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The Infernal Syndrome (GM Reference)


Council of Thieves

101 to 150 of 153 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Paizo Employee Creative Director

Deidre Tiriel wrote:

I wasn't talking about the effects or the DCs.

The room should have a CR rating and XP for the players.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what CR the pool hazard and the mirror hazards are?

If you want to hand out XP for the room, it's best to tailor the XP for your party so that it makes up for other shortfalls. If you would rather have just a flat CR score, though, I would suggest assigning the whole room a CR 9 award overall.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Deidre Tiriel wrote:

I wasn't talking about the effects or the DCs.

The room should have a CR rating and XP for the players.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what CR the pool hazard and the mirror hazards are?

Dang. I don't know how I managed to mis-read your question. I actually read it twice because the answer seemed so obvious to me. My deepest apologies.

Osirion

No problem, and thanks James!

Grand Lodge

Maybe I'm missing something, but how does Joriavah's ranged +1 frost hand crossbow deal 2d4+7 + 1d4 + 1d6 cold?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Hsuperman wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something, but how does Joriavah's ranged +1 frost hand crossbow deal 2d4+7 + 1d4 + 1d6 cold?

A quick look makes me guess that Vital Strike was added twice and I'd remove the "plus 1d4."

Osirion

So my PCs killed Liebdaga. Who got exactly one attack, which he missed.

Because a PC decided to intimidate him (got a 40 - rolled 20) WITH the talisman, he didn't have a full action on his first turn. So, move action to burst out of the cage. Next round, Improved Vital Strike (no power attack) - miss.

The staggered condition really makes him a worthless opponent.

If I could do it over again I'd take away the staggered condition and give him more negative levels.

They were fully rested and ready to fight him, however. The bard recalled that he would come back, so they kept beating on him and his breath of life didn't have a chance.

Grand Lodge

Deidre Tiriel wrote:

So my PCs killed Liebdaga. Who got exactly one attack, which he missed.

I'm a bit worried about Liebdaga being a bit too weak for my party as well. So far, they've been able to tear through a lot of the Nessian Sprial without much problem; the lich, and the huge water elemental were a breeze for them. I'm worried that giving Liebdaga the staggered condition, and only being able to take full round action every other round, will make him insufficient for an appropriate challenge for my party. Did anyone else find that Liebdaga was too weak? Deidre, I may take your advice and take away the staggered condition and instead give him more negative levels (maybe 6 or 7, instead of the 5?).


Hsuperman wrote:
I'm a bit worried about Liebdaga being a bit too weak for my party as well.

I understand your concern. My party (consisting of 6 PCs) didn't have a hard time to eliminate the former duke of Hell, even though I re-engineered him. I took a standard pit fiend and gave him 5 negative levels (including the -10 penalty to each attribute score). I feared "the worst"... The PCs took him out in about average time, but he scored a power-attack vital critical hit and killed a ranger in an instant (full hp to below minus CON).

So, I had a relatively intriguing fight that was more fear-anticipated than hard, but caused a PC death to underline the deadliness of a devil of its appropriate damage-inflicting kind.

Be careful not to underestimate the damage-inflicting potential of Liebdaga.

Grand Lodge

Scharlata wrote:


Be careful not to underestimate the damage-inflicting potential of Liebdaga.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I think my group should be encountering Liebdaga in 2-3 sessions; they just met the Arkona rakshasa. Although, they still have not made any attempts to shut down any of the cooling chambers, but now that I think about it, they have no idea how or what to do. Are they suppose to come across information that you're suppose to stick the stygian keyrod into the appropriate slots in each of the cooling chambers?


Hsuperman wrote:
Are they suppose to come across information that you're suppose to stick the stygian keyrod into the appropriate slots in each of the cooling chambers?

Yepp, the mayor told them to "repair" the items in question. If you missed to "give" this information to the PCs be sure to make a handout with "instructions"... :)

Grand Lodge

So, random question... the bag of holding type IV hidden behind mirror #3 contains a significant amount of coins. Did anyone notice that the amount of coins (109,460 coins total) actually weighs 2,189.2 lbs (assuming 50 coins = 1 lb.)? Unless I did some calculation wrong or am missing something, this is actually impossible because a bag of holding Type IV can at most hold 1500 lbs of stuff. And, according to the description, "If a bag of holding is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag immediately ruptures and is ruined, and all contents are lost forever." What gives??


Some of you might be able to help me out. A couple of the players in my campaign decided to gather a number of vials and wineskins worth of Stygian water from the first cooling chamber. I suspect the rogue/assassin in the group will attempt to attach vials of the Stygian water to crossbow bolts to effectively splash opponents with the water (1 negative level) upon a successful hit.

Here is what I figure a dose of Stygian water looks like in game terms:
Stygian water; type: contact; save: Fort DC 15; onset: instant; frequency: 1/round; effect: 1 negative level; cure: 1 save.

Any suggestions on the price per dose? I'm thinking 200 to 300 gp maybe?

Thanks!


Rocinante wrote:
Stygian water; type: contact; save: Fort DC 15; onset: instant; frequency: 1/round; effect: 1 negative level; cure: 1 save.

Maybe make it "effect: 1 temporary negative level, duration 1 hour"...


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For those who are prepping this module, some findings that haven't been mentioned by other posters and were issues for me and/or my group. This is full of spoilers, so players shouldn't read! It's also full of issues I had (read 'gripes') which may or may not apply to the way you GM. I've been rather frustrated by #28 so far. Here's why.

lots of stuff:


  • Dungeon Timing: The party is likely to get to the dungeon within a couple of hours, but some of the monsters appear to have been working for weeks. I'd advise you to carefully read through the monsters in this book, decide what they've been doing when in your timeline, and sprinkle breadcrumbs for the players to find BEFOREHAND, with the idea that the party will only be delayed by the mayor and not too much else. The delaying sidequests are so unimportant at the moment that the party will likely ignore them. Note: the contingency plan for parties ignoring the explosion, mushroom clouds, and spirals of flame is pretty funny. If the party ignores those, they should take the first ship out of port and go farm somewhere.
  • Advance Setup: There's a an area description detailing how nobles have been kidnapped or burgled for the past 'few weeks,' yet there was no mention of this anywhere else. [P. 37, Joriavah] These would be good threads to introduce earlier, particularly if acquaintances of the PC's were involved, but I didn't notice these until the party was ready to enter the dungeon. By then, it was too late to add it. And I obsessively roll through all the books in advance cross-referencing NPC's and BBEG's to weave the AP together more tightly. This one is well hidden. Grrr.
  • Factions: There is a very nice writeup of the factions [pp 10-11] that should be reviewed carefully. It provides some setup RP opportunities if you work this in to the events of the previous books, or to sidequests. It's well done and darned handy!

I've had some issues with the dungeon itself, too.

  • DC's: Critical areas and items are located in secret areas. Some have very high Perception DC requirements [p 29, Nessian Spiral Features, secret doors are DC30 with critical areas and resources behind them]and are in areas where the PC's have no compelling reason to search. Others rely on the PC's failing saves or deciding to randomly vandalize an area [P 44, Hellscape Mirrors]. My party has failed Perception checks and made Will saves, thereby blitzing straight through to area F28 without finding any of the goodies that will make Liebdaga survivable. I stopped the session so I could revamp the containment area and give them some clue what to do.
  • Baffling design: The tiefling caretakers (tunnel rats) were put in the Spiral from the beginning, but their quarters are dug out and hidden by secret doors, as is the storage area. Why? Why is it so hard to find the tunnel rats when they should be there working all the time? P 32, F6 & P 36, F10.
  • Bloody fox in the dark: F6 is dark and has a low ceiling. Where does the image of Vheed - a normal human - stand? I made a corridor through the area normal-height and the rest squeezed. P 32, F6.
  • Damned long, curving 5' corridors: Don't put your encounters there. They're incredibly boring. Except maybe for Vheed (p 40), who needs to bottle up the attackers. He's toast in larger areas.
  • Pests: There are low CR monsters which add good flavor but are placed in tiny areas, making them really boring encounters. The scary-sounding capacitors in F14 are great visuals, but the lightning is not dangerous at all. The environmental hazards are too low-probability to be effective. I'd jack the percentage up to 50% each time a new area is entered.
  • Cooling towers: These might have been better with a 10' bridge rather than a circumfral (is that a word?) 5' walkway. The circular walkway allows them to flank and block the escape of any encountered bad guy who can't fly.
  • Timing: F13 can be run through without effect by characters with normal 30' movement. You can spice this up with some rearrangement and possibly difficult terrain to slow the party down. If your players miss the Stygian Keyrod at the beginning, they can double-move right through the cooling towers, missing encounters there unless you have (improbably) monsters with constant readied actions to spring up when they detect somebody.
  • Drawing: Lots of drawing, and you may as well do it in advance on paper, because there aren't many surprises in the long corridors of the engineworks. Doing this dungeon on a mat and having to erase between areas would have been annoying.

Be aware these are the problems, not my overall assessment of the book. The fluff is great. There's nothing like mushroom clouds and pillars of fire to get a party's attention! Lots of the detail and atmosphere is wonderful. Just review things carefully before running and listen to your gut - if something seems like it won't be fun, it probably won't. But it can be made that way with some consideration for your group.

I'm not a hater, I swear!


Treppa wrote:

For those who are prepping this module, some findings that haven't been mentioned by other posters and were issues for me and/or my group. This is full of spoilers, so players shouldn't read! It's also full of issues I had (read 'gripes') which may or may not apply to the way you GM. I've been rather frustrated by #28 so far. Here's why.

** spoiler omitted **...

I can certainly agree with you on most, if not all accounts. We came to a halt for the night yesterday just about to enter the plaza. My players were really keen on just busting in to see what was going on. I should have seen this coming, I suppose, but right there I realized that they would screw up the timeline if they did. Ah well... It turned out okay-ish in the end...


Treppa wrote:
... issues ...

I agree on some issues, too, mostly Advance Setup, caretakers, and "toast"). A little bit more attention would have been nice.

And, as you put it, the fluff is great.


I'm running this again tonight. Given the state of things in Japan, it doesn't feel right. We're in the middle of it and I hate to call things off for tonight. It's just....strange.

Taldor

i.e. you've run this already and you're running it again due to the state of things in Japan? is this in order to gain a different play experience under a different personal/real-world perspective or just due to some weird unexplained urge to do so?

Edit: there is a lot of talk about people who had "strangely coincidental" predictions lately... (go to link below --- scary stuff even for a fact-based engineering dude... :( )

http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/mike_strobel/2011/03/12/17593401. html


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

i.e. you've run this already and you're running it again due to the state of things in Japan? is this in order to gain a different play experience under a different personal/real-world perspective or just due to some weird unexplained urge to do so?

Edit: there is a lot of talk about people who had "strangely coincidental" predictions lately... (go to link below --- scary stuff even for a fact-based engineering dude... :( )

http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/mike_strobel/2011/03/12/17593401. html

Our party is in the midst of trying to shut down the engine. Coincidence? I don't think so....


Treppa wrote:
... Coincidence? I don't think so....

I do understand your feelings. Don't let hope die.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game Subscriber

My party has hit Infernal Syndrome and I am makin' the handouts.

First up: Liebdaga's Infernal Contract. (I riffed off of the infernal contract found in Princes of Darkness. )


sozin wrote:

My party has hit Infernal Syndrome and I am makin' the handouts.

First up: Liebdaga's Infernal Contract. (I riffed off of the infernal contract found in Princes of Darkness. )

Thank you so much for that. My PCs are just about to run into the mayor, and I am going to love handing this over to them.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
sozin wrote:

My party has hit Infernal Syndrome and I am makin' the handouts.

First up: Liebdaga's Infernal Contract. (I riffed off of the infernal contract found in Princes of Darkness. )

Great as always... Thank you again!

My party just finished What lies in dust last saturday and next week I will run the intermission you wrote. I think, we will spent a whole gaming night with that. And before I will close that session, I will let the manor explode... and then I will go on vacaction!

Man, I love cliffhanger! :o)

Andoran

Out of curiosity, is there a downside to signing Liebdaga's Contract? I know my PC's were extremely cautious to sign as they are afraid of the consequences. More than half of them would not sign it. That being said;

Spoiler:
What happens to those who did not sign, when the party reaches Signatory Vaccha? Does he only allow those that signed the contract to pass?


Baraccus wrote:

Out of curiosity, is there a downside to signing Liebdaga's Contract? I know my PC's were extremely cautious to sign as they are afraid of the consequences. More than half of them would not sign it. That being said;

** spoiler omitted **

Interesting question.

Spoiler:
The tiefling tunnel rats had no problem getting access where they needed to go, even though they were not signatories to the contract - nor is the librarian (I forget her name). However, it never indicates that the tieflings went any farther than Signatory Vacca's area. Only the mayor did that, to our knowledge.

You might want to make it annoying - not allow them to proceed. If they ask SV what would allow them to go further, say a valid contract of employment with any of the actual signatories. Irritating and a bit annoying to those who didn't sign, but it doesn't spoil the upcoming encounter.

And there's no obvious downside, particularly if they kill Liebdaga.


Hi, I am considering to move the mayor's house to the islands. This I will have more opportunities to delay the arrival of the players after the explosion. Boat traffic will be stopped by the river dottaris and falling debris, the players have to look for a very courages ferryman or steal a boat.
Is there any problem with changing Aberians Folly location?


Just ran the Leibdaga fight last night. Granted, my PCs are level 10, but thats only one above the reccomended level, and its a party of 3 (Mobility Fighter, Savage Barbarian, Court Bard) with one cohort (Magus), and I also completely removed the staggered vunerability from L.

My Party's Leibdaga fight:

Mobility fighter with admantine hammer made quick work of the cage, although it did do 30ish damage to the barbarian with a lucky grab/constrict. Bard kicked up Good Hope and Haste. Magus Cast Versatile Weapon and Bull's Strength.

Freebie round against L, barbarian hits for 20, bard casts Crushing Despair (unsuccessfully) and uses Satire. Magus holds back, casting Shocking Grasp. Fighter uses Ring of Spell Storing to cast Elemental Touch on his fist.

Leibdaga breaks free, dealing minor damage. I ruled breaking free was a free action, and Leibdaga takes his turn, using Wall of Fire as a circle radiating in, leaving only his four squares in the middle free of fire damage. Bard trips with Dueling Whip, high roll plus flanking and buffs = successful! Barbarian and fighter both hit and do damage, including a crit from the fighter. Crit deck draw is Rattled, 1d3 rounds of confusion. L fails save against both confusion and electricity effect from Elemental Touch, and is staggered. Magus moves in and smacks him, dealing significant damage.

Leibdaga attacks while prone with Vital Strike, fails to hit. Another barrage of attacks, most hit. Save against Elemental Touch fails again. Next round is a repeat, except L attacks the fighter. More hits back, and on fighter's turn, L dies.

L's soul revives him (his turn was after fighter) and puts him at 10hp. Leibdage casts defensively and drops fireball on self. All save, except magus who nat 1's and confirms a fumble (results in spell crit). Double damage puts him straight into the negatives, baking in the heat from the wall of fire.

Frantic counter attack re-kills L, while fighter moves to Magus with a potion (Magus is fighter's cohort, the son of the necromancer from Falcon's Hollow). Damage from barbarian is enough that L stays dead by exactly 1 hp. Barbarian shoves L's corpse out of the middle and group huddles there waiting for the wall of fire to drop. Magus gets healing at 1 hp from dead, due to Wall of Fire damage.

On the surface, the fight looked easy, because L never hit once. But his SLAs still did over 200 points of damage to the party, and the only reason the fight went as well as it did was a combinations of Magus knowledge checks to remind to buy Oil of Bless weapon and Silversheen, the bard's successful trip attempt, the Elemental Touch from the fighter and his confusion crit, and the barbarian's straight out higher damage dish out.


Overall, a very satisfying boss encounter. I do recommend removing the staggered weakness, if your party is good at working as a team.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Our group destroyed the cage, and then the sorceress cast Suggestion: "Let my minion Dismiss you and you can go free." (She has a *frightful* save on that.) A couple of seconds later the cleric cast Dismissal--end of fight. The GM was surprised....

The PCs were pretty pleased initially, but they are now wondering where he went (there is a 20% chance of going to the wrong place) and what he's going to do next. He has, they feel, quite a legitimate beef against Westcrown. While it would be nice if he owed them a favor, they really don't expect he will.

For us--playing this module way out of order, with a very different lead-in--the first half went really well, but the second half, after the cooling towers, was problematic. The PCs believed they were racing against time to stop the Folly from exploding. As a result they did not look into side issues, and missed almost all the treasure, and all of the riddle clues, and the backstory.

You can make a good adventure out of a frantic race against the clock, or out of a deliberate CSI-style investigation of a mystery. I felt that this module tried to split the difference, and that gives pacing problems. The PCs really wanted to stop and read things, but could not justify doing so. Now that it's over, they're frustrated and sad at the loss of information, as well as stung by the loss of treasure (they are committed to finding Aberian a new house, and that's going to be pricy!)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game Subscriber

Wow, my party has spent six months in Infernal Syndrome and are about to face Liebdaga tonight. (We only play 1x/month ... adults with jobs/families/responsibilities.) After reading through the various posts about Liebdaga I'm definitely going to remove the staggered condition, give him some additional hitpoints, and have him and the cage in combat at the same time.

Fingers crossed this BBEG isn't a big let down!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game Subscriber

It wasn't a letdown. The party had a blast and it was a tough fight, as expected. Definitely recommend removing the talisman of the twin/staggered condition completely.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

We completed this chapter with my players on Sunday. As they made their way through he spiral, they got their butts handed to them by Zovarue. All were petrified. Fortunately, one of them had accepted a profane gift from Joriavah earlier and she didn't want to lose her investment so quickly. Her gift recipient awoke to find his companions still petrified, Zovarue dismembered, and Joriavah pumping him for information about his contacts and friends - including the Guardians [Children] of Westcrown. After a day and a half of this, him dominated the whole time, she unpetrified the rest of the party.

The PCs had learned from Signatory Vaccha that, if they wanted to shut down the engine and defeat Liebdaga, they were well advised not just to do it but overdo it. So they retreated from the spiral to reequip with the proceeds from the exploration so far. Armed with some more silver and adamantine gear and a wand of lightning bolts at 10th level for the witch, they returned to the fight.

They smashed the cage and piled it on Liebdaga. He lasted a few rounds because nearly everybody's dice went totally cold for a while. Liebdaga's attempt to shred the only character who hit him initially, the ranger whose favored enemy is evil outsiders, ended up with ALL attacks missing (I don't believe I rolled over 10 on my dice). The only player whose dice were rocking was the witch. Two of 3 blasts with the wand succeeded in overcoming his SR and the first one, the one in which my save failed, came up with a lot of 6s.

Once he went down, they followed Signatory Vaccha's advice and kept chopping and stabbing at him. The poor breath of life power simply couldn't keep up.

Nyxervex, Isavenda, and Zovarue all gave the party much more trouble than Liebdaga. And I'm OK with that. They had, effectively, a re-equipment montage in preparation for the big fight and that makes quite a difference...


So one of my players accepted the profane gift from the succubus, anyone have any stories of what they had the succubus do? Looking for some fun ways to torment the characters with this.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

I tried adding the the new Plot twist cards Flashbacks. I took the Staggered condition from Liebdaga and added a spell like ability to cast cone of fire. He still died in 5 rounds thanks to 1 player rolling 4 nat 20s that all confirmed. He then used a card fron from the plot twist decks that gave him a nat 20 anyway and low and behold they had killed liebdaga twice in 8 rounds. I knocked a cohort into negs once but I hurt them all badly. If I had 3 more rounds I would have had my first party deaths. I am fairly positive that the Alchemist his cohort and the Wizard would have died, but the Ranger may have been toasted or deep fried but would have lived, and the Barbarian could have lived but no gauranteee. I had a great time with this one and I believe most of the players did as well. Thank you Paizo for publishing this and thank you Clinton Boomer and James Jacobs for writing this.

Have a great day my fellow forum members and many great games in your future.


Getting ready to move our campaign into this one. In my preparation, I had a revelation: The mayors were supposed to be able to easily get to F31 (Vaccha and the crystal ball) & F32 (Zovarue & the research library). How did they get past F28 (the achaierais), F29 (the behir), and F30 (the burning guardian)? Getting past the gargoyles at F25 is easy enough, as the mayor would just not sit down to eat (since they only attack if the DC15 Will save is missed upon eating). F27 is avoided by just not looking at the mirrors and gold.

I'm considering moving F31 and F32 to before F28 to have it make logical sense. (My group tends to notice holes like this and start down rabbit holes of research and discussion to figure things out, and I'd rather avoid them wasting their time.)

Anyone else think about this? Have any thoughts/concerns?

Any assistance is greatly appreciated!


Russ Luzetski wrote:

Getting ready to move our campaign into this one. In my preparation, I had a revelation: The mayors were supposed to be able to easily get to F31 (Vaccha and the crystal ball) & F32 (Zovarue & the research library). How did they get past F28 (the achaierais), F29 (the behir), and F30 (the burning guardian)? Getting past the gargoyles at F25 is easy enough, as the mayor would just not sit down to eat (since they only attack if the DC15 Will save is missed upon eating). F27 is avoided by just not looking at the mirrors and gold.

I'm considering moving F31 and F32 to before F28 to have it make logical sense. (My group tends to notice holes like this and start down rabbit holes of research and discussion to figure things out, and I'd rather avoid them wasting their time.)

Anyone else think about this? Have any thoughts/concerns?

Any assistance is greatly appreciated!

I had it so that anyone who was displaying the mayoral necklace or whatever it was that the shade of Dargentu had was not accosted by anything in those rooms. That also helps to explain why the mayor always went alone to those sections of the complex.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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The dungeon "today" (as it is presented in the adventure) is very different than the dungeon "back in the day." If your players start wondering how previous mayors could navigate the dungeon... smile cryptically as if to say, "hmmm... almost as if the current mayor never came down here and over the past many years things have started going strange... perhaps there's something unusual happening within the infernal engine itself?"

AKA: The adventure had to be a finite number of pages, and spending words on talking about how the dungeon worked back in the early days wasn't a luxury I had. But even then... a lot of the manipulation and work on the dungeon could be done via the Asmodean Knot.

Furthermore... previous mayors of Westcrown were all pretty high level. I suspect that they didn't have much of a problem dealing with some of the guardians... and in fact, some of those guardians were probably quite afraid of and subservient to those mayors...

(WARNING: It's been years since I've had my head in this adventure's space, so hopefully I'm not misremembering anything...)


Greatly appreciate the responses! Your response, James, gives me some ideas of ways to keep things the same while letting them get the information on how things are different. Many thanks!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Westcrown must have something in place for who takes over if something happens to a mayor, right? Is there a deputy mayor, for example?

I haven't seen any description of the electoral process. Somehow Westcrown doesn't feel completely democratic to me, though it may have been back in the days before Aroden's death I suppose. Do the twelve major families decide who will be the next mayor, normally?


On page 50 of BoE it says that Arvanxi was made mayor be the queen as a way to exile him from Egorian. So the new mayor could be anyone the queen either favours or wants out of the way.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I hadn't thought of it that way. Thank-you!

Okay, so probably he could have appointed a deputy mayor, but he never bothered. He likely would have had to submit his appointee's name to Egorian, and he was too afraid of Abrogail Two to ever feel it was worthwhile.

I can work with this.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
tbug wrote:

I hadn't thought of it that way. Thank-you!

Okay, so probably he could have appointed a deputy mayor, but he never bothered. He likely would have had to submit his appointee's name to Egorian, and he was too afraid of Abrogail Two to ever feel it was worthwhile.

I can work with this.

He may also rely on other high nobles to get things done (one of the benefit of being nobles). But a lot of them are tied up, compromised, or even dead as the AP continues on exacerbating the power vacuum.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

True. In particular, he has three noble families subservient to House Arvanxi he can use as resources. It's where he got his majordomo after all (though that didn't work out particularly well for him).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

This has no canon support, but in our game when things looked politically unstable in Westcrown, Egorian first appointed a deputy mayor and then named a small group to put forward a candidate for mayor. Abrogail really doesn't care much who's mayor of Westcrown, and is politically savvy enough to want the people on the ground to pick (so that she can scapegoat them if it goes wrong, I suppose).

Her small group was Vacindo Dravinje, Ertein Aberigo, and Lily Varuna (the lead PC). Lily managed to convince Vacindo and Ertein that neither of them wanted the other as mayor, and there was no obvious candidate outside that room (Lily mentioned the High Priest of Asmodeus but that didn't fly, as she knew it wouldn't). So Lily ended up as Mayor of Westcrown.

A subtheme throughout the negotiations with Egorian was the fact that Lily is not willing to sell her soul to prove her loyalty. But you don't want to show Egorian that you have scruples.... It was fun, for nerve-wracking values of fun.

We celebrated the inauguration and wedding (to Aberian Arvanxi) last session. Nothing even blew up! Though some of the wedding gifts were...disturbing.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm unclear on how Liebdaga wandered the Containment rooms. My best guess is that his Tenacious Soul lets him do some sort of projection (that's physical enough to eat at the banquet). I can't imagine that he's ever actually released from the cage. Is this explained and I just missed it?


We just started this book and had a blast. I had put the sound of a nuclear explosion on my computer along with a panicking crowd to get my players in the mood. I also printed out an enlarged map of the ruins on my color printer, 4 sheets wide and 5 sheets deep. I had it hidden under a Chessex map until the player got there and had the big reveal. Great fun. You can read about it here, My Blog, set for labels for this book, The Infernal Syndrome. Contains spoilers.

Grand Lodge

Imars, your idea about printing out this map isn't a half bad idea. My group only has a small'ish battle map which we typically use since we use mini's as well. Was the 4x5 print out big enough to use mini's on?

Also, as I said before in the prior forums, thanks for everyone's feedback and suggestions. I read through the module first and then start throwing in modifications. I'll be tossing out the staggered condition on big L since I think my party would kill him before they get a chance. I'm running it with 5 people, one of which is a super-munchkin. I'm trying not to pick on him too much since he gets super sensitive, but when the tactics say "Obvious fighter" or something along those lines, it's hard not to.

Honestly, part 1 confused me at first, until I read part 2, which then things started making more sense. I think I'm going to be combining everything, such as them finding Sascar with the sucubbi, dealing with the mayor and the vampire. I'll make sure they hear them as rumors before they get too far into the area, but I want to feel like time is of the essence.

Grand Lodge

I have a question that someone can hopefully help me out with here quickly. (As I'm running this portion of the adventure tomorrow.)

The timing of everything seems kind of odd. Here's what I've gathered so far from this book and the adventure path.

1. 2 weeks before, robbing going on in nobles houses because of the succubi in F11.

2. Also, around the same time, one of the noble houses is having problems with vampires (maybe not publicly because you have to keep up the noble reputation.)

3. Finally the bone devil is invading one of the other houses right around the mayor's mansion collecting sacrifices.

D-Day, mansion explodes. Dottari are putting up barricades on the streets to the manor to keep people out and safe from the explosion.

Knowing my players like I do, I know they will be heading right for the epicenter of the explosion as soon as possible, so here's some of the off timings I'm seeing with the above points.

1. I really don't have an issue with the succubi. She could have been summoned to the area by one of the tieflings and been enjoying herself up until the explosion.

2. How did the vampire know this was going to be the area that the explosion was going to happen/it was going to happen? Based on that same idea, how did he know ahead of time to dominate the lieutenants of the Dottari to keep an eye out for the PCs?

3. If the bone devil knew the explosion was coming up or was already trying to prep his attempt to contact the BBEG, I can see why he would be gathering sacrifices, but it does say in the book that he's been working on this for a while and been having issues finding people of good nature for his sacrifices. If he started this idea once the explosion happened, how did he gather so many people so quickly?

4. If the council of thieves didn't start inhabiting the ruins until the explosion happened, how did they get such a good foothold so quickly, have established themselves in that area so well and have patrols set up so quickly?

I guess the major thing that I have problems with is it seems like all the interested parties have had at least 2 weeks to go through and establish themselves in the area after the explosion, but this assumes that the PCs aren't running directly into the explosion, so I'm not sure how to work the timing of everything.

Part 1 wants me to have them find Sascar, the Mayor and deal with the vampire panic, but the Mayor is found in section 2 as is the vampire, so besides trying to find Sascar, I don't see any reason the PCs should wait before heading into the fray.

Would someone mind sharing with me how they worked the timing of this situation into their campaign?

Thanks!

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Joshua North wrote:
Knowing my players like I do, I know they will be heading right for the epicenter of the explosion as soon as possible, so here's some of the off timings I'm seeing with the above points.

My campaign hasn't even started yet, but perhaps I can help.

Joshua North wrote:
2. How did the vampire know this was going to be the area that the explosion was going to happen/it was going to happen? Based on that same idea, how did he know ahead of time to dominate the lieutenants of the Dottari to keep an eye out for the PCs?

Spoiler:
Actually, if word of what happened in Delvehaven got back to Ilnerik, then Jerusen was already in the process of dominating Dottari officers - these two just happen to be the ones on site. When the explosion happens is when he gave these two lieutenants there current orders.

This is different then the text, but should work better for what you want.

Joshua North wrote:
3. If the bone devil knew the explosion was coming up or was already trying to prep his attempt to contact the BBEG, I can see why he would be gathering sacrifices, but it does say in the book that he's been working on this for a while and been having issues finding people of good nature for his sacrifices. If he started this idea once the explosion happened, how did he gather so many people so quickly?

Spoiler:
It is best to assume, that Nyxervex at gathering the necessary sacrifices since the events of the Six Fold Trial. Rather, it is more likely that he took the explosion as his signal to begin the ritual.

The text actually supports this interpretation.

Joshua North wrote:
4. If the council of thieves didn't start inhabiting the ruins until the explosion happened, how did they get such a good foothold so quickly, have established themselves in that area so well and have patrols set up so quickly?

This one is tricky. Your right, it doesn't make sense.

Spoiler:
But, one way of fixing this makes your life harder. You will need to plot the path taken by Aberten, Avahzi, Crosael, and their small army of thieves when they sneak (or more likey bribe their way) into the area. This means that you will (1) have to predetermine their route, and (2) track their relative progress vs. the PCs. Keep in mind that Crosael knows the area intimately.

Joshua North wrote:
I guess the major thing that I have problems with is it seems like all the interested parties have had at least 2 weeks to go through and establish themselves in the area after the explosion, but this assumes that the PCs aren't running directly into the explosion, so I'm not sure how to work the timing of everything.

Just because an encounter is in section 2, doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't move it to make the story flow better.

Also see Treppa's post above.

Grand Lodge

Thank you very much Lord Fyre,

I like the suggestions you've provided in regards to Jerusen as that makes a ton of sense as well as for Nyxervex, so I'm going to be working that into my game.

I've had one idea that I've been running through my head in regards to the Mayor and the Council:

CoT:
This idea starts about two weeks before the explosion. What if Crosael has finally gotten tired of trying to find the contract through stealth and finally showed her true colors, let some of the CoT into the lower levels and then roughed up the mayor in order to have him show them the Nessian Spiral and also to try to get the contract from him.

I would imagine that since the Mayor was a bit of a softie that he would be trying to save his own hide as much as possible, so he would show them where the entrance was (since he knew that there was some things down there that he never wanted to see, out of fear of death, so why not send some thieves down there to their own graves), but would hide the contract as he didn't want them to have full control over the manor.

When the explosion happens, he then sees this as a chance to escape and track down the PCs in order to ask them to help him out. It even says in his red text that Crosael was even trying to find the contract, so I think this might help out a little.

As for the barricades to the area...

Barricades:
If we go with the assumption that Ilnerek has sent his minion to the area to look out for the PCs and he took over the Lieutenants of the Dottari before the explosion, then in Part 1, it mentions that there is a group of nobles that need help with a vampire infestation. Why wouldn't the vampire take this opportunity to send his guards to the area and better secure the area for himself while making it look like the guards are protecting the public?

Thanks once again for your help. I think with these suggestions and getting a chance to talk this through with someone else, I can make this flow a little better. It just means giving my PCs a little downtime after Delvehaven to give them a few breadcrumbs as Treppa stated.

Grand Lodge

Well, since I'm through the bumpy area of explaining why everyone is ready and raring to go, I gave my PCs a bit of a breadcrumb trail (very nonchalantly) and got the story rolling, but the PCs really only questioned one part of the timeline.

Guards:
When we reached A on the main map, they were questioning how they got the barricades up so quickly (within a few hours), which I ended up explaining that they were trying to keep people out of the area due to a "plague" which in reality, was the vampire problem from Part 1, the guards just didn't say what the real reason was.

On top of that, that worked out great, because the vampire had the lieutenants dominated, so it was almost like the vampire was protecting himself as well.

One question I do have one additional question that I'm not sure how to handle, but it's probably too late as of right now until they go into building C.

Domination:
What kind of check is it to determine if someone is dominated by a vampire? Does the PCs get a sense motive to notice things are a bit odd? How about a knowledge religion to notice the signs of a dominated person?

My players are apparently not paying too close of attention because I told them that the "plague" has been going on for about a week, but the lieutenant looked like he hasn't slept for about two weeks, so they missed one red flag that I put out for them completely.

Any help on this one would be great.

Thanks!

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