Director of Brand Strategy
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Opie,
First of all, I don't know the answer to your primary question, but I can suggest a few things. Save the lvl 7 character for conversion at/after GenCon and play the last five levels of wizard with him under the new rules. Start a new PC of a different class to play Hydra's Fang. That way when you convert to PFRPG rules, you'll have a high and low level character and will be able to play both high and low tiered scenarios from the onset of Season 1.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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The OP brings up an interesting point in general.
Let's say a local comic shop hosts a game that brings in:
- a 3rd level fighter,
- a 4th level fighter.
- a 5th level monk,
- an 8th level ranger.
The DM is set to run a module that has a Tier 1-2, and a Tier 4-5. The average party level is 20 / 4 = 5. Can this party run in an APL 4-5 tier? Or, conversely, is the ranger not allowed to play in the adventure at all?
(If the ranger's player creates a new, 1st level character, the APL would be 13 / 4, or 3.25, so they'd have to play in the higher tier anyways. The 1st level character is almost certain to die.)
Would the answer be any different with:
- a 4th level fighter,
- a 5th level fighter.
- a 5th level monk,
- a 6th level ranger.
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At Origins, I ran Mist of Mwangi for a group of four. They included two first level barbarians, a first level wizard and a 6th level cleric. I ran it as a tier 2 game. It was the only way we could accomodate the group that showed up to play. The scheduled game was actually 21, The eternal Obelisk, but we had the three guys with 1st levels show up and had to figure out how to split the groups so everyone could play.
Which I guess means that I am interested in knowing whether this was actually kosher as well.
I will be codifying this a lot more clearly in 2.0 in August. The basic idea is this: I want people to play and have fun first and foremost. While there will be hard rules for table sizes and PC levels, there will also be exceptions allowed for the very situations people noted above. I don't want to turn anyone away from a table if I can help it. Stay tuned for additional specifics.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Josh, you haven't asked for a recommendation, but here's one, anyway.
Large conventions, with dozens and dozens of players, is different from game store play, and home play. At a convention, you can insist that PCs be close to each other in level. If a half-dozen people show up at a game store scenario, we more or less have to play the ball where it lands.
Perspective: I played in a Living Arcanis campaign, and my PC started when everybody else was between 9th and 12th level. I am not exaggerating in the slightest when I say my PC managed to do damage to an opponent once, only once, before he was 7th Level. It was a fascinating campaign to watch, because there's lots of cool things about Arcanis' campaign world. But, seriously...
My opinion: I think it is a mistake for Paizo to encourage game stores and home campaigns to strictly follow PFS rules that are necessary for large convention play. If everybody else has played up to 6th Level, then sure, bring in a brand-new 4th Level PC. Starting a 1st Level character and trying to play in a Tier 4-5 adventure will just get the character killed. What kind of fun is that?
Should that new 4th-Level PC be allowed in convention play? Probably not. But should all the other PCs be banned from conventions because they ran with a non-convention-legal party member? What kind of fun is that?
Chris, what about a convention that has 12 attendees?
The O P - Yes, it was fine.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Chris, what about a convention that has 12 attendees?
The short answer: if that's 12 players, you're looking at two or three tables. If possible, assemble them into groups of like-leveled characters as appropriate. (It's better than the 6-player scenario, because there's *some* wiggle-room. But not a lot.)
(If 11 people have mid- to high-level characters that they really want to play, and one newbie has a beginning character, it's going to be a mess anyway, particularly as that character endures session after session "out of tier". See if it's possible to stick the new PC in a larger group and hope for the best. It's still likely to be frustrating.)
More generally, sure, there's a continuum from "Sunday afternoon at a small game store" to "Gen-Con". The smaller the group of people, the hardr it will be to accomodate everybody's PFS character.
So, if you were looking for recommendations, here's what I'd suggest:
"Try to seat all players with their PFS character, within their tier. If that's not possible, try to get close (say, a 4th Level PC with a bunch of Level 1-3 or 5-7 comrades). If that's still not possible, offer the option of playing an iconic of the correct level. Iconics don't get any experience and don't retain any treasure."
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I'm baffled. You people allow a table consisting of both 1st-level characters and 6th-level characters? In such a case I'd order the 6th-level character's player to create a new 1st-level character. There's really no point in having a superhero spoil the fun with his/her supermajicks.
I'm quite confident the upcoming RPG convention over here will feature only Tier 1-2 games, despite some people having 3+ level characters.
And those so stubborn not to make another character for the sake of all shouldn't arrive at all.
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And those so stubborn not to make another character for the sake of all shouldn't arrive at all.
As the 6th level Cleric in that group, I didn't arrive to play Mist of Mwangi, but The Eternal Obelisk as scheduled. A total of 9 players showed for the session. I could have joined the level appropriate group as a 6th player, and told the new players to scram. The organizers could have forced the new players to run pre-gen characters, play EO, and eat the chronicle, which for relatively new players interested in Pathfinder and the PFS, this would not have been much fun. As it was I accepted the request to join the lower tier game and let them play and have fun, which is what the game is about, IMHO.
Forcing me to play a new 1st level character would have personally killed my fun, as I have no use for multiple characters, let alone one I am forced to create. I play in a home game and Origins is the only convention I attend as a PC, all others are as a DM.
I was interested in growing my PC, while the new players wanted to experience the game. I think a fair balance was achieved. I held back from combat, allowing the group to play as their hearts directed, and reserved healing unless really necessary. The party survived, with some effort, their goals were accomplished, and the Andoran cause furthered with the recovery of a key. However, as should be pointed out, I missed out by playing MM, as a particular item on my third chronicle remained above what the reward from MM granted me, but EO may well have granted. No third level Pearl of Power for me.
Living play, be it at Cons or Game days, should remain somewhat flexible to the situations of the day, not smack of rigid rules and draconic rulings. Just my 2 cp.