I think there are absolutely other people running AoW, Armnaxis is in the Library of Last Resort and I think at least one other DM on the boards is as well. I am glad I waited until now as these boards were great with showing some potential adventure pitfalls!I just cleared up HoHR last week, and set the scene for TCB.
It's been a long chapter, but I've been using extra material from Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk, and I expanded the number and influence of Zyrxog's agents. I've also been strengthening the links between chapters, so they flow better, and anticipate the PC's likely decisions.
I second Werecorpse on that. This thread has become a "bring your own ideas to strenghten the plot" one, form its specifically TFoE start. It would be a good place to explain how you did expand HoHR, which is another weak ling in the Adventure Path (yes, that Raknian did hire a mind flayer killer to wipe out the PC's, just because they happened to slay/capture/thwart a friend of his, is quite a weak link).
PLease, we would be happy to know how you tweaked that (even if your choices are not compatible with our own campaigns, learning from others' experience is always a plus).
Moreover, I am too planning (in some years...) to expand HoHR/TCB with The Return of the Eight (so Tenser would still be dead in my books) and Expedition to the Ruins, and still not sure about the best way to do it.
My group has just finished TFoE.
As you may know Mr Faceless One steals and wears people's faces Hannibal Lecter style. He has two missions in Diamond Lake
1) Kick off the AoW
2) Set himself up as a divine being. Mad God's Key interlude.
He had achieved his goals in Diamond Lake and needed some scapegoats to clean up enter the PCs.
FO kills Smenk and wearing his face hires the PCs to enter Ragnolin's mine to kill everything down there. Promises a lot but will deliver nothing. Final battle in the Vecna maze the party is really put out to discover that what they thought was the FO is infact a Simulacrum.
After returning to the surface they discover that Ragnolin has done a runner and Smenk is dead and peeled.
Now the players are worried because FO/Smenk was asking a lot of personal questions and getting the answers "So your family live in Greyhawk do they?" and as a GM I think PC personal tragety is a great motivator.
Oh Smenk will absolutely try to take credit for hiring the party to root out the evil. :-)
I love that plot for the Faceless One Spacelard, I wish I could implement it but I already had a different background for him.
This Friday my party will fully explore the TFoE Temple, their first real knock down type fight of the campaign, I can't wait!
Thanks.
He has been peeling faces from day one, I thought he was too interesting a BBEG to let get killed off and Simulacrum seemed the most fitting. "Horay! We killed him! Oh....No!"Having him turn up at the wrong time just to twist the knife. FYI he has been going around Greyhawk spreading rumors that the party don't pay tavern bills, etc. and the group are having a hard time finding accomodation. The party Cleric visted his folks in Greyhawk only to be told that a nice man came to see them to say how sorry he was that their son had died...
Perhaps a fresh set of adventurers might go after the nasty bunch of evil people who disguise themselves as Clerics of Pelor and rob people...
That is great stuff. I plan on him getting away and reappearing in another adventure that I am placing into the AP. I have him as a prototype Warforged/Half Golem in the Realms. One of my players is a Warforged so they have a shared "father" so to speak. I see FO as a Frankenstein Monster type of character.
In my campaign his distinctive features are down do a run in with a Mask of the Devourer from Return to The Tomb of Horrors.
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can you expand on this- or have you posted it elsewhere (especially the Zyrxog's agent & link strengthening comment)
.......I've been using extra material from Expedition to the Ruins of Castle Greyhawk, and I expanded the number and influence of Zyrxog's agents. I've also been strengthening the links between chapters, so they flow better, and anticipate the PC's likely decisions.
I'm just getting my stuff together for tonight's game, lol.
But I'll be back.
Oh Smenk will absolutely try to take credit for hiring the party to root out the evil. :-)
I love that plot for the Faceless One Spacelard, I wish I could implement it but I already had a different background for him.
This Friday my party will fully explore the TFoE Temple, their first real knock down type fight of the campaign, I can't wait!
Thanks.
He has been peeling faces from day one, I thought he was too interesting a BBEG to let get killed off and Simulacrum seemed the most fitting. "Horay! We killed him! Oh....No!"Having him turn up at the wrong time just to twist the knife. FYI he has been going around Greyhawk spreading rumors that the party don't pay tavern bills, etc. and the group are having a hard time finding accomodation. The party Cleric visted his folks in Greyhawk only to be told that a nice man came to see them to say how sorry he was that their son had died...
Perhaps a fresh set of adventurers might go after the nasty bunch of evil people who disguise themselves as Clerics of Pelor and rob people...
I like some of the expansion of the use of the FO but as a warning from someone who went too far I suggest you dont have him hang around too long, the 'it wasn't him' or 'he got away again' can be a bit too much for players. I did that with a cool NPC in a campaign I ran once and after a few times the players just started calling him 'DMFNPC' (F standing for favourite) and they assumed he would just get away, turn out to be a simulacrum or come back somehow- so they felt a bit helpless to deal with him.
On the other hand I had a bad guy giant who escaped once, came back as an undead once and eventually his spirit possessed some plants who were destroyed. The players really enjoyed that particular 'continuing enemy'.
In my campaign the FO got away as well (w a simple dimension door). No need to get suicidal for every major baddie.
He's currently posing as the mayor living it large in his big mansion... but eventually the players will see through his guise (strange things happening) and confront him again. If not he'll have a free hand to do whatever he wants!
If I can keep him until the end of the campaign (not very likely I guess) I plan to have him make one final appearance as a Worm That Walks. Chosen of Kyuss sort of thing (I think it's fitting AND an epic character as well).
Oh Smenk will absolutely try to take credit for hiring the party to root out the evil. :-)
I love that plot for the Faceless One Spacelard, I wish I could implement it but I already had a different background for him.
This Friday my party will fully explore the TFoE Temple, their first real knock down type fight of the campaign, I can't wait!
Thanks.
He has been peeling faces from day one, I thought he was too interesting a BBEG to let get killed off and Simulacrum seemed the most fitting. "Horay! We killed him! Oh....No!"Having him turn up at the wrong time just to twist the knife. FYI he has been going around Greyhawk spreading rumors that the party don't pay tavern bills, etc. and the group are having a hard time finding accomodation. The party Cleric visted his folks in Greyhawk only to be told that a nice man came to see them to say how sorry he was that their son had died...
Perhaps a fresh set of adventurers might go after the nasty bunch of evil people who disguise themselves as Clerics of Pelor and rob people...I like some of the expansion of the use of the FO but as a warning from someone who went too far I suggest you dont have him hang around too long, the 'it wasn't him' or 'he got away again' can be a bit too much for players. I did that with a cool NPC in a campaign I ran once and after a few times the players just started calling him 'DMFNPC' (F standing for favourite) and they assumed he would just get away, turn out to be a simulacrum or come back somehow- so they felt a bit helpless to deal with him.
On the other hand I had a bad guy giant who escaped once, came back as an undead once and eventually his spirit possessed some plants who were destroyed. The players really enjoyed that particular 'continuing enemy'.
I've not got plans for him to turn up every week like Ming the Merciless but perhaps every third scenario I run he will have a guest appearance.
I recently finished up TFoE - I'm running the game in Eberron, and made the following tweaks to the Shadow/Vecna portion of the dungeon.
The maze portion I ran as a skill challenge - requiring three successes to find the center area. Each individual success meant they located a new area. Failures would result in traps/kenku ambushes. The primary challenge skill was Knowledge (dungeoneering), and I let the players come up with creative ways to "aid other" using skills and powers - some examples are Survival for tracking, Detect Secret Doors, etc.
I kept the kenku, but replaced the dire weasels with iron defenders (under the control of the kenku).
In the center area, everything remained pretty much the same for the cultists. I changed The Faceless One into a changeling (accounts for his changeling-esque appearance). In another twist, the party finds the rotted corpse of Ragnolin Dourstone in the supply room - TFO has been impersonating Dourstone for a few weeks, and was the one who brought in Smenk to provide supplies (to keep Dourstone's people in the dark about the "prohibited area" of the mine.
When the party slew the Ebon Aspect, the entire complex collapses in a localized earthquake - in the chaos, the group is able to escape unnoticed, and after Dourstone fails to reappear, he is assumed dead within the collapse.
Those changes helped me wrap up a few loose ends, and also keep the group from making the tripartite temple into a base of operations. ;)
Finished TFoE on Friday.
The ambush went according to plan the group surrendered once they realized the Psion was related to Theldrick.
heldrick threw the Priestess of Bhaal's body, a sword with FO's blood and cut his own hand and dripped blood into the pool to summon the Ebon Aspect. It of course freaked and attacked everyone.
In the melee about 5 of the CR 1 cultists died but so did the Ebon Aspect. Theldrick called a temporary truce and vacated the Temple (it was obvious he would beat the players but all of his henchmen would have been wasted to so he did not think it was worth it. Also the Psion is still in Thrall to him so why waste valuable resources?
I will probably have him reappear in the Champion's Games as I have him knowing Loris Raknian.
Looking forward to Blackwall Keep!
I am running the temple of Hextor on Wednesday. Does anyone have a monster cheat sheet and suggestions on how to run the temple? I did read the side bar but I would like to hear from people who have run it.
Jason
Interesting stuff. I'm incorporating many of the idea's on this thread. However I've got Newbs and I can't get to Machiavellian with them or they'll lose the plot completely.
One thing I did notice reading this thread is that there really is not alternative's to Smenk being considered in terms of getting the PCs into the mines in the first place. I really can't go down that route - just no chance my players would work for Smenk and actually following through with ideas of 'Smenk can bribe the authorities' turns the game into Law and Order.
For myself I'll probably have to go with something else - if I don't come up with something better then it'll have to be Alluster putting the various pieces together when he's shown the Green Worm. The idea being that he already knows the basic elements but is thinking of them as separate issues until he finds out that a Green Worm was actually nicked from the Dourstone Mine.
One idea that I had to get the characters ccurious about Dourstone was to have the PC's visit Dourstone Mine (whether to work for him maybe he posted a sign with good pay for foremen and workers or to negotiate prices on behalf of Greysmere Covenant (this actually did happen in my game though after the Smenk issue) and have them notice a large shipment of crates enter the mine proper. Perhaps have a hooded figure be seen carrying crates and have the hood slip a bit revealing horns beneath the hood and said hood is pulled back up very quickly.
That would make any PC's suspicious I would think.
In my campaign the reason for being involved with Smenk was because they messed up in dealing with Kullen's gang.
Hey Jason, I think that if I were to run it as is. I would beef one of the cultists up so he had shot on the run. Make sure he was on guard in the hall when the PC's entered, then have him take a shot and run into the arena. Essentially luring them into the trap as designed. If they went to the right hand side hall instead, I would attack them from both sides basically trapping them.
I think either tactic would make for a desperate fight for the PC's. If they are smart enough to attack with a Silence spell on and not alert other Temple denizens more poer to them but the complex is so small I am not sure PC's could accomplish that successfully.
Dennis
I should note that we have 6 players in the party. So far I have no found it necessary to beef up the encounters. Would you make any changes in this temple for 6 players?
Dennis
The party is
All 3rd level but will hit 4th before the final temple.
Transmuter, Fighter, Ranger (melee), Rouge (ranged), Cleric, Paladin.
I'm taking the main idea of this thread and having the Hextor temple the only option available with the other two and the well on the back side.
Hmm...looking more closely at this as I do my prep and it seems that the handout the players get in Filge's Laboratory mentions the Dourstone Mines explicitly. That's a pretty good hook right there.
Particularly if your running this as the PCs originally being adventures out of a great desire not to be anything else one might possibly become in Diamond Lake. I ran my PCs with this plot line and once they cleaned out the True Tomb informed them that they could either retire with enough money to be fairly comfortable for years to come or continue the life of a adventurers like from the stories you heard as a child. Of course I new the players would have their characters continue. In this case they are adventurers without a real adventure but they have this clue to one.
Further with this note we don't need Allusten to know about the location of the cult - Just that if one does happen to encounter a cult with a special interest in Kyuss Worms...well that's a bad sign. Its the players that know that there is a group with a very unhealthy obsession with Green Worms below the Dourstone Mines.
In fact as I read the intro to Three Faces of Evil it seems somewhat confusing that the fact that the players already have the info on the Dourstone Mine is not mentioned. I think the introduction for Three Faces of Evil was written without taking into account that the players have this key link. Probably Mike Mearls did not have that detail when he wrote this and it got missed in editing.
I did not have the Filge letter in the Observatory as I thought the existence of the letter did not make sense. I would think Smenk would be smart enough to pass the message along orally or ask for the letter to be burned.
If the letter is in the game though then good catch :-)
I suppose Smenk could have taken these precautions but they don't really help cover Smenk's tracks that much. To get the letter some one has to have already gotten Filge so Smenk's already got issues.
Otherwise the letter does not give away all that much - if one can show that 'S' (which is how its signed) is Smenk then it just shows that he knows that there is something going on below the Dourstone mine and wanted Filge to investigate it.
So far as anyone can really prove he's just a concerned citizen.
Sure everyone knows otherwise but its not about what everyone knows - its about what everyone can prove.
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In fact as I read the intro to Three Faces of Evil it seems somewhat confusing that the fact that the players already have the info on the Dourstone Mine is not mentioned. I think the introduction for Three Faces of Evil was written without taking into account that the players have this key link. Probably Mike Mearls did not have that detail when he wrote this and it got missed in editing.
If you go through the whole 12 issues, you'll find that happens a lot.
In the early days of 'Shackled City', there were some grumps complaining that a third of the mag was 'useless' to them, so there was some effort made to convince readers that they could use the material, even if they didn't have time or inclination to commit to the whole AP.
All the scenarios, despite being part of an AP, include options for being run as stand-alone scenarios, so the intros will often include background info for getting the PCs involved if they haven't played the previous chapters.
If you have played the previous chapters, then you know what happened. What you reading the intro for?
Add in the fact that the chapters were being written simultaneously, and you do get certain info being added to a chapter that the writer of the next chapter didn't allow for.
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I like some of the expansion of the use of the FO but as a warning from someone who went too far I suggest you dont have him hang around too long, the 'it wasn't him' or 'he got away again' can be a bit too much for players. I did that with a cool NPC in a campaign I ran once and after a few times the players just started calling him 'DMFNPC' (F standing for favourite) and they assumed he would just get away, turn out to be a simulacrum or come back somehow- so they felt a bit helpless to deal with him.
On the other hand I had a bad guy giant who escaped once, came back as an undead once and eventually his spirit possessed some plants who were destroyed. The players really enjoyed that particular 'continuing enemy'.
It's tempting to try to keep some NPCs alive, but it has to be planned, and run by the book (abilities and treasure in line with NPC level, only use in-character knowledge, have escape routes marked up on your map, usual tactics listed in the statblock), just in case a player calls you on it.
I find that the most innocuous nobodies can become the party's nemeses, almost by accident. The oh-so-vaunted Zyrxog went down like a sack of sh1t (admittedly 3 PCs have ridiculous Will saves), yet the kenku sorceror from 3FoE got away, to peck at their scabs for several chapters (and going strong!), being the one who warns Raknian, hires the Sodden Hold, and bags one of the PCs for impersonation by Ixiaxian (though that last one did have PC-collusion).
He greased up the stairs outside the Vrock trophy room, and was about to smash one of the cases, via mage hand, when a PC heard him and went skidding down the tunnel on her backside, almost into the gullet of the octopins, while the kenku screeched with laughter and tapdanced out the lair. Since then, just the mention of kenku has been enough to make them groan (EG; In 'Champion's Belt' - What's that team called? Chuko's Ravens? Oh nooo....).
And even a fleeting glimpse of Tirra is still enough to send one player purple with fury. much to the dismay of the PC who needs her help...
I agree with the rest of your analysis but here I disagree.
They where just wrong straight up IMO. I mean they have this warning for the DM that the big initial encounter is of high CR for the parties level which shows that there was belief that they may have taken things to far. We, of course, know that this is simply not true - in reality nearly no number of Lizard Folk where going to be a problem because a Party of this level will have jacked up their ACs beyond what the lizard folk can hit without something like a natural 20 and the spell casters will be able to dispatch packs of these guys with ease.
In reality they stretched the CR system beyond what it was reasonably meant to do and it started giving back particularly inaccurate information on what constituted a balanced encounter.
Hmm...looking more closely at this as I do my prep and it seems that the handout the players get in Filge's Laboratory mentions the Dourstone Mines explicitly. That's a pretty good hook right there.
Yep. As written the main hook is Smenk's letter, followed a week later if your fishes-PCs aren't interested in said main hook by an invitation from Smenk.
Further with this note we don't need Allusten to know about the location of the cult - Just that if one does happen to encounter a cult with a special interest in Kyuss Worms...well that's a bad sign. Its the players that know that there is a group with a very unhealthy obsession with Green Worms below the Dourstone Mines.
As rightly said earlier by Snorty, the Allustan miraculous insight is only meant to be used if TFoE is a one-shot. It's written as such in a very confusing way, but it's written (I had to read it twice even after the fact had been pointed to me).
In fact as I read the intro to Three Faces of Evil it seems somewhat confusing that the fact that the players already have the info on the Dourstone Mine is not mentioned. I think the introduction for Three Faces of Evil was written without taking into account that the players have this key link. Probably Mike Mearls did not have that detail when he wrote this and it got missed in editing.
Well, the existence of the letter is plainly stated on page 19, just under the titre "adventure hooks"...
Just for the record, note that the chronology in the adventure background is upside down : Vecna is supposed to have quoted the Ebon Triad (more than a millenia ago), Ebon Triad which is supposed to apppear in Alhaster only a century ago... Scrap this, unless you are fond of time paradoxes.
For my part, I removed the reference to Dourstone in Smenk's letter. In this way, my players know that something very wrong in going on in the depths of some mine, but have to work with Smenk to know which one. Matter of taste (DM's and players').
So far so good. Great session last evening. The PCs couldn't open the front door after dispatching the two guards. The lock opening failed and even trying to break it down ended up giving the defenders 5 minutes to get ready. When the PCs finally opened the front door, 8 Skellys, 9 Cultists, and 2 guards were waiting for them. It was a frenzy, and after killing the released dire boar the session ended.
I'm going over the caves of E and I'm a bit confused by the layout. I understand area 14 is the deep pit with spikes. I think I get that area 15 is the shelf and tunnel where the archers stand, with the barbarian at the end of that tunnel. A second tunnel, area 16 leads to the choakers and pile.
If I am standing in the pit (14) and looking dead on at what is ahead am I right to say one would see pure rock, except for the tunnel at ground level (16) and a small opening about 20 feet up and across (15)?
Well i want to use it as is, I just need clarification around what I was asking.
Jason
Well i want to use it as is, I just need clarification around what I was asking.
Jason
Can anyone comment on this?
So far so good. Great session last evening. The PCs couldn't open the front door after dispatching the two guards. The lock opening failed and even trying to break it down ended up giving the defenders 5 minutes to get ready. When the PCs finally opened the front door, 8 Skellys, 9 Cultists, and 2 guards were waiting for them. It was a frenzy, and after killing the released dire boar the session ended.
I'm going over the caves of E and I'm a bit confused by the layout. I understand area 14 is the deep pit with spikes. I think I get that area 15 is the shelf and tunnel where the archers stand, with the barbarian at the end of that tunnel. A second tunnel, area 16 leads to the choakers and pile.
If I am standing in the pit (14) and looking dead on at what is ahead am I right to say one would see pure rock, except for the tunnel at ground level (16) and a small opening about 20 feet up and across (15)?
Yes.
And a rogue who was hit with several arrows on the way down, fell unconcious and then started to fly like bricks don't. Bwhahahaha!In my game I had it as a 30' wide gap leading all the way back but only 5' high at the maximum for reachy-squeeze fun.
So far so good. Great session last evening. The PCs couldn't open the front door after dispatching the two guards. The lock opening failed and even trying to break it down ended up giving the defenders 5 minutes to get ready. When the PCs finally opened the front door, 8 Skellys, 9 Cultists, and 2 guards were waiting for them. It was a frenzy, and after killing the released dire boar the session ended.
I'm going over the caves of E and I'm a bit confused by the layout. I understand area 14 is the deep pit with spikes. I think I get that area 15 is the shelf and tunnel where the archers stand, with the barbarian at the end of that tunnel. A second tunnel, area 16 leads to the choakers and pile.
If I am standing in the pit (14) and looking dead on at what is ahead am I right to say one would see pure rock, except for the tunnel at ground level (16) and a small opening about 20 feet up and across (15)?
Yes.
And a rogue who was hit with several arrows on the way down, fell unconcious and then started to fly like bricks don't. Bwhahahaha!
In my game I had it as a 30' wide gap leading all the way back but only 5' high at the maximum for reachy-squeeze fun.
Ok so what is with the 3 iron spikes on the 15 shelf? They don't lead anywhere, why are they there?
Jason
From memory...So the Grimlocks can climb to the shelf or from the Krenshar area. Can't remember which now of the top of my head.
From memory...So the Grimlocks can climb to the shelf or from the Krenshar area. Can't remember which now of the top of my head.
The 3 spikes lead up to a solid rock ceiling. I see a "shelf" above that but how would they climb to it, wouldn't they be blocked at the top?
Looking at the map I would agree that they are blocked, maybe an amazing Climb roll would allow them to get around that lip.
Maybe the idea is that the grimlocks can grab those spikes and wait there.
So, if the PC's were to come down from area 18 across the bridge at 17 and then along the hall on 15 the grimlocks would be trapped on the ledge.
In the dark the grimlocks would be likely to sense the characters approach, hide up there and then drop back down after PC's turn around.
I don't see any other explanation in the module for the presence of those spikes though I may just be missing it :-)
Does anyone have stat blocks for the caves? The choakers, grims, ect?
Well, maybe August wasn't the best month to get input on my plot tweaks... Let's try September. <Bump>
You will find below a draft of the Faceless One's notes. I got rid of the coded message sent to Theldrick (the one which was supposedly a taunt, but weirdly included orders to kill Belabar) and replace it with notes written in the margin of a ledger containing daily measurements of arcane things such as « divine energy infusion level », « divine energy balance », « embryonic growth », etc. Entire pages can separate two paragraphs.
I came to life today, in this dark place. Then, the Master's Voice taught me my place in this world, and spoke of my role in the accomplishment of the Ninth Prophecy. He told me I have to forget the surface world, the trees and the sunlight, that these dreamlike memories weren't mine but would stay with me, and that he had taken away from me the face that wasn't mine too. Toiling on the Master's Great Work makes me happy. I hope to prove him my devotion by succeeding where the Ebon Triad project failed.
The preparatory rituals are done. My lifeforce is now linked to the Spawn. The womb left uncompleted by Vecna, then a simple lich, already wears his imprint. We only need to melt in the two other divine essences needed.
The Hextorians came, trickling down by small groups from the mine. They seemed pleased by the rooms prepared for them, and began at once the consecration of their temple. In accordance with the Master's plans, they mistook me for a servitor of the Maimed God and don't suspect my true alliegiances.
As foretold by the Master's Voice, the grimlocks came by the caverns. I presented myself as an emissary to their prophet, named Grallak Kur, and was welcomed as a divine messenger. Apparently, their complete collaboration was mine even before I spoke, as I appeared in the prophetic dreams that led Grallak Kur and his tribe to this place. This fanatic has even burnt his ships by provoking a cave-in. I have to laud the Master for the clever manipulation of...
Stupid posting error)
Am i right to assume the divine formulas replace the DC 40 decipher script note the PCs find in the temple of Hextor, and that the formulas are clearly readable?
The Faceless ones journals are found in the temple of Venca after clearing it out?
Am I correct?
I don't remember the DC 40 decipher script check. The note in the Temple of Hextor was written in some sort of Cipher by the Faceless One and given to Theldrick so he got answers but could not read them. The translation IS in the Temple of Vecna (I don't remember where it is referenced but it is there). I had it placed in FC's lab.
Ya
If you want to try and read it before you get the Cipher its a DC 40 script check.
<snip>
You are correct. I just dumped the idea of the Faceless One sending Theldrick coded instructions and taunts as meaningless.
In TFoE as written, you had a coded message in Hextor temple, almost impossible to decipher, and the corresponding cipher in the Faceless One belongings. So the PCs could only read it once they had visited both locations.
IMC, the PCs will find in the hidden laboratory a ledger with written notes in the margin containing the same information, with a lot of added twists. For exemple, I added some notes in both sources (Theldrick's diary and FO's notes) about the grimlocks assaulting the hextorian temple something like two weeks before, resulting in a "mexican standoff" situation, about Theldrick strongly asking for a punitive expedition to the grimlock's caves, and about the FO stalling for time, because he knows that Grallak Kur's or Theldrick's death could result in the Threefold spawn premature birth. It should nicely explain why they don't help each other to repulse the PC's assault...
I'm going over the caves of E and I'm a bit confused by the layout. I understand area 14 is the deep pit with spikes. I think I get that area 15 is the shelf and tunnel where the archers stand, with the barbarian at the end of that tunnel. A second tunnel, area 16 leads to the choakers and pile.If I am standing in the pit (14) and looking dead on at what is ahead am I right to say one would see pure rock, except for the tunnel at ground level (16) and a small opening about 20 feet up and across (15)?
I think the bottom of the pit (area #16) is the same width as the width of area #13. May 45 feet across - so its wide but in the middle the ceiling is only 5 feet high. Hence the name 'Horseshoe cavern'.
The twisty tunnel is Area #15 where the Barbarian hangs out. There is a shelf where the archers hang out 10 feet or so above the tunnel and the shelf traverses the whole of the cavern so its 45 feet long.
So if you have climbed down the pegs in the wall from area #13 and are now looking south (and have an amazing light source or Dark vision of 60' or some such) you can see the pile of rubble up against the far wall of area #17. You also note that the while the opening down here is wide (45 feet) its low, only 5 feet or so. Directly across from you but about 20 feet up is a small opening in the rock leading to a tunnel that appears to be about 5' feet tall and 5 feet wide (this is area #15).
Sorry to take so long to answer your question - I just finished the perspective map on this about 20 minutes ago, seems you a little ahead of me in this path.
Looking at the map I would agree that they are blocked, maybe an amazing Climb roll would allow them to get around that lip.
Maybe the idea is that the grimlocks can grab those spikes and wait there.
So, if the PC's were to come down from area 18 across the bridge at 17 and then along the hall on 15 the grimlocks would be trapped on the ledge.
In the dark the grimlocks would be likely to sense the characters approach, hide up there and then drop back down after PC's turn around.
I don't see any other explanation in the module for the presence of those spikes though I may just be missing it :-)
The spikes are for the Grimlocks to climb up to the shelf where the archers hang out. That said they must have an awesome climb ability to be able to grab the shelf - let go of the spikes with their feet - which means they are now hanging from the lip of the shelf by their fingertips basically and then they haul themselves up onto the shelf itself using upper body strength. That part kind of defies reason - I'd stick a gap in the shelf where the climbing spikes are so the Grimlocks could more realistically get up and down.
Speaking of spikes in the wall that defy reason. The spikes that lead from area #14 down the shaft to area #16...
Who the heck put them there and why? The Grimlocks cross from area #15 (according to the module) by coming over the rope bridge at area #17, traveling through the tunnel (area #15) climbing the spikes at the end of the tunnel up onto the shelf (area #14). They then throw a rope to area #13 where one of their compatriots ties the rope off and they cross on the rope (these guys should join a circus).
So what the heck are the spikes in the wall leading from area #16 to area #13 for? Its a goodwill gesture to help hungry Chokers trapped at the bottom of the cavern (area #16) sneak up on them when they are asleep? I mean even if they did make the spikes earlier (for what purpose?), prior to chasing the chokers down to the bottom of the pit why did they leave the ones near area #13 intact afterword? Why don't the Chokers try and use them to try and escape? Now its possible the Chokers don't use them because they fear the Grimlocks too much (maybe there used to be a lot more Chokers) but it does not make much sense from the Grimlocks to know that the Chokers are so scared of them they will never try and attack/escape via area #13.
I'm about to start the Venca section and the txt suggests adding a second monstrous centipede and a second aspect monster if your party is level 4-5. I have 6 PCs, all level 4. Do you think that following these suggestions will result in a TPK? So far I have not added anything to the rest of the encounters and some of them have still been challenging.
Jason
I'm about to start the Venca section and the txt suggests adding a second monstrous centipede and a second aspect monster if your party is level 4-5. I have 6 PCs, all level 4. Do you think that following these suggestions will result in a TPK? So far I have not added anything to the rest of the encounters and some of them have still been challenging.
Jason
Anyone?
lol
I'm about to start the Venca section and the txt suggests adding a second monstrous centipede and a second aspect monster if your party is level 4-5. I have 6 PCs, all level 4. Do you think that following these suggestions will result in a TPK? So far I have not added anything to the rest of the encounters and some of them have still been challenging.
Jason
Anyone?
lol
Didn't end up with a TPK with my group.