Director of Brand Strategy
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Seltyiel, Lawful Evil never looked as good.
He doesn't really get a capstone though. Sure he's got the capstone for the PrC, but not for either of the base classes.
mmm the last bit, the most important rule in the game?
Have fun? Rule 0?
Anyway the eldritch knight looks pretty cool, I also like that he is not picking up too much from his diverse training (like the evoker damage bonus). Looks like a lot of flavour for an iconic character type...
c'mon the 13th (well 14th here 'cos the rest of the world is so slow!)
I might missunderstand you... so...
But as far as I know, the Prestige classes will be in the core rulebook, as it is a combined PHB and DMG.
Erm...just a thought, if he requires a swift action every round in order to reduce his ASF, how is he going to use that capstone ability? It requires a swift action as well.
Erm...just a thought, if he requires a swift action every round in order to reduce his ASF, how is he going to use that capstone ability? It requires a swift action as well.
We don't know yet if this is still true in the final rules.
We don't know yet if this is still true in the final rules.
Er...we do know it's true. It says in the preview there that using the feat is a swift action and using the capstone ability is a swift action.
We don't know yet if this is still true in the final rules.Er...we do know it's true. It says in the preview there that using the feat is a swift action and using the capstone ability is a swift action.
Oops, I must have overlooked that about the feat then...
Well... he could simply not use the feat in favor of the capstone ability.
Or maybe the capstone ability is a free spell, and the 'swift' is a mishap? (as it says later on: "and a free spell (thanks to spell critical).")
Well... he could simply not use the feat in favor of the capstone ability.
Or maybe the capstone ability is a free spell, and the 'swift' is a mishap?
Yep I would take a 10% arcane failure for the ability to whack out a spell when you hit with a crit!
We don't know yet if this is still true in the final rules.Er...we do know it's true. It says in the preview there that using the feat is a swift action and using the capstone ability is a swift action.
Ok if you are attacking with the sword you don't need to use the feat, if you aren't attacking with the sword you are probably casting a spell which means you probably won't critical.
We don't know yet if this is still true in the final rules.Er...we do know it's true. It says in the preview there that using the feat is a swift action and using the capstone ability is a swift action.
Well, if Seltyel is attacking with his weapon, he obviously doesn't need to activate Arcane Armor Training for that round, so he still can use a swift action for activating Spell Critical.
It's true however that the spell cast with Spell Critical will suffer from Arcane Spell Failure, since the 10% from his Leather Armor cannot be lessened (since A.A.T. is not active for that round)...Maybe the best solution for an Eldritch Knight is still to be unarmored (or going unarmored when he reaches his capstone).
EDIT: hey, where were all those ninjas hiding ? True Internet's Shinobis, I must admit...
So, what spells are you Eldritch Knights-to-be planning on using for your critical hit combos?
Slow!
Seltyiel's got one *mean* critical, that's for sure.
AC could have been helped a bit, but I think that's mostly for sake of not having an realllllly long set of items + "must match picture" leather armor.
Decent CMD and such. Nice saves. Had to laugh at the +21 Perception (I think only one iconic *didn't* have a very solid Perception score).
I'd have expected a few more offensive self-boosts among the spells, but... he seems well setup to take out an army on his own. That's pretty much the gold standard for an Fi/Mu :) A demon shows up with a horde from the abyss - or I guess an Angel with a horde from Elysium for Seltyiel - he says "you guys deal with the Demon, I'll take the horde".
Edit: No kidding Wraith, I just took mine out :)
mmm the last bit, the most important rule in the game?
Have fun? Rule 0?
Those would be my guesses as well.
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Behold the evolution of not getting trounced...
Casting Defensively
If you want to cast a spell without provoking any attacks of opportunity, you must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the level of the spell you’re casting) to succeed. You lose the spell if you fail.
Casting Defensively: If you want to cast a spell without provoking any attacks of opportunity, you must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the level of the spell you’re casting) to succeed. You lose the spell if you fail.
To top it off, he has Spellbreaker (fighters only, once again), which allows him to take an attack of opportunity against foes that fail on their check to cast defensively.
So... Failing to cast defensively now causes loss of the spell, but does not incur AoOs unless an adjacent opponent has the Spellbreaker feat? Is that correct?
Behold the evolution of not getting trounced...
Casting Defensively
If you want to cast a spell without provoking any attacks of opportunity, you must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the level of the spell you’re casting) to succeed. You lose the spell if you fail.
Casting Defensively: If you want to cast a spell without provoking any attacks of opportunity, you must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the level of the spell you’re casting) to succeed. You lose the spell if you fail.To top it off, he has Spellbreaker (fighters only, once again), which allows him to take an attack of opportunity against foes that fail on their check to cast defensively.So... Failing to cast defensively now causes loss of the spell, but does not incur AoOs unless an adjacent opponent has the Spellbreaker feat? Is that correct?
Same now as in 3.x. Failure never provoked AoO you only lost the spell...unless the foe has the Spellbreaker feat.
We don't know yet if this is still true in the final rules.Er...we do know it's true. It says in the preview there that using the feat is a swift action and using the capstone ability is a swift action.
He only reduces ASF on rounds he casts a spell. So if he makes a melee attack then he doesn't use it. So his swift action is available if he scores a crit. The subsequent swift spell *would* face a 10% falure. (Unless it counts as a "still" spell)
It's not bad. Part of me cringes that he took more levels of fighter - I would have expected extra wizard levels for higher level magic, but he's got a decent trade-off there, since he's definitely a big fan of mixing it up in melee. It's actually a bit of a shame that the Eldritch Knight doesn't increase his Evoker damage bonus - at 20th level, an extra +2 damage is pretty much a drop in a very large bucket, and it doesn't seem like he gained any other benefit from the wizard-boost side of the EK ability. Perhaps there are some "minimum wizard level" feats that he just didn't take, but it'd have been nice to see one.
All in all, this is pretty nice, though. I've always been a fan of the Eldritch Knight - I like to make arcane gishes, so it's good to see the PrC got a bit of a bump but not too much. I still forsee lots of Mithral chainshirts with Twilight enhancement on them, but that's a no-brainer for anyone who's got access to it.
Hes got some cool tricks.
But with an AC of 25 and a +24 1d8+7 base attack, he is going to need them.
He is a wizard with the potential to make himself think he is a fighter, and turn into a corpse.
OTOH, Grasping Hand on the fighter, a well placed wall of force, and a dimension door into the area where he trapped the cleric or wizard and it is gonna be ugly.
Maybe I could do a Cartman and get myself frozen in ice til the book comes out! Now I just need to find Butters. Hmmmm....
You are assuming that someone will remember to thaw you out.
Hurray! A ring of regeneration isn't totally useless any more! (Although it's still probably overpriced.)
Hurray! A ring of regeneration isn't totally useless any more! (Although it's still probably overpriced.)
I was thinking the same thing.
It reminds me the good ol' time of AD&D 1st edition, when the ring of regeneration was doing the same thing, avoiding the wounding effect. Well, at least that was the way we were houseruling it in our group.On a different topic, even if it is not the appropriate thread, i hope Pathfinder will introduce a fighter/mage hybrid class, a "gish" of some sort, which would make possible a similar character, without multiclassing, even if i understand and agree that sometimes the multiclassing makes sense in RP terms...
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On a different topic, even if it is not the appropriate thread, i hope Pathfinder will introduce a fighter/mage hybrid class, a "gish" of some sort, which would make possible a similar character, without multiclassing, even if i understand and agree that sometimes the multiclassing makes sense in RP terms...
There's already one in the core rules. It's called 'bard'.
On a different topic, even if it is not the appropriate thread, i hope Pathfinder will introduce a fighter/mage hybrid class, a "gish" of some sort, which would make possible a similar character, without multiclassing, even if i understand and agree that sometimes the multiclassing makes sense in RP terms...There's already one in the core rules. It's called 'bard'.
I though that Bard was more of a Rogue/Sorcerer. :)
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So two questions,
1) If he is casting a ray spell and crits, does he get an extra spell?
2) more generally the diverse? training feat, what is the prereq on that? Like it sounds like my barbarian would enjoy a one level dip into fighter to take that, and then start qualifying for fighter only feats. Is there a max bonus, or do you just say "class X is now additive to your fighter levels?"
mmm the last bit, the most important rule in the game?
Have fun? Rule 0?
Spend ALL your money on Paizo Products? ;D
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I though that Bard was more of a Rogue/Sorcerer. :)
It's not that difficult to build a rather strong melee bard. The bard is a better skill monkey than the rogue but has neither sneak attack nor trapfinding. ALso, while the bard has spontaneous arcane spells, he has no bloodline. But that's probably better discussed in the bard thread.
So two questions,
1) If he is casting a ray spell and crits, does he get an extra spell?
2) more generally the diverse? training feat, what is the prereq on that? Like it sounds like my barbarian would enjoy a one level dip into fighter to take that, and then start qualifying for fighter only feats. Is there a max bonus, or do you just say "class X is now additive to your fighter levels?"
"Diverse Training" is a unique class ability of the Eldritch Knight.
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So two questions,
1) If he is casting a ray spell and crits, does he get an extra spell?
2) more generally the diverse? training feat, what is the prereq on that? Like it sounds like my barbarian would enjoy a one level dip into fighter to take that, and then start qualifying for fighter only feats. Is there a max bonus, or do you just say "class X is now additive to your fighter levels?"
I don't think Diverse training is a feat, I'm pretty sure it's a class feature that grants that ability, meaning twinky optimization of dipping one level of fighter and taking a feat to stack it is impossible, except with this specific PrC. Even then, that's a max of level 11th fighter feats with the PrC, which now isn't enough (unlike in 3.5 where that was all you needed)
EDIT: ARGH NINJA'D.
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"Diverse Training" is a unique class ability of the Eldritch Knight.So two questions,
1) If he is casting a ray spell and crits, does he get an extra spell?
2) more generally the diverse? training feat, what is the prereq on that? Like it sounds like my barbarian would enjoy a one level dip into fighter to take that, and then start qualifying for fighter only feats. Is there a max bonus, or do you just say "class X is now additive to your fighter levels?"
Ah that's much more reasonable
(*wipes munchkin drool off barb character sheet*)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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So two questions,
1) If he is casting a ray spell and crits, does he get an extra spell?
2) more generally the diverse? training feat, what is the prereq on that? Like it sounds like my barbarian would enjoy a one level dip into fighter to take that, and then start qualifying for fighter only feats. Is there a max bonus, or do you just say "class X is now additive to your fighter levels?"
Diverse training is an Eldrich Knight perk. Some of those high level fighter only feats rock the house though. I think a rod of still metamagic might be better for him (still hate metamagic rods though).
There's already one in the core rules. It's called 'bard'.I though that Bard was more of a Rogue/Sorcerer. :)
Actually it's more of a fighter/rogue/sorcerer who specializes on enchantment spells.
Actually it's more of a fighter/rogue/sorcerer who specializes on enchantment spells.There's already one in the core rules. It's called 'bard'.I though that Bard was more of a Rogue/Sorcerer. :)
And that never struck you as needlessly complicated?
I addressed this very problem close to 9 months ago, and it was obviously ignored, or not seen as a problem.
If you are playing your gish properly, you would have taken the (new) Arcane Strike feat, which I notice is neatly avoided in the posted build, even though this 20th-level melee character's melee damage is a pathetic 1d8+7.
If you're attacking, your swift action is sucked up by Arcane Strike. If you're casting, your swift action is sucked up to avoid arcane spell failure. So, if you're doing anything that you're supposed to be doing as a gish, then you'll never be able to use Eldritch Knight's capstone ability.
I am seriously disappointed nothing was done about this, as I am a huge fan of gish characters. I don't know why I'm not allowed to have a useful swift action because I decided to play an optimal gish.
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And that never struck you as needlessly complicated?Actually it's more of a fighter/rogue/sorcerer who specializes on enchantment spells.There's already one in the core rules. It's called 'bard'.I though that Bard was more of a Rogue/Sorcerer. :)
Maybe a bard is just a bard, and not any of the above?
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I addressed this very problem close to 9 months ago, and it was obviously ignored, or not seen as a problem.
If you are playing your gish properly, you would have taken the (new) Arcane Strike feat.
...
I am seriously disappointed nothing was done about this, as I am a huge fan of gish characters. I don't know why I'm not allowed to have a useful swift action because I decided to play an optimal gish.
Daron. Although the iconics are spiffy, they are not intended to be completely optimized. You see this as "a problem". They have a lot to do: look cool for advertising, showcase diffeent game rules, etc.
Whoever said that you, personally, aren't allowed a "useful" swift action? Take it; nobody's stopping you from playing the game the way you'd like to.
And, as an aside, there's an enormous difference between playing "properly" (your word) and optimally. I, for one, am not particularly interested in min-maxed character builds, and I still think I play the game "properly."
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Maybe a bard is just a bard, and not any of the above?And that never struck you as needlessly complicated?Actually it's more of a fighter/rogue/sorcerer who specializes on enchantment spells.There's already one in the core rules. It's called 'bard'.I though that Bard was more of a Rogue/Sorcerer. :)
This. And contrary to what Nale might think, a proper build bard will totally wipe the floor with a fighter/rogue/sorcerer.
I think using bracers of armor instead of wearing normal armor can "save" you a swift action. As someone mention above, this iconic build isn't the most optimal build, so feel free to build your own character.
I'm very happy that they seems to create a lot of "fighter only" feats.
If you are playing your gish properly, you would have taken the (new) Arcane Strike feat, which I notice is neatly avoided in the posted build, even though this 20th-level melee character's melee damage is a pathetic 1d8+7.
As opposed to a pathetic 1d8+12? Whoop de do. (I'm not very impressed by the Arcane Strike feat.)
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If you are playing your gish properly, you would have taken the (new) Arcane Strike feat, which I notice is neatly avoided in the posted build, even though this 20th-level melee character's melee damage is a pathetic 1d8+7.As opposed to a pathetic 1d8+13? Whoop de do. (I'm not very impressed by the Arcane Strike feat.)
Seriously, what this character needed was a keen scimitar instead of a keen longsword. 1d6 with a 15-20 crit rate and his crit feats is a much better use of his resources than arcane strike. Also second those who have him wearing no armor, then trade arcane armor training for quicken metamagic and have a few quicken shields on your character that way you get all of your swift critical goodness with no feats for providing minor bonuses.
However the previews aren't about how well we can optimize the build.
Hurray! A ring of regeneration isn't totally useless any more! (Although it's still probably overpriced.)
Not really. Yeah, it is only fast healing 1 (effectively), but it can be shared among the party to quickly recover from a major fight. At 90,000 gp this is a good party item purchase that is primarly worn by a front line combatant.
Hurray! A ring of regeneration isn't totally useless any more! (Although it's still probably overpriced.)Not really. Yeah, it is only fast healing 1 (effectively), but it can be shared among the party to quickly recover from a major fight.
For 90,000 gp, you could buy a Periapt of Wound Closure and 100 wands of Cure Light Wounds. That should be enough to stop bleeding damage and give you enough after-combat healing to choke a horse (and subsequently heal any choking damage).
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Hurray! A ring of regeneration isn't totally useless any more! (Although it's still probably overpriced.)Not really. Yeah, it is only fast healing 1 (effectively), but it can be shared among the party to quickly recover from a major fight. At 90,000 gp this is a good party item purchase that is primarly worn by a front line combatant.
A thought the ring of regeneration was one of those that had to attune for 24 hours before it kicked in?