Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

Beefing up Kedward Bone in SoS


Savage Tide Adventure Path


My players have decided to whack Kedward bone. It is a sidequest...offered to them from the surviving members of The Portectorate. I am also going to use this encounter to divulge the location of the Wreck to them.

I am looking for suggestion on how to beef Kedward up to take on a 5 person PC party (Cleric/Saint, Wizard, Scout, Fighter/Dwarven Defender, Warblade). I think he should probably have allies with him, but I don't really want to use Yuan-ti again as my players have already fought them. His spells should probably also be beefed up somewhat...

Any good ideas?

Thanks in advance...


Par-a-dox wrote:

My players have decided to whack Kedward bone. It is a sidequest...offered to them from the surviving members of The Portectorate. I am also going to use this encounter to divulge the location of the Wreck to them.

I am looking for suggestion on how to beef Kedward up to take on a 5 person PC party (Cleric/Saint, Wizard, Scout, Fighter/Dwarven Defender, Warblade). I think he should probably have allies with him, but I don't really want to use Yuan-ti again as my players have already fought them. His spells should probably also be beefed up somewhat...

Any good ideas?

Thanks in advance...

well as he is a servant of Mammon a few bound devils for him to command would be appropriate. As he is the drug lord of Scuttleport he should be rich enough to hire plenty of protection and able to mobilise drug addicted slaves willing to fight on his behalf for a fix.

Also check out some of the spells in the Book of Vile Darkness, if my memory serves me right Wrack if particularly nasty and can take a character right out of combat.


First of all, replace the level of the fighter. That means he now gets 9th lvl spells. I would also recommend replacing all levels of Diabolist for a better prestige class. Sure, Diabolist gives you 10/10 spellcasting (the most important to a wizard), but aside from that, almost nothing useful. Diabolism is a joke (2d6 at those levels is ridiculoisly small amount of damage) and blasting itself is inferior to other spells a wizard has at his disposal. You should definitely read these topics:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=956548

They're excellent guides on playing wizards which will make Kedward a nightmare for your players should you choose to use it.

If you want to make Kedward a summoner, the logical choice is Conjurer/Master Specialist with feats Rapid Spell and Metamagic School Focus, which, in conjunction with Master Specialist's capstone ability would allow him to summon monsters as a swift action.

Throw in a few levels of Malconvoker, and it's a TPK waiting to happen. :D As written and with spell selection as suggested, Kedward is about CR 14, at best.

There are numerous builds and prestige class suggestions in the guides linked above, though.


Erevis Cale wrote:

If you want to make Kedward a summoner, the logical choice is Conjurer/Master Specialist with feats Rapid Spell and Metamagic School Focus, which, in conjunction with Master Specialist's capstone ability would allow him to summon monsters as a swift action.

Throw in a few levels of Malconvoker, and it's a TPK waiting to happen. :D As written and with spell selection as suggested, Kedward is about CR 14, at best.

Excellent suggestions, but do keep in mind that Metamagic School Focus is limited to dropping the level-adjust on only three spells per day. (Also, I don't know precisely what Kedward's alignment is, but I seem to recall that Malconvoker by RAW has to be of non-evil alignment.)


Kurukami wrote:


Excellent suggestions, but do keep in mind that Metamagic School Focus is limited to dropping the level-adjust on only three spells per day.

I know, I just forgot to mention it. :D

Quote:
(Also, I don't know precisely what Kedward's alignment is, but I seem to recall that Malconvoker by RAW has to be of non-evil alignment.)

Well, he's probably evil, but he's the DM, he can ignore the aligment based requirments, they're usually stupid anyway. ;)


Give him some backup - the action economy makes fights featuring a group vs a single caster a bit of an all-or-nothing proposition. Maybe a golem? Alchemical or brass, to fit with the drug/mammon vibe? Devils also a good idea, with the whole Mammon thing.

Legion devils en masse are a pretty nasty idea. The stacking effect of their special rules means that even at CR3 or whatever they are, they can be dangerous.

Agree about making him a full caster to get the 9th level spells. Would also be worth looking into Improved Counterspell and Reactive Counterspell, so he's got more chance of doing interesting offensive things on his turn rather than just defending himself. The Dire Scythe stuff is a big waste of feats, obviously enough.


Quote:
Would also be worth looking into Improved Counterspell and Reactive Counterspell, so he's got more chance of doing interesting offensive things on his turn rather than just defending himself.

This means he would be burning a lot of his 6th level slots on Greater Dispel Magic, which isn't a good idea. What he should do is, buy 2 Greater Rings of Counterspells and before combat cast Battlemagic Perception, giving him 3 counterspells free and of course the full property of the rings.

It's noted in the SoS that if the party should attack Scuttlecove, its factions would unite and try to oppose them. It is stated that Kedward would bring 4 Hamatula (Barbed Devils) Guadridans. When my party assaulted Kedward I did just that, but I also gave them full plate armor, giving them AC around 30. Good enough for mooks.


To me, the kedward's build has many flaws,
the +4 flaming burst dire scythe with the +4 icy burst dire scythe
and the poor +14/+9 to hit, a joke for any party.

so erevis cale gave a good suggestion to replace the level of fighter with another level of wizard.

we must cancel:
the exotic weapon prof scythe
two weapon defense
two weapon fighting
weapon focus (dire scythe)

now.. (imho) we have others useless feats, in ths SoS background
craft magic weapons (i have found a typo in SoS) and armors
craft woundrous item
craft wand
-----------------
And we know one thing:
Kedward Bone is, roleplaying speakin', a gish
and what is, in this case, the prestige class to gave a right fair of fight to the pcs?
Focused Specialist Wizard: Abjuration
Abjurant Champion and
Master Specialist for one feat: Craft Contingent Spell and Greater Dispel Magic

gave him one flaw, if your players use this rule, take the outsider feat from Fr.
gave him the focus for contingency (a little typo in SoS, i think).
Gave him a Scythe, to use with 2 hands. (and he can normally casts, by the rules)
Now le'ts convert one scythe for gp.. (and maybe the wand of invisibility, the potion of bull's strength, and the wand of dispel magic lol!)
And the xp with gp. (1 - 5 )

it'll be a hard fight. with buffed (see the major school esoterica) legion devils and alchemical golems (as suggested, because i like the concept)

ps: wrack is nasty. the 3.5 version is in the Spell Compendium.

Quote:
2 Greater Rings of Counterspells and before combat cast Battlemagic Perception

it's a good idea, but i dislike to use them, because..

once kedward bone is dead.. these rings are pc's property.
A pity for the next arcane or divine enemies.


Yeah, I think that Kedward's Dire Scythe stuff was designed assuming he'd cast tenser's transformation at first opportunity - that makes him an ok (if hp-deprived) melee combatant.

But seriously, if you want to design an NPC to fight in melee, why not just use a fighter?


Thanks guys! I took some of your advice.. and the PC's were terrified of Kedward and friends by round 2. The battles was epic! Thanks again!

Qadira RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Ooo - more details please!


Quote:

Yeah, I think that Kedward's Dire Scythe stuff was designed assuming he'd cast tenser's transformation at first opportunity - that makes him an ok (if hp-deprived) melee combatant.

Lol, no. Tenser's Transformation is an awful spell. It basically turns you into a fighter. But:

Without d10 HD
Without high con
Without high fort save
Without feats
Without proper gear

And a fighter even with all of the stuff above is really weak compared to a wizard, so why in the 9 hells would anyone want to become a really really subpar fighter?

If you want melee, try Body of War.


*shrug*

I didn't say it was smart, I just think it was the author's intention.

Besides, Paizo's generally preferred to use PHB spells for their NPCs for the main (saves page count and means that DMs without splatbooks can still run the module), and T'sT is probably the best wizard-melee spell in the PHB, barring Polymorph abuse that requires massive and complicated stat blocks...


Humble Minion wrote:

*shrug*

I didn't say it was smart, I just think it was the author's intention.

Bad intention, it is. That's what I noticed on multiple occasions during the course of AP. Aside from this, they have a habit of throwing encounters that just can't challenge the party - dozens of Scuttlecove Thugs in SoS, Vrocks and Hezrous in Into the Maw, and of course, Vantus, a CR 20 boss with 97 HP and non-existant saves. It's a serious laps on Paizo's account, they don't account for party being even mildly optimized (and I end up modifying almost every enocounter). I'm not sure whether they intended for some encounters to be cake-walks, or just aren't familiar with concept of optimization.


Humble Minion wrote:

Yeah, I think that Kedward's Dire Scythe stuff was designed assuming he'd cast tenser's transformation at first opportunity - that makes him an ok (if hp-deprived) melee combatant.

But seriously, if you want to design an NPC to fight in melee, why not just use a fighter?

probably, i think you are right.

for the question.. well.. because it's a pusher wizard with an imp, and with a taste for a melee combat. so, imho, to me it's a gish. ;)
even if he could be a a good summoner like a malconvoker, because of his "diabolic" flavour ;)

and i second carborundum post. more details please!!!!!!


Dark Roland wrote:
it'll be a hard fight. with buffed (see the major school esoterica) legion devils and alchemical golems (as suggested, because i like the concept)

What's so great about the abjuration major school esoterica? It's not as though all of the mooks would get protection from a single spell, or somesuch -- that would require the Chain Spell metamagic, which still wouldn't work with the esoterica given that it simply turns a personal spell into a touch-range spell or touch-emanation. Chain Spell specifically works on spells with a range greater than touch.

What buffs are you picturing as being fantastically more efficient here because of abjuration major school esoterica?


Quote:


What buffs are you picturing as being fantastically more efficient here because of abjuration major school esoterica?

Antimagic Field.


Erevis Cale wrote:
Quote:


What buffs are you picturing as being fantastically more efficient here because of abjuration major school esoterica?
Antimagic Field.

... OK, I can see that. : )

Shadow Lodge

Erevis Cale wrote:
they don't account for party being even mildly optimized (and I end up modifying almost every enocounter). I'm not sure whether they intended for some encounters to be cake-walks, or just aren't familiar with concept of optimization.

My impression is that encounters are always written that way. Optimizers are still the minority, if you're not aware.


That's why I said 'even mildly optimized'. Mild optimization doesn't require anything but a bit of common sense.

Even though optimizers are a minority, I'm sure that are even less players who'd play a wizard who spends 150 000 gp on a Dire Scythe. And then not even prepare combat spells.

There's a difference between unoptimized (an average player) and downright ridiculously underpowered NPC (Kedward).

I'm just saying that Kedward isn't a challenge for any group of players.

Shadow Lodge

Sure, if they have access to lots of splatbooks and expansions. But what of the DMs that limit their players to Core-only?

You can always make encounters harder. It's very difficult to make them easier. I get the impression that things like this are written for the baseline - Core only, or Core with only a few expansions - and if that's not enough for their groups DMs are encouraged to scale things up.

(That and we're getting into the Fighter thing... but I'd rather not jump into that pool of worms again. Bleh.)

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I've got absolutely nothing against optimization. One of my players even hung out on the CharOp boards on the WOTC forums for the longest time, and he was easily one of the better roleplayers in my gaming group and is sorely missed now that he's off in the military. I've lost count of the times I've gotten in arguments with "roleplay versus power elitists" as I've come to call them and fought until I was blue in the face to try and convince these people that having a powerful or well-designed character does not automatically make you a powergamer and having a weak or poorly-designed character does not automatically make you a good RPer.

From what I read of Kedward, yeah he could do with some redesigning, but for a group running purely on Core material he might still be a challenge, especially if they're a bit behind in level. Besides, as the OP said, this is intended to be a sidequest sort of thing - I have a feeling that the author in question didn't put a lot of time and focus into his statblock because he's not necessary to the main plotline.

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Older Products / Dungeon Magazine / Savage Tide Adventure Path / Beefing up Kedward Bone in SoS All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.