back in the day, I use to play Steiner and my regualer sparing buddy played Marik. It was fun and the history of our respective merc units grew out of those skirmish (and occsionally extended company level battles).
I will say my main issue with the current time line are 1: Clans not acting like clan, but IS with clan tech. 2 : tied to the goofy Dark age time line
But catalyst has done a hell of a job with the mess they got dealt all in all, The more I look at the new stuff it does intrigue me but It would have to be modified a bit.
I did get a kick out of finding out the dragoons got nuked. Made me smile
I will stand behind my hate of darkage, but talking on here has made me take another look at the jihad stuff. It can be salvaged and be a hell of a game it looks.
When I do play IS I tend toward merc's or the DC.I does warm my heart to see BT love on the forums however. Funny thing about that game is how you just pick a faction. You just kinda connect with one. And some times you can not say why you picked them or just what about your chosen faction calls to you, but there it is.
Since we are off topic kinda but it is RPG related so maybe not. What called you to your factions?
For me It was the logo at first. Sounds silly but I liked it. As more info came out With the horses use of Vee's the over use of Elemental(2/3rds of all starts are nova's} and just that clan's style of warfare and how they acted. How they saw things just really hit a code with me. Of all the clans they are the one I most wanted to role play. Nothing in the IS called to me like that. So I play a clanner mostly though shear flavor.I have a real pet peeve about folks who play the tech but do not play as clan.
@ Star Captain Johnathan Fletcher
Not to sound like a corporate shill, but give the Dark Age some time to develop and Catalyst to get some chance to bulk out the timeline slightly. With a bit more work I actually think it'll be quite serviceable.
Not all the Republic member worlds were given willingly (except Skye, but that was a bit of an underhanded move to get rid of the Lyran separatists), and in more than a few cases, the Republic had to take worlds by force. Kai Allard Liao gets killed by the Big Mac here.
The 'Great Disarmament' was apparently repackaged as a scaling back of 'Mech access amongst local and militia troops, putting the big stuff firmly back in the hands of the professional military. The proposed disarmament and confiscation of family machines leads to another surge in the Mercenary trade.
The IndustrialMech derby was left as the purview of private militia and separatist groups within the Republic of the Sphere (the equivalent of building Technicals) and the machines were phased out as fast as real BattleMechs were acquired.
The supposedly peaceful 'disarmed' Republic is revealed to still be operating BattleMech factories such as Tao MechWorks (Styk) and Irian BattleMechs Unlimited (Irian) and producing output though where the 'Mechs are going is unknown.
Apparently, the rest of the Inner Sphere has continued to produce military equipment at a reduced rate from the previous war-economy footing and have been engaging in cross border incidents since forever.
There was an entire 'Where is Devlin Stone' plot arc which traced the boggart back to the Blakists and the point that Stone is the new Messiah. The Wobblies have been hiding out in the shattered FWL.
The HPG Blackout was apparently a temporary thing (which the Republic of the Sphere, controlling Terra, is suspected to be party to) and people have started talking to each other again. One of the first proclamations to come over the net when it gets back up is the Fortress Republic declaration which only reinforces the chaos.
The Fortress Republic, created during at the end of the 'Dark Age' and the beginning of what is nicknamed the 'Age of the Destruction' has the Republic declare that it can no longer administer its world against aggression. It relinquishes control of everything except the immediate universal core which means ancestral worlds such as Achenar and Liao are suddenly again up for grabs.
WOOT! SUCCESSION WAR!
Cue Battletech Animated Series Theme.
As for the Clans, I guess the whole personal honor thing got old real fast.
With Katrina and Vlad making little wolf pups somewhere out there and Khan Marthe "Shoot-Your-'Brother'-In-The-Back" Pryde leading the Falcons, I'm not surprised in general that the Clans are slowly warming up to the Inner Sphere way of doing things.
Especially since in canon, the Inner Sphere way of doing things did kick them in the teeth.
Then again, the whole Ghost Bear/Combine War did end with a massive set of individual duels set to a planetary scale, so you can't say that ALL the Clan traditionalists are gone.
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I value my personal freedoms. I respect the need to abdicate those freedoms for the greater good, but not in blind worship like Liao and Kurita, in blind belief in the righteousness of a cause like the Davions and sure as all hell, not to a money-making corporation like the Steiners.
There was something perversely attractive about an anarchic polity comprised of member states which pretty much did their own thing, but banded together to beat the snot out of anyone who looked at them funny and the FWLM was originally presented as one of the premier Inner Sphere military forces when they could get their act together. In that sense, I've been a Marik since the beginning.
Don't let the Davions tell you otherwise but the Marik's have always been a fan of combined arms and other quirky tactics and a believer in mechanized infantry keeping pace with military assaults.
Then there was the little matter of the nasty little things Marik kept doing to their neighbors in return for being the universe's whipping boy that were utterly hilarious. Operation Dagger during the 4th Succession War where Marik kicked Liao while it was down on principle, the random Sarna March raids during 3039 which detoured into the Lyran half of the Fed Com and Cappellan space doing not so much damage as tweaking noses, the rumored electronic overrides supposedly wired into BattleMechs and kits the FWL produced and sold during the Clan War... the list goes on.
As for the Clans, I guess the whole personal honor thing got old real fast.
With Katrina and Vlad making little wolf pups somewhere out there and Khan Marthe "Shoot-Your-'Brother'-In-The-Back" Pryde leading the Falcons, I'm not surprised in general that the Clans are slowly warming up to the Inner Sphere way of doing things.
Especially since in canon, the Inner Sphere way of doing things did kick them in the teeth.
Then again, the whole Ghost Bear/Combine War did end with a massive set of individual duels set to a planetary scale, so you can't say that ALL the Clan traditionalists are gone.
Eh not only what I am talking about but, ya know with the Jihad where the hell are the rest of the clans? The wardens are dying to save the IS from evil..there it is. The crusaders are dying to wash away the evil of the corrupt IS..where are they?
Taking stupid pills as the DA time line calls for it. If I was to run a jihad game some things would change. Clans would not have some idiotic reaving war. Clans would act as they have been written to act before the Lord of all mary sue's got a hold of them for one. I mean there is much honor in killing wobbies And by Kerensky I want it!
Oh as an IS player did you think the fed come civil war was a bit over blown? Just wondering. Anyhow there is some hope they can brake away from the DA timeline now that WK is dead and clicky tech is gone...one can only hope
The Hells Horses and Snow Ravens did a Ghost Bear and packed up and moved to the Inner Sphere, the former wedging themselves between the Falcons and the Wolves, the latter forming an alliance with and eventually merging with the Outworld's Alliance. Meanwhile, the Diamond Sharks were abjured for the Mad Cat Mk II fiasco, which had them selling the design in bulk to various Inner Sphere military and paramilitary groups.
This leaves a good twenty plus worlds open to landgrabs by the various Clans. All you need to do is add Ice Hellions to the mix (and nobody likes the Ice Hellions) and you have a roaring little fire going.
Besides, with the traditional lag in communications across the Sphere (after all, the Phone Company has just attacked you), plus the communication gap between the homeworlds and the Inner Sphere itself, plus the departure of the Snow Raven navy and you effectively have a communication blackout.
Besides, I wouldn't go save the Inner Sphere if it meant I'd miss out on shooting at the Hellions.
As for MechWarrior Dark Age, we're already seeing more than a few canon immigrants slowly trickling in in TRO 3075 (Ocelot, Legionnaire, Jupiter, Cygnus, Ryoken, Crimson Hawk, Sun Cobra, Mongoose II, Saxon APC, Danai Support Vehicle, Condor Mk II Hovertank, JES Missile Carrier, MIT 23 MASH Vehicle, Tamerlane Strike Sled, Crow Scout VTOL, DI Morgan Assault Tank, Aurora Dropship, Clan Battle Armor, SM1 Tank Destroyer, Joust Light Tank). We're going to hit the Dark Age eventually. I trust Catalyst enough to give it a shot. Jihad's been one wild ride.
Yeah I will be changed a good part of the clan stuff. And anything and everything that leads to darkage. Still the Jihad while a bit silly looks like it could be fun. I have seen the 3075 TRO not really wild about it, bad art, alot of junk..the 2nd half with the age of war stuff however looked good.
Still the Jihad while a bit silly looks like it could be fun.
Awww... You're just saying that because it kills off a bunch of Stackpole's characters...
And the Hellions...
*TWITCH*
Especially the Hellions. *TWITCH* *TWITCH*
I take it you do not like the hellions. Anyhow It can be fun after I mod it a bit..It needs to kill more stackpole characters..And this stone guy I think shall die a martyr to the cause
Since we are off topic kinda but it is RPG related so maybe not. What called you to your factions?
A combination of factors really. While I am of German decent, I think it was actually Katrina Steiner's (the REAL Katrina) foresight. She was presented early on as a shrewed leader. She also tried to find a political solution to the succession wars. It didn't work, but she was one of the few to think outside of the "total conquest" box.
As to the FedCom civil war, yeah it was over done. The civil war could not be avoided since Katherine started to create a military force loyal to her. Still, I am not sure the level of destruction would have been there. I think a lot of military commanders would have questioned the war once it was revealed that she had her mother killed. Especially when the news is supported by respected people like Morgan Kell or Adam Steiner.
I've missed this thread due to work concerns, but I'm glad to see it's still on-going. Star Captain Neckbeard, I invite you to a Dark Age/Age Of Destruction campaign over at my house. I'm making lemon squares!
Also, thank you to the above poster for explaining Dark Ages and Age of Destruction as well as the events leading up to it from a long-time player(who doesn't hate Dark Ages, per se) point of view. Battletech/Mechwarrior has such a rich, rich history, it can be easy to forget what came before and how it ties into what's going on today and in the future. Thanks again, it was a wonderful read.
DARK AGES 4 LIFE!!!!! FOR THE REPUBLIC OF THE SPHERE!!!