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Pathfinder-compatible Book of Arcane Magic preview #5 of 5


Product Discussion


Welcome to the fifth and final preview of The Book of Arcane Magic: A Sourcebook for Bards, Sorcerers and Wizards! The Book of Arcane Magic is a Pathfinder Roleplaying Game compatible product that will release in August 2009 (less than a week!). This product features over 100 new arcane spells, new feats based on colleges of magic and bardic schools, new sorcerer bloodlines, new familiars and new magic items.

Today’s feature is from the Magic Items chapter and is a sneak peek at one of the new magic items you will find in The Book of Arcane Magic.

Ierena's Glamered Garter
Aura moderate illusion (glamer); CL 5th
Slot none; Price 20,000 gp; Weight
DESCRIPTION
At first, this item appears to be a simple pink silk garter of
a type worn by ladies. While the garter is worn, the wearer
can create illusory clothing of any type, size or style desired
– from the simplest of robes to the most risqué and daring
outfits. With only a moment’s thought (one swift action)
the wearer can change the appearance of the clothing.
The illusory clothing provides no protection from the
elements, nor does it provide any protection against weapons.
Only the use of a true seeing spell or other similar
magic reveals the truth of the clothing.

The creator of this item – Ierena Cherizyn – was a daring,
adventurous woman. Some say that she often went
about her daily business wearing nothing but a cloak and
her glamered garter.
CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, disguise self; Cost
10,000 gp

The Book of Arcane Magic is now available for pre-order through the 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming page on Indie Press Revolution’s web site, which can be found at https://www.indiepressrevolution.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16956& cat=287&page=1. On August 13, IPR will also make a PDF version of the book available, as well as a discounted print product + PDF bundle.

For more information, go to 4windsfantasygaming.com.

ABOUT 4 WINDS FANTASY GAMING
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming is a Great Falls, MT, USA-based roleplaying game publisher, formed in March 2009. The co-owners of the company, Connie & Robert Thomson, have over 40 years combined experience as gamers in tabletop roleplaying games and are using that experience to bring quality new material to the hobby. Connie & Robert have made their home in Great Falls, MT since May 2004. Connie is originally from McClusky, North Dakota and Robert is originally from Etowah, Tennessee.

The Book of Arcane Magic and associated text and art are © 2009 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming

Pathfinder and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC, and are used under license. See paizo.com/pathfinderRPG for more information on the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Isn't this overpriced by like a factor of at the very least 5, or more likely 10 or 20 times too expensive? A +1 glamered mithral shirt only costs 6500 gp and provides a +5 armor bonus as well as every function of this item.


Kvantum wrote:
Isn't this overpriced by like a factor of at the very least 5, or more likely 10 or 20 times too expensive? A +1 glamered mithral shirt only costs 6500 gp and provides a +5 armor bonus as well as every function of this item.

Yes, but the mithral shirt takes up an armor slot, whereas the glamered garter does not occupy a slot (which does increase the base cost), so with the spell level x caster level x 2000 gp = "X" for continuous effect, then double that for no slot occupied.

I agree that it is considerable more expensive than the +1 glamered mithral shirt, but it's also far more versatile, and much, much rarer.

Scarab Sages

hunter1828 wrote:

The illusory clothing provides no protection from the

elements, nor does it provide any protection against weapons.
Only the use of a true seeing spell or other similar
magic reveals the truth of the clothing.

The creator of this item – Ierena Cherizyn – was a daring,
adventurous woman. Some say that she often went
about her daily business wearing nothing but a cloak and
her glamered garter.

And she trusts her friends not to let loose with a targeted dispel magic at the most inopportune time? Bold indeed!

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
hunter1828 wrote:

I agree that it is considerable more expensive than the +1 glamered mithral shirt, but it's also far more versatile, and much, much rarer.

When did "rarity" ever enter into the construction prices of magic items in 3e D&D or now Pathfinder? "It's much, much rarer" has never been any justification for pricing an item at a higher rate, at least for its base construction price. Sure, of course you crank up the price if an item is hard to come by in a particular town, but for the base price? I mean, hey, whatever, but... well, to be blunt, it strikes me as the kind of inelegant design we saw in a lot of d20 products cranked out in the first year of 3e. Good ideas, somewhat lacking in deftness of execution.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

I agree with the pricing. This one just left me, well, meh.


Bracer of Armor +1 1k + Glamred 2700 = 3700.
3700 doubled for slotless = 7400.

More useful and MUCH cheaper. Nice story, but then pricing seems rather off.

Another way of pricing it and I see what you did.

Level 1 spell level 5 caster =(1*5*2000) 10k, slotless = 20k.

However there is no reason to cast this as a level 5 caster that I can tell without having seen the new rules. Why not make as Level 1 Spell level 1 caster = (1*1*2000) = 2K or slotless for 4k.


Kvantum wrote:


When did "rarity" ever enter into the construction prices of magic items in 3e D&D or now Pathfinder?

It doesn't, and in my breakdown of how we priced it I don't enter "rarity" as a factor in pricing. I only enter the actual factors as per the magic item creation charts.

The rarity comes into play because, at this price, how many of them would be floating around? Not very many, and thus it is, as I stated, "much, much rarer." There was no intention of using rarity as an excuse for the price nor a factor in the price. Rarity was mentioned only because an item that is less expensive is often (but not always) more common than an item that is more expensive.

Kvantum wrote:


it strikes me as the kind of inelegant design we saw in a lot of d20 products cranked out in the first year of 3e.

We hope that you will actually give our product a chance, and not base your entire opinion on one sneak preview item. We did put a lot of thought into the design, and we fully recognize the high cost of this item. We debated that very thing in the initial design before deciding to go with it as is.


Elyza wrote:


And she trusts her friends not to let loose with a targeted dispel magic at the most inopportune time? Bold indeed!

Very much so!


Matthew Morris wrote:
I agree with the pricing. This one just left me, well, meh.

We invite you to take a look at the book when it is released Thursday, and hope you do not judge it on the basis of one magic item.


Ughbash wrote:
Level 1 spell level 5 caster =(1*5*2000) 10k, slotless = 20k.

That is exactly what we did.

Ughbash wrote:

However there is no reason to cast this as a level 5 caster that I can tell without having seen the new rules. Why not make as Level 1 Spell level 1 caster = (1*1*2000) = 2K or slotless for 4k.

We actually came up with 5th Caster Level by cutting in half the caster level requirement for the Glamered armor special ability (Glamered is 10th caster level) by keeping in mind that most arcane casters who are going to create magic items usually (but not always) take the Craft Wondrous Item feat before the Craft Magic Arms & Armor feat (because it has a lower caster level prereq).

When I looked at the Glamered armor special ability and realized it was 10th CL, I knew we couldn't have this item at 40k (80k value). That would have been FAR too extreme a price, and half that cost/value is what we went with.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Odd, your link does not work.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

hunter1828 wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
I agree with the pricing. This one just left me, well, meh.
We invite you to take a look at the book when it is released Thursday, and hope you do not judge it on the basis of one magic item.

Check your orders, you'll see I'm not, just this item made me go 'meh' A hat of disguise does this better as well as the glamoured armor.

(Note: While likely not intended, I read the reply as confrontational, trying not to reply in kind)

The Exchange

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Tales Subscriber

Cool to see you support PFRPG. I like the item, too. It seems more like something an NPC would have than something a character would seek out, but there's nothing wrong with that.

Will the book be available on paizo.com? Is it print? Will it be at Gencon?


hunter1828 wrote:
Ughbash wrote:
Level 1 spell level 5 caster =(1*5*2000) 10k, slotless = 20k.

That is exactly what we did.

Ughbash wrote:

However there is no reason to cast this as a level 5 caster that I can tell without having seen the new rules. Why not make as Level 1 Spell level 1 caster = (1*1*2000) = 2K or slotless for 4k.

We actually came up with 5th Caster Level by cutting in half the caster level requirement for the Glamered armor special ability (Glamered is 10th caster level) by keeping in mind that most arcane casters who are going to create magic items usually (but not always) take the Craft Wondrous Item feat before the Craft Magic Arms & Armor feat (because it has a lower caster level prereq).

When I looked at the Glamered armor special ability and realized it was 10th CL, I knew we couldn't have this item at 40k (80k value). That would have been FAR too extreme a price, and half that cost/value is what we went with.

The point is however that the formula we both used would also work with the first level spell disguise self.

Also a caster can enchant an item at a lower level then they can take the feat at. After all a first level wand of Cure Light Wounds will require a 5th level caster to meet the requiremetn of Craft Wand Feat, however they are still usually found at caster level 1 (750 gold).

The item is effectively a slotless garter of Disguis self at will. The only reason, and not a very good one at that, to make the caster level higher then 1 would be to reduce the chance of a targeted dispel magic working on her.

I do see where you came from however in that the Glamered did specify a caster level of 10 as an armor enchantment. The point is it was not PRICED as a caster level 10 at will spell which obviously causes some consternation from people looking at the price of your custom item.


BluePigeon wrote:

Odd, your link does not work.

https://www.indiepressrevolution.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16956& cat=287&page=1

That's because it was missing an "h" at the beginning of the url coding. Sorry about that.


Matthew Morris wrote:

Check your orders, you'll see I'm not, just this item made me go 'meh' A hat of disguise does this better as well as the glamoured armor.

(Note: While likely not intended, I read the reply as confrontational, trying not to reply in kind)

Oh, not at all intended that way! Probably just from rushing through replies.

I hadn't check orders in a couple days, but I will now. We appreciate that!


janxious wrote:

Cool to see you support PFRPG. I like the item, too. It seems more like something an NPC would have than something a character would seek out, but there's nothing wrong with that.

Will the book be available on paizo.com? Is it print? Will it be at Gencon?

The PDF will be available through paizo.com, as well as through DriveThruRPG. The print product will be available through your FLGS (provided they use Indie Press Revolution as an order source) as well as through our store on IPR's web site (https://www.indiepressrevolution.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16956& cat=287&page=1), where it is already available for pre-order.

While we cannot be at GenCon, the IPR guys were going to take a few copies with them, so check the Indie Press Revolution booth.


Ughbash wrote:
The point is however that the formula we both used would also work with the first level spell disguise self.

Very true. I do not disagree with this at all.

Ughbash wrote:
Also a caster can enchant an item at a lower level then they can take the feat at. After all a first level wand of Cure Light Wounds will require a 5th level caster to meet the requiremetn of Craft Wand Feat, however they are still usually found at caster level 1 (750 gold).

Oh certainly! I understand exactly where you are coming from.

Ughbash wrote:
The item is effectively a slotless garter of Disguis self at will. The only reason, and not a very good one at that, to make the caster level higher then 1 would be to reduce the chance of a targeted dispel magic working on her.

I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one. I certainly understand your point of view, though.

Ughbash wrote:
I do see where you came from however in that the Glamered did specify a caster level of 10 as an armor enchantment. The point is it was not PRICED as a caster level 10 at will spell which obviously causes some consternation from people looking at the price of your custom item.

Very true. The 2700 gp cost of the glamered ability for armor is considerably lower than it would be if one attempted to use the item creation charts to glamer a suit of armor at 10th CL outside of the armor ability rules.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

hunter1828 wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:

Check your orders, you'll see I'm not, just this item made me go 'meh' A hat of disguise does this better as well as the glamoured armor.

(Note: While likely not intended, I read the reply as confrontational, trying not to reply in kind)

Oh, not at all intended that way! Probably just from rushing through replies.

I hadn't check orders in a couple days, but I will now. We appreciate that!

No problem. Just wish you'd previewed your fighter/mage base class so I could see in advance how it stacks up against my Arcane Legionary. I wanted to avoid the 'I take unintended offence, then you take unintended offence' thing that developes into an unintended furball.


Matthew Morris wrote:
No problem. Just wish you'd previewed your fighter/mage base class so I could see in advance how it stacks up against my Arcane Legionary. I wanted to avoid the 'I take unintended offence, then you take unintended offence' thing that developes into an unintended furball.

Hmmm... Are we talking about the same thing, because we don't have any classes - base or prestige - in this first book of ours.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

hunter1828 wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
No problem. Just wish you'd previewed your fighter/mage base class so I could see in advance how it stacks up against my Arcane Legionary. I wanted to avoid the 'I take unintended offence, then you take unintended offence' thing that developes into an unintended furball.
Hmmm... Are we talking about the same thing, because we don't have any classes - base or prestige - in this first book of ours.

No we aren't. I was wrong *hangs head in shame*

Now I'll have to buy your book as pennance ;-)


Matthew Morris wrote:
hunter1828 wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
No problem. Just wish you'd previewed your fighter/mage base class so I could see in advance how it stacks up against my Arcane Legionary. I wanted to avoid the 'I take unintended offence, then you take unintended offence' thing that developes into an unintended furball.
Hmmm... Are we talking about the same thing, because we don't have any classes - base or prestige - in this first book of ours.

No we aren't. I was wrong *hangs head in shame*

Now I'll have to buy your book as pennance ;-)

LOL! That's quite all right!

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