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Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

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*****

16 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

For "easy reference" or for those of you who feel that Point Buy Systems don't offer enough character diversity, I present the following 281 combinations of legal Pathfinder Society ability arrays.

Yes I like numbers. No I don't have too much time on my hands.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Using 18 as your highest primary stat:
.
.
.
.
18 18 8 7 7 7
18 17 12 7 7 7
18 17 10 8 7 7
18 17 9 9 7 7
18 17 8 8 8 7
18 17 8 7 7 7
18 16 14 7 7 7
18 16 13 8 7 7
18 16 12 9 7 7
18 16 11 10 7 7
18 16 11 8 8 7
18 16 10 9 8 7
18 16 9 9 9 7
18 16 9 8 8 8
18 15 14 9 7 7
18 15 13 11 7 7
18 15 13 9 8 7
18 15 12 12 7 7
18 15 12 10 8 7
18 15 12 9 9 7
18 15 12 8 8 8
18 15 11 11 8 7
18 15 11 10 9 7
18 15 11 9 8 8
18 15 10 10 10 7
18 15 10 10 8 8
18 15 10 9 9 8
18 15 9 9 9 9
18 14 14 11 7 7
18 14 14 9 8 7
18 14 13 13 7 7
18 14 13 11 8 7
18 14 13 10 9 7
18 14 13 9 8 8
18 14 12 12 8 7
18 14 12 11 9 7
18 14 12 10 10 7
18 14 12 10 8 8
18 14 12 9 9 8
18 14 11 11 10 7
18 14 11 11 8 8
18 14 11 10 9 8
18 14 11 9 9 9
18 14 10 10 10 8
18 14 10 10 9 9
18 13 13 13 8 7
18 13 13 12 9 7
18 13 13 11 10 7
18 13 13 11 8 8
18 13 13 10 9 8
18 13 13 9 9 9
18 13 12 12 10 7
18 13 12 12 8 8
18 13 12 11 11 7
18 13 12 11 9 8
18 13 12 10 10 8
18 13 12 10 9 9
18 13 11 11 10 8
18 13 11 11 9 9
18 13 11 10 10 9
18 13 10 10 10 10
18 12 12 12 11 7
18 12 12 12 9 8
18 12 12 11 10 8
18 12 12 11 9 9
18 12 12 10 10 9
18 12 11 11 11 8
18 12 11 11 10 9
18 12 11 10 10 10
18 11 11 11 11 9
18 11 11 11 10 10

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Using 17 as your highest primary stat:
.
.
.
.
17 17 13 9 7 7
17 17 12 10 7 7
17 17 12 8 8 7
17 17 11 11 7 7
17 17 11 9 8 7
17 17 10 10 8 7
17 17 10 9 9 7
17 17 10 8 8 8
17 17 9 9 8 8
17 16 15 8 7 7
17 16 14 10 7 7
17 16 14 8 8 7
17 16 13 12 7 7
17 16 13 10 8 7
17 16 13 9 9 7
17 16 13 8 8 8
17 16 12 11 8 7
17 16 12 10 9 7
17 16 12 9 8 8
17 16 11 11 9 7
17 16 11 10 10 7
17 16 11 10 8 8
17 16 11 9 9 8
17 16 10 10 9 8
17 16 10 9 9 9
17 15 15 11 7 7
17 15 15 9 8 7
17 15 14 13 7 7
17 15 14 11 8 7
17 15 14 10 9 7
17 15 14 9 8 8
17 15 13 13 8 7
17 15 13 12 9 7
17 15 13 11 10 7
17 15 13 11 8 8
17 15 13 10 9 8
17 15 13 9 9 9
17 15 12 12 10 7
17 15 12 12 8 8
17 15 12 11 11 7
17 15 12 11 9 8
17 15 12 10 10 8
17 15 12 10 9 9
17 15 11 11 10 8
17 15 11 11 9 9
17 15 11 10 10 9
17 15 10 10 10 10
17 14 14 14 7 7
17 14 14 13 8 7
17 14 14 12 9 7
17 14 14 11 10 7
17 14 14 11 8 8
17 14 14 10 9 8
17 14 14 9 9 9
17 14 13 13 10 7
17 14 13 13 8 8
17 14 13 12 11 7
17 14 13 12 9 8
17 14 13 11 10 8
17 14 13 11 9 9
17 14 13 10 10 9
17 14 12 12 12 7
17 14 12 12 10 8
17 14 12 12 9 9
17 14 12 11 11 8
17 14 12 11 10 9
17 14 12 10 10 10
17 14 11 11 11 9
17 14 11 11 10 10
17 13 13 13 12 7
17 13 13 13 10 8
17 13 13 13 9 9
17 13 13 12 11 8
17 13 13 12 10 9
17 13 13 11 11 9
17 13 13 11 10 10
17 13 12 12 12 8
17 13 12 12 11 9
17 13 12 12 10 10
17 13 12 11 11 10
17 13 11 11 11 11
17 12 12 12 12 9
17 12 12 12 11 10
17 12 12 11 11 11

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Using 16 as your highest primary stat:
.
.
.
.
16 16 16 8 7 7
16 16 15 11 7 7
16 16 15 9 8 7
16 16 14 13 7 7
16 16 14 11 8 7
16 16 14 10 9 7
16 16 14 9 8 8
16 16 13 13 8 7
16 16 13 12 9 7
16 16 13 11 10 7
16 16 13 11 8 8
16 16 13 10 9 8
16 16 13 9 9 9
16 16 12 12 10 7
16 16 12 12 8 8
16 16 12 11 11 7
16 16 12 11 9 8
16 16 12 10 10 8
16 16 12 10 9 9
16 16 11 11 10 8
16 16 11 11 9 9
16 16 11 10 10 9
16 16 10 10 10 10
16 15 15 12 8 7
16 15 15 11 9 7
16 15 15 10 10 7
16 15 15 10 8 8
16 15 15 9 9 8
16 15 14 13 9 7
16 15 14 12 10 7
16 15 14 12 8 8
16 15 14 11 11 7
16 15 14 11 9 8
16 15 14 10 10 8
16 15 14 10 9 9
16 15 13 13 11 7
16 15 13 13 9 8
16 15 13 12 12 7
16 15 13 12 10 8
16 15 13 12 9 9
16 15 13 11 11 8
16 15 13 11 10 9
16 15 13 10 10 10
16 15 12 12 11 8
16 15 12 12 10 9
16 15 12 11 11 9
16 15 12 11 10 10
16 15 11 11 11 10
16 14 14 14 9 7
16 14 14 13 11 7
16 14 14 13 9 8
16 14 14 12 12 7
16 14 14 12 10 8
16 14 14 12 9 9
16 14 14 11 11 8
16 14 14 11 10 9
16 14 14 10 10 10
16 14 13 13 13 7
16 14 13 13 11 8
16 14 13 13 10 9
16 14 13 12 12 8
16 14 13 12 11 9
16 14 13 12 10 10
16 14 13 11 11 10
16 14 12 12 12 9
16 14 12 12 11 10
16 14 12 11 11 11
16 13 13 13 13 8
16 13 13 13 12 9
16 13 13 13 11 10
16 13 13 12 12 10
16 13 13 12 11 11
16 13 12 12 12 11
16 12 12 12 12 12

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Using 15 as your highest primary stat:
.
.
.
.
15 15 15 15 7 7
15 15 15 14 8 7
15 15 15 13 10 7
15 15 15 13 8 8
15 15 15 12 11 7
15 15 15 12 9 8
15 15 15 11 10 8
15 15 15 11 9 9
15 15 15 10 10 9
15 15 14 14 10 7
15 15 14 14 8 8
15 15 14 13 12 7
15 15 14 13 10 8
15 15 14 13 9 9
15 15 14 12 11 8
15 15 14 12 10 9
15 15 14 11 11 9
15 15 14 11 10 10
15 15 13 13 12 8
15 15 13 13 11 9
15 15 13 13 10 10
15 15 13 12 12 9
15 15 13 12 11 10
15 15 13 11 11 11
15 15 12 12 12 10
15 15 12 12 11 11
15 14 14 14 12 7
15 14 14 14 10 8
15 14 14 14 9 9
15 14 14 13 12 8
15 14 14 13 11 9
15 14 14 13 10 10
15 14 14 12 12 9
15 14 14 12 11 10
15 14 14 11 11 11
15 14 13 13 13 9
15 14 13 13 12 10
15 14 13 13 11 11
15 14 13 12 12 11
15 14 12 12 12 12
15 13 13 13 13 11
15 13 13 13 12 12

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Using 14 as your highest primary stat:
.
.
.
.
14 14 14 14 12 8
14 14 14 14 11 9
14 14 14 14 10 10
14 14 14 13 13 9
14 14 14 13 12 10
14 14 14 13 11 11
14 14 14 12 12 11
14 14 13 13 13 11
14 14 13 13 12 12
14 13 13 13 13 13

Scarab Sages

Thanks for this list!

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Captain aka AZhobbit

wayyyy too much time on your hands

**

Wow those lists really freak out my Skype plugin for Firefox. :-)

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Grr.. somehow this one got in there:

18 17 8 7 7 7

That is not a correct score. That reduces the overall total number of arrays to 280.

****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Beautiful Kyle, beautiful.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Awesome! You just simplified my character creation tremendously.
M

*****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

*bump* from a year ago!

Grand Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales Subscriber

Kyle

Interesting posting. I tried to go one step further based on your math. No gurantee I'm correct - was a quick Excel I did on your numbers.

As we have 6 different stats, this allows for many more combinations. It is simplest for all Singletons. There are 28 combinations with 6 different values. This results in 6*5*4*3*2*1 = 720 possible stat combinations.

So doing similar math for the other combinations I get

Array/occurence/Stat Combinations/Total
All Singletons/28/720/20160
One Duplicate/107/360/38520
Two Duplicates/56/360/20160
One Triplicate/42/120/5040
Three Duplicates/8/90/720
Duplicate/Triplicate/23/60/1380
Quartett/11/30/330
Duplicate/Quartett/3/15/45
Quintett/2/6/12

86367 different legal stat combinations for PFS.

Thod

Dark Archive *

Could we possibly get an excel sheet or something with this? This is amazing.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Thod wrote:

Kyle

Interesting posting. I tried to go one step further based on your math. No gurantee I'm correct - was a quick Excel I did on your numbers.

As we have 6 different stats, this allows for many more combinations. It is simplest for all Singletons. There are 28 combinations with 6 different values. This results in 6*5*4*3*2*1 = 720 possible stat combinations.

So doing similar math for the other combinations I get

Array/occurence/Stat Combinations/Total
All Singletons/28/720/20160
One Duplicate/107/360/38520
Two Duplicates/56/360/20160
One Triplicate/42/120/5040
Three Duplicates/8/90/720
Duplicate/Triplicate/23/60/1380
Quartett/11/30/330
Duplicate/Quartett/3/15/45
Quintett/2/6/12

86367 different legal stat combinations for PFS.

Thod

Thod, the issue is that you need to only consider unique combinations. 17 16 14 10 7 7 is the same as 16 17 14 7 10 7

280 is the number of unique combinations that add up to exactly 20. You could also consider not spending all 20 points if you wished.

For an excel spreadsheet, just do this:

Copy/Paste the lists above into Word
Ctrl+H and replace " " with ^t
Select All, Copy/paste into Excel. Voila!

Grand Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales Subscriber
Kyle Baird wrote:


Thod, the issue is that you need to only consider unique combinations. 17 16 14 10 7 7 is the same as 16 17 14 7 10 7

280 is the number of unique combinations that add up to exactly 20. You could also consider not spending all 20 points if you wished.

Kyle

I'm aware of that. There are only 280 different combinations of absolute stats.

If you regard 17 16 14 10 7 7 and 16 17 14 7 10 7 the same depends. If my first value is Str, then Con, etc (not sure what the official order should be) then you get 360 combinations of 17 16 14 10 7 7 - or more genral - 360 combinations for each of you 280 stats that have a single duplicate stat.
I write 360 above as in principal you can have 720 - but half the combinations are redundant in this case.

It is a question how far you want to enumerate the combinations:

280 different stat combinations.
86367 combinations

The next step would be to combine this with the core classes.

And one step further you can multiply with the races.

If you want, add male/female to double the number.

Now you have all possible starting characters (awaiting equipment options for give even more choice).

Thod

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Thod wrote:
Stuff

Thod you're absolutely correct, except that the purpose of the stats I presented was to help people pick stats by deciding on the number they wanted for their best stat.

Your point was well made in regards to the diversity allowed by the 20 point buy system, although we should probably throw out any combinations with a 7 for Constitution. ;-)


I just want to say that you are both right, just in different ways. Kyle, you are right when people are assigning numbers to the stats in the order they want them, while Thod, you are right when people are generating stats randomly or if they are having to pick a list of numbers and assign them in the order written rather than getting to place them as they see fit.

Sovereign Court *

Hello,
So a 20 point buy system is used. I see there is a mention in the society rule book on page 13 saying that it uses such a creature, but does not explain how to use it.
Anyone want to share how the system works?

Scarab Sages *

piquwee wrote:
Hello, could someone point out where the rules are for the point buy system in Society play? I can't seem to find how this is done.

Ability score costs are on pg. 16 of the core rulebook. The rule on how many points to create a character is in the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play in chapter 4, step 2:abilities. That's pg 13 of my older version of the document(haven't printed the latest version due to no ink for my printer and no extra money in budget to get some). Hope this helps.

Scarab Sages *

the info is also available at this link on this site: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/gettingStarted.html#generating-a-charact er

Sovereign Court *

Ok, so 6 abilities at 10 = 60 +20 to mess with = 80

All of your number combinations do not add up to 80.

15 15 15 15 7 7= 74
18 18 8 7 7 7= 65

Why not 18 17 18 9 9 9= 80? for instance?

Grand Lodge **

piquwee wrote:
Ok, so 6 abilities at 10 = 60 +20 to mess with = 80

This isn't quite right, this will probably help it make sense.


piquwee wrote:

Ok, so 6 abilities at 10 = 60 +20 to mess with = 80

All of your number combinations do not add up to 80.

15 15 15 15 7 7= 74
18 18 8 7 7 7= 65

Why not 18 17 18 9 9 9= 80? for instance?

They do not add up to 80 because the point buy scale is not a one for one cost, but rather increases in cost in steps. Here is the chart in case you do not have the Core Book available to look at:

7: -4 points
8: -2 points
9: -1 points
10: no cost
11: +1 point
12: +2 points
13: +3 points
14: +5 points
15: +7 points
16: +10 points
17: +13 points
18: +17 points

You have 20 points total, not 80, to buy the stats you want.

Sovereign Court ****

To confuse you all lovely people a little more, there's more math behind the stat calculating issue!

The amount of points used to increase a stat by 1 is equal to the new stat's modifier (min 1). For example increasing from 17 to 18 needs 4 points (18 has +4 modifier).

Liberty's Edge

Since a few have asked for something, I figured since I threw it together for myself, might as well share in case someone else wants it.

http:// jstockmann.com /pfrpg/20_Point_Buys.xlsx

Wanted to keep out any bots, so just copy, paste, and remove the space before the "j" and after "com" and you'll be good to go. I may move change the link later when I have access to a shared space, but can't right now.

Thanks again Kyle for putting all that out there.

Liberty's Edge

Kyle, I am in awe. Ricky, many thanks for beating me to it.

***

Your crazy Kyle lol. <3 the list btw.

Shadow Lodge *****

Just a friendly bump for all of you building new characters post-Gen Con.

Grand Lodge

Bumping since the new PFS rules have been released.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Bump. ;-)

Dark Archive ****

So just to be clear, I cannot have all 13s for my ability scores?

Silly superstitious point buy system...

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You could, but that would only be an 18 point buy. I'm not aware of a rule stating you HAVE to use all 20 points..

*

Undead Lord has been banned from society. You can't keep raising this horse corpse.

Thx for the list. It's nice to see how many min/max suicidal options I have. I am sure that some point along the line someone took that wonderful 18 18 8 7 7 7 for a synthesis summoner.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, Alaska—Fairbanks aka Relmer

"18 11 11 11 10 10" has to the be the best one. There should be a challenge on the boards using it. Make a spellcasting character with that array, dropping the 18 in your casting stat, and see how long the character lasts.

*

Relmer wrote:
"18 11 11 11 10 10" has to the be the best one. There should be a challenge on the boards using it. Make a spellcasting character with that array, dropping the 18 in your casting stat, and see how long the character lasts.

NEW CHALLENGER:

Lab_Rat wrote:
Thx for the list. It's nice to see how many min/max suicidal options I have. I am sure that some point along the line someone took that wonderful 18 18 8 7 7 7 for a synthesis summoner.

18 8 18 7 7 7 down the line, play human and take

Dual Talent: Some humans are uniquely skilled at maximizing their natural gifts. These humans pick two ability scores and gain a +2 racial bonus in each of those scores. This racial trait replaces the +2 bonus to any one ability score, the bonus feat, and the skilled traits.

For:
STR 20
DEX 8
CON 20
INT 7
WIS 7
CHA 7
AM BARBARIAN!

The Exchange ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Amsterdam aka Seraphimpunk

now please create stats that mimic the number Pi please , or match the golden ratio

Liberty's Edge *****

Seraphimpunk wrote:
now please create stats that mimic the number Pi please , or match the golden ratio

I prefer the Fibonacci Sequence

The Exchange

Seraphimpunk wrote:
now please create stats that mimic the number Pi please , or match the golden ratio

I totally read that as "goblin ratio" which made me think of mathematician goblins.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Amsterdam aka Seraphimpunk

2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, might be the closest subset of fibonacci numbers, but you'd have to suffer permanent drain to a stat, and really boost one stat a lot. Maybe you can pick a significantly large # in the sequence as a stat block [ 10946, 17711 ] is close. 10 / 9 / 4/ 6/ 17/ 7 / 11. drop the lowest? =D

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Bump! ;-)

****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Kyle Baird wrote:
Bump! ;-)

So, I wonder how player stats compare to randomly picking a stat array...

94 combinations with 1 stat < 10 (33.6%)
92 combinations with 2 stats < 10 (32.9%)
39 combinations with 3 stats < 10 (13.9%)
7 combinations with 4 stats < 10 (2.5%)

Shadow Lodge *

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Someone needs to make a random pfs character generator which picks one of the valid spreads, class, race, faction, and perhaps core only traits/feats.

Or at least tables that one can roll on to ditermine their next PC.

Sovereign Court ***

These are all before you add racial bonuses right?

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

Dylos wrote:

Someone needs to make a random pfs character generator which picks one of the valid spreads, class, race, faction, and perhaps core only traits/feats.

Or at least tables that one can roll on to ditermine their next PC.

STATS:

1. Roll 2d6+6. This is one of your stats. Calculate remaining points. Repeat until you have 10 or fewer points left.
2. Find your points among the following:
• If you have 5+ points left, roll 2d4+7 for this stat.
• If you have 0 points left and this is your last stat, it's 10.
• If you have 0-1 points left and it's not your last stat, this stat is 8.
• If you have 1 point left and it's your last stat, it's 11.
• If you have 2-4 points left, this stat is a 12.
3. Repeat step 2 until you have all your stats. Verify your point total, and if it's off, raise or lower your lowest stat(s) to comply with 20pt buy.

RACE:
Roll d%.
01-40: Human
41-55: Half-elf
56-65: Dwarf
66-75: Halfling
76-85: Elf
86-95: Half-orc
96-00: Gnome

CLASS:
Roll d%.
01-05: Barbarian
06-20: Bard
21-30: Cleric
31-35: Druid
36-45: Fighter
46-50: Monk
51-55: Paladin
56-65: Ranger
66-75: Rogue
76-85: Sorcerer
86-00: Wizard

I advise against rolling randomly for feats and traits. Have fun!

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

1 person marked this as a favorite.

To try out what I just suggested...

STATS
2d6 + 6 ⇒ (6, 4) + 6 = 16
That's 10 points, which means I have 10 or fewer left, and 5+ left, so...
2d4 + 7 ⇒ (3, 4) + 7 = 14
Which leaves me with 5 points, therefore I repeat...
2d4 + 7 ⇒ (2, 3) + 7 = 12
Which leaves me with 3 points, therefore my 4th stat is a 12.
Which leaves me with 1 point and not looking at my last stat, which means this one's an 8.
Which leaves me with 3 points for my final stat, so it's a 12. Since I have a point left over, I adjust my lowest stat to compensate, changing the 8 to a 9.
This makes my final spread (before race) look like this: 16/14/12/12/12/9.

Now, race:
1d100 ⇒ 39
Human, by a hair.

Class:
1d100 ⇒ 87
And it's a wizard.

So I have a human wizard. Stats are probably thus:
STR 9
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 18 (racial bonus)
WIS 12
CHA 12

Seems solid!

Scarab Sages **

Gnomes get the short end of the stick when it comes to random race generation? =)

Shadow Lodge *

@Jiggy:What happened to Tiefling/Aasimar/Tengu in the racial rolling table?

@Kyle:Thanks for the list, and good job!

**** Star Voter 2014

rolls:

STATS:

Stats: 2d6 + 6 ⇒ (3, 1) + 6 = 10 0
Stats: 2d6 + 6 ⇒ (4, 5) + 6 = 15 7
Stats: 2d6 + 6 ⇒ (5, 4) + 6 = 15 7
Stats: 2d4 + 7 ⇒ (4, 4) + 7 = 15 7
9 (originally 8) raised to satisfy 20 point buy -1
10

RACE:
race: 1d100 ⇒ 22 Human

CLASS:
class: 1d100 ⇒ 89 Wizard

Jiggy, clearly this is a plot to make more human wizards
str 9
Dex 15
Con 15
Int 17 (racial bonus)
Wis 10
Cha 10

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