So I've been considering pre-ordering the Pathfinder RPG. But, before I do, I had a question on its compatibility with a few books. I apologize if this has been asked before :) How compatible is 3.X going to be with Pathfinder? Mostly thinking of some of the alternate classes ... like in Tome of Magic or the Heroes of Horror books. How much modification would be needed to use these classes?
So I've been considering pre-ordering the Pathfinder RPG. But, before I do, I had a question on its compatibility with a few books. I apologize if this has been asked before :) How compatible is 3.X going to be with Pathfinder? Mostly thinking of some of the alternate classes ... like in Tome of Magic or the Heroes of Horror books. How much modification would be needed to use these classes?
Casters that get 0-level spells will get them an unlimited times per day, and other than that, they should pretty much run the way they already do (although you should go with the way a given class ability that is defined in PFRPG works or if a spell on their spell list is from the core, it should work as its listed in the PFRPG.
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How compatible is 3.X going to be with Pathfinder?
Since one of the major design goals was 3.5e compatibility, it ought to be pretty compatible. Although the final rules aren't in our hands yet, our best indication is that "up-converting" classes should be pretty easy. Hit dice advance, skills consolidate, and few feats and sub-systems might have a tweaked mechanic, but most everything should be easy.
I think challenge is going to be splatbooks that introduced new rule sub-systems that don't mesh well with the OGL rules as presented in 3.5. Skill tricks from Complete Scoundrel come to mind, as do maneuvers from Tome of battle. I don't know how easy or difficult that stuff will be to convert to PFRPG and Paizo can't do it because they aren't OGL.
-Skeld
I honestly don't think skill tricks will be that big of a problem, given that you can still spend the same number of ranks on them in order to gain access to the trick. I would imagine the prerequisites will work just like the prerequisites from 3.5 PrCs do.
As far as ToB maneuvers, I don't think too many of those will be a big issue either. Even those that do things like allow you a free bull rush, for example, just have to be resolved via a CMB roll now instead of the old way. I'm sure there are a few I'm not calling to mind right now, but for the most part, I don't think its going to be too insurmountable.
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I honestly don't think skill tricks will be that big of a problem...
I don't think I communicated effectively. What I intended to convey was that we have examples for converting all the OGL sub-systems and other changes, but the non-OGL will be more of a challenge because there are no real examples and there probably won't be any "official" advice because that stuff isn't open content. Essentially, it will be up to the community to create and vet methods out and/or do the conversions. you're right though, skill tricks probably will be pretty easy; although skill consolidation might force you to play around with the requirements for various tricks.
-Skeld
I don't think I communicated effectively. What I intended to convey was that we have examples for converting all the OGL sub-systems and other changes, but the non-OGL will be more of a challenge because there are no real examples and there probably won't be any "official" advice because that stuff isn't open content. Essentially, it will be up to the community to create and vet methods out and/or do the conversions. you're right though, skill tricks probably will be pretty easy; although skill consolidation might force you to play around with the requirements for various tricks.-Skeld
Gotcha. I see what you're saying.
Well, from what we've seen in the beta, it's more or less like bringing over resources from the (non-saga) Star Wars d20. Sure, they're compatible in the way that they're both d20 but you'll still need to do some tweaking to port things from one book to another (ALL of the feats dependant on Turn Undead for example). Still, it's something that can be done, and something we do at our table (not with Star Wars mind you, but you know what I mean).
Different people mean different things by Compatibility.
If you are looking to update characters or other material to the Pathfinder system, it will take a couple of minutes, you'll be done soon and you won't even feel much like you've "changed" systems. There are changes, but I would characterize them as similar to the changes between 3.0 and 3.5. That is to say: slight — except where some notorious spells are concerned (and they fixed grapple).
I'm a GM and I don't even go as far as changing stats. I run 3.5 products and I don't even bother to "update" my statblocks. I still roll "Hide" for hiding NPCs, even though Pathfinder combined Hide and Move Silently into "Stealth". I let Pathfinder characters oppose 3.5 characters with their respective skills, and things work just fine.
For me, that is what "compatability" means: do I have to do more paperwork to make this book work with that book. In the case of Pathfinder, the answer has been "no." Although, I do max out enemy HP, but I did that before anyway.
Yeah, the 3.0 to 3.5 switch is probably a good comparison . . .
unless you are talking about a 3.0 adventure that based nearly every major NPCs tactics something changed from 3.0 to 3.5 . . .
Stupid City of the Spider Queen and your stupid haste monkey NPC caster villains . . .
Yeah, the 3.0 to 3.5 switch is probably a good comparison . . .
unless you are talking about a 3.0 adventure that based nearly every major NPCs tactics something changed from 3.0 to 3.5 . . .
Stupid City of the Spider Queen and your stupid haste monkey NPC caster villains . . .
hahahah
right on. But I don't think we're going to see anything like that from Pathfinder.
A legion of enemies tweaked for the new grapple rules would be in poor taste.
Plus, I think the new rule is identical at medium size anyway.
Excellent news :) Thanks for your insights everyone :) Looks like I may have to snag the Pathfinder game ... ;)
It'll vary from class to class. Quite a few classes will need a "boost" in order to be level in terms of power, but then again, some of those classes would need a boost anyway. For most casters, it's a case of changing hit-dice and unlimited cantrips.
A few though, such as the Artificer, may need a bit of an overhaul due to some changes. Though off the top of my head I can't think of that many classes that would require as big a change.
It seems to me that compatibility is very high... Higher, for example, than the 3.0-3.5 switch.
In our main campaign, a new player got introduced that's a Ranger7/Archivist1 (IIRC). I think they're using Heroes of Horror without any modification (except perhaps skill merging and possibly unlimited cantrips).
I've also run a few sessions of running a group of Pathfinder PCs through published 3.5 modules with on-the-fly conversion. It's really easy. Even rewriting key NPCs, most parts of the stat block don't change at all... mostly things like cantrips and domain powers.
I remember the 3.0 to 3.5 conversion as being a lot of work, since so many spells changed schools and levels. I had to convert my wizard character from a specialist transmuter to a specialist conjurer and completely redo his spellbook to keep him the same.
Some of that might be occurring with druids and transmuters in 3.5 to Pathfinder, but I doubt that it's as big as earlier transitions. You'll have to switch polymorph self to beast shape II, but that seems fairly trivial.