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Savage Tide - converting to Pathfinder?


Savage Tide Adventure Path


I've been fairly impressed, reading over the Pathfinder beta release, and definitely plan to get a copy when it's released. I'd like the next campaign I run to be Savage Tide. Does anyone have any stories to relate regarding running the Savage Tide AP with Pathfinder?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I've run 95% of "There Is No Honor" using the "Minimal change" option which is leave everything except a few feats and stuff (with regards to npc's and monsters)as 3.5; aka: less work for lazy DM's (heh) and the parts that have been deemed TPK's (Parrot Island for one) didn't seem nearly as daunting to my PC's.

ocasionally they did have some incredible luck tho. if there's anything specific I can probably tell you what I did and the outcome....one thing-> they trashed the thieves hardcore. The party was so quick with stuff that the little ambushes that led to Dead Dogs Alley didn't get to lead them there. I had to use a couple extra Bugbears (that then became the Bugbear zombies in Lotus hideout-to supplemnt the thieves. They did have alot of fun, and we definately without a doubt did away with the 15 minute adventuring day. I guess that's all tha really counts....


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Amardolem wrote:

I've run 95% of "There Is No Honor" using the "Minimal change" option which is leave everything except a few feats and stuff (with regards to npc's and monsters)as 3.5; aka: less work for lazy DM's (heh) and the parts that have been deemed TPK's (Parrot Island for one) didn't seem nearly as daunting to my PC's.

same here.

Bullywug Gambit doesn't seem to have any problems either. I suspect that the real issues wont crop up until mid- to high levels, though.


One of my specific questions is how well the new XP system works. I know that in running Age of Worms in 3.5 (with one side-trek into Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, which is about a third through), I've had to halve or even quarter the XP I awarded to keep the PCs more or less on the track of "your PCs should be this level when they start this segment". How does Pathfinder's XP system stack up?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Kurukami wrote:
One of my specific questions is how well the new XP system works. I know that in running Age of Worms in 3.5 (with one side-trek into Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, which is about a third through), I've had to halve or even quarter the XP I awarded to keep the PCs more or less on the track of "your PCs should be this level when they start this segment". How does Pathfinder's XP system stack up?

I went with PFRPG's "fast" xp option and they're right there, if slightly (very slightly) ahead...

And again I used the table from the 3.5 DMG for calculating xp at the end of sessions and such. (I don't think there is one in the BETA)


Amardolem wrote:

I went with PFRPG's "fast" xp option and they're right there, if slightly (very slightly) ahead...

And again I used the table from the 3.5 DMG for calculating xp at the end of sessions and such. (I don't think there is one in the BETA)

Are you looking at the XP award tables on pages 291-292 of the Beta? If you're going with the XP-player-advancement shown in classes, but the XP awards given from the DMG in 3.5, I suspect a rather notable gap would open up come the higher levels.

PHB 3.5:
(10) 45,000 xp
(11) 55,000
(12) 66,000
(13) 78,000
(14) 91,000
(15) 105,000
(16) 120,000
(17) 136,000
(18) 153,000
(19) 171,000
(20) 190,000

Pathfinder Beta:
(10) 71,000 xp
(11) 105,000
(12) 145,000
(13) 210,000
(14) 295,000
(15) 425,000
(16) 600,000
(17) 850,000
(18) 1,200,000
(19) 1,700,000
(20) 2,400,000

With level 20 on fast Pathfinder advancement being about 13 or 14 times as much experience as it takes to reach it under 3.5 rules, I suspect the 3.5 XP awards won't work for a sustained period.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Yes, as to the classes (BETA pg 13) I actually hadn't looked that far ahead yet as we're still just out of the gate..I was referring to the CR tables on pg 38 of the DMG but that would pose a rather significant dilemma (of course at our rate we won't get there till after New Years 2010!)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

This is only part of the story. We'd have to compare the amount of XP gained per encounter in both systems to make any kind of comparison based on the XP charts.


Chef's Slaad wrote:
This is only part of the story. We'd have to compare the amount of XP gained per encounter in both systems to make any kind of comparison based on the XP charts.

Excellent point. From the beta, the amount of experience awarded IS substantially higher -- and moreover, doesn't vary by the level of the PCs getting the award.


I thought the point of Pathfinder was it remained compatible with the earlier edition?


DMaple wrote:
I thought the point of Pathfinder was it remained compatible with the earlier edition?

I'm fairly certain that the experience charts, like the wealth by level charts, are not OGL, and thus cannot be reprinted. There is however nothing to stop you from using the 3.5 experience/wealth charts with a 3.5 Adventure. That is to say there is nothing about Pathfinder that forces you to use their experience chart.

I haven't looked at the numbers closely, but I suspect that you won't find many issues running it even if you do use the medium Pathfinder experience chart. From what I understand it is supposed to progress at roughly the same rate as that found in the 3.5 core rulebooks. If you run into issues you can always give out roleplaying experience to make up the difference.

Experience per encounter can be found for Pathfinder on page 292 of the Beta book.


My players are right now battling in the Thieves Den and are having quite the tough time, though a lot of fun and no TPK's as of yet. I must admit to being totally lazy, I have yet to convert any of the adventure to Pathfinder, even though the players are using Beta rules for their characters.

Has anyone converted any of the higher level adventures?

Perhaps we could also post some conversions for major and minor NPC's once the corebook comes out this next month?


Sol wrote:

My players are right now battling in the Thieves Den and are having quite the tough time, though a lot of fun and no TPK's as of yet. I must admit to being totally lazy, I have yet to convert any of the adventure to Pathfinder, even though the players are using Beta rules for their characters.

Has anyone converted any of the higher level adventures?

Perhaps we could also post some conversions for major and minor NPC's once the corebook comes out this next month?

I'd definitely be up for that. I'm waiting to get my hands on the actual Pathfinder rules, though. Rowyn, I think, begs for a bit of a rewrite.


Vanthus needs a total overhaul. His pathetic Will save bonus doesn't stand up to much of anything, for starters.


Turin the Mad wrote:
Vanthus needs a total overhaul. His pathetic Will save bonus doesn't stand up to much of anything, for starters.

Hrm... now that it has been the better part of two years, doing conversions could be entertaining...


Turin the Mad wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
Vanthus needs a total overhaul. His pathetic Will save bonus doesn't stand up to much of anything, for starters.
Hrm... now that it has been the better part of two years, doing conversions could be entertaining...

And Pathfinder's out in, what, ten days? Doing conversions will be a great way for me to solidly familiarize myself with the new system.


Kurukami wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
Vanthus needs a total overhaul. His pathetic Will save bonus doesn't stand up to much of anything, for starters.
Hrm... now that it has been the better part of two years, doing conversions could be entertaining...
And Pathfinder's out in, what, ten days? Doing conversions will be a great way for me to solidly familiarize myself with the new system.

Agreed. And posting such conversions would show how different people perceive the new system as well!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Question: with the coming of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, has anyone converted Savage Tide to the Pathfinder/Golarion setting? Any good conversion notes perchance?


Cesare wrote:
Question: with the coming of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, has anyone converted Savage Tide to the Pathfinder/Golarion setting? Any good conversion notes perchance?

I haven't looked into "setting conversions" for it as of yet, although the question definitely tickles the (mostly dead) memory cells...

Off the top of my head, I would probably set the home town in The Shackles, branching out into the safer areas of The Sodden Lands in Chapters 2 and 3 before heading south and east, hugging the coast away from Port Peril and really starting to get going once they clear Desperation Bay. The Isle of Dread could be well off of the map (as befits the expedition).

Keeping in mind that the lost kingdom of Ghol-Gan is an excellent "stand in" for the Olman - perhaps the indicated area of influence on pages 222-223 of the PCCS is merely the northernmost area of influence before the first Savage Tide struck aeons ago. The aforementioned "waterlogged temple of Xanthuun" could stand in for Tamoachoan, or perhaps what they encounter is merely a 'satellite' temple...

The Aspis Consortium could replace the Crimson Fleet, with Bloodcove replacing Scuttlecove as the designated "wretched hive of scum and villainy".

A much more "grey" tone for the campaign could easily be set by basing it out of Port Peril proper, nominal "capitol" of the Shackles. Port Peril has a much smaller population (and thus GP limit) - and it is a far harsher city to grow up in. As an alternative, one could drop Sasserine on the large island along the northwestern side of the Eye. The Festival of the Worm one would replace with another holiday in any case.

Those would be my initial thoughts on the concept.


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For the time being, given that I haven't put any money into the Golarion world-building stuff, I was contemplating sticking with Greyhawk geography. That said, I would still like to convert the primary deities of Sasserine over to something resembling those in the Pathfinder core rulebook.

The seven primarily worshipped deities, and my guesses at what the conversion might be, follow:

* Wee Jas (LN) --> Nethys (N), god of magic (destruction, knowledge, magic, protection, rune)
* Pelor (NG) --> Sarenrae (NG), goddess of the sun, redemption, honesty, & healing (fire, glory, good, healing, sun)
* Fharlanghn (N) --> Desna (CG), goddess of dreams, stars, travelers, & luck (chaos, good, liberation, luck, & travel)
* St. Cuthbert (LN) --> Irori (LN), god of history, knowledge, & self-perfection (healing, knowledge, law, rune, strength)
* Olidammara (CN) --> Calistria (CN), goddess of trickery, lust, & revenge (chaos, charm, knowledge, luck, trickery)
* Kord (CG) --> Cayden Cailean (CG), god of freedom, ale, wine, and bravery (chaos, charm, good, strength, travel)
* Osprem/Procan/Xerbo (LN/CN/???) --> Gozreh (N), deity of nature, weather, the sea (air, animal, plant, water, weather)

Some of these (like Gozreh and Sarenrae) are easy, good fits. Others are far less so. Any thoughts?


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As the first conversion project, and just to begin familiarizing myself with the Pathfinder changes, I put together these alternative Lavinias.

Lavinia Vanderboren (There Is No Honor).
Female human aristocrat 2. (NG)
Init: +2; Senses: Perception +2 (no ranks, class skill, WIS -1)
Languages: Common, Elven, Halfling, Celestial

Stats: Str 10, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 15.
: (Knowing that she will eventually be going into swashbuckler, I used the +2 human racial stat bonus on Int.)
Feats: Persuasive, Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
: (With the Negotiator feat gone from PF, Persuasive (which adds to Diplomacy) seemed the only proper substitute.)
Skills: Appraise +8, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +12, Intimidate +9, Know (local) +8, Know (nobility) +8, Perception +2, Perform (stringed instrument) +7, Sense Motive +4, Swim +5 (seriously, who grows up in a seaside town without learning how to swim?)

AC 12, touch 12, flat-footed 11.
hp 14 (2 HD)
Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +2.
Speed 30'.
Attack: mwk rapier +2 melee (1d6/18-20)
Base Attack: +1 CMB: +1 CMD: +2

: : : : : :

Lavinia Vanderboren (The Bullywug Gambit).
Female human aristocrat 2/swashbuckler 1. (NG)
: (I am using the linked version of the swashbuckler class, except that it gets a d10 HD.)
Init: +6; Senses: Perception +2 (no ranks, class skill, WIS -1)
Languages: Common, Elven, Halfling, Celestial

Stats: Str 10, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 15.
Feats: Persuasive, Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse
Skills: Acrobatics +5, Appraise +9, Bluff +8, Diplomacy +13, Escape Artist +5, Intimidate +9, Know (local) +9, Know (nobility) +9, Perception +2, Perform (stringed instrument) +7, Sense Motive +5, Swim +5.
Abilities: Bravado (+CHA to AC)

AC 14, touch 14, flat-footed 11.
hp 22 (3 HD)
Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +2.
Speed 30'.
Attack: mwk rapier +5 melee (1d6/18-20)
Base Attack: +3 CMB: +3 CMD: +4

: : : : : :

My thinking for the update to the swashbuckler class is that the Grace feature's or Bravado feature's bonus might even apply to some combat maneuvers -- specifically disarm and trip, as those seem to be the most associated with derring-do and duelling swords. Other than that, simply upgrading the hit die to match the fighter's (and the source class back in Complete Warrior) seems sufficient to make it a reasonable parallel to the core classes.

For Lavinia's advancement in swashbuckler (I haven't deeply perused past Here There Be Monsters), pushing feats like Combat expertise, Improved Disarm/Trip, or Mobility seem potentially appropriate.

Opinions? Critiques?

Taldor

I've been doing some moderate conversions on "There is No Honor" and this is what I have so far for the NPCs and monsters. I used the simple conversion rules and the Bestiary preview for anyone that wants to tinker with these stats.

Parts 1 and 2

Lavinia: 16 hp, CMB +1/CMD 14, Dex 15, AC 13, Ref +2
Vark's Thugs: 10 hp, rapier +3(1d6+2/18-20), CMB +3/CMD 13
Soller Vark: 23 hp, Dex 17, crossbow +5, MW rapier +6, AC 17, CMB +3/CMD 16
Rhagodessa: CMB +7(+11 grapple)/CMD 18

Part 3

Iron Cobra: bite +3, CMB +3/CMD 16

Part 4

Shefton Rosk: +9 Bluff
Ravenous Zombie Pirates: 12 hp, CMB +4(+8 grapple)/CMD 14
Veldimar Krund: CMB +0/CMD 11, Channel Energy 1d6(DC 13 half), Bleeding Touch 6/day, Touch of Evil 6/day, Spells: 0-Bleed, Guidance, Resistance, 1-cause fear, obscuring mist(number of spells changed, spell choices was purely personal...with Channel Energy as a class feature, obscuring mist becomes a more useful tactical spell)
Small Monstrous Crabs: CMB -1(+3 grapple)/CMD 9

Part 5 isn't finished yet but I'll post it here when I'm done.


Warforged Gardener wrote:


Small Monstrous Crabs: CMB -1(+3 grapple)/CMD 9

Heh. And this illustrates just one of the things I have yet to solidly learn about Pathfinder -- CMD is a straight 10 + modifiers, rather than a d20. Kinda makes me wish I could go back and fix that previous post; oh well. Just pretend the "+" in the CMD section is a "1". : )


Kurukami wrote:
Warforged Gardener wrote:


Small Monstrous Crabs: CMB -1(+3 grapple)/CMD 9
Heh. And this illustrates just one of the things I have yet to solidly learn about Pathfinder -- CMD is a straight 10 + modifiers, rather than a d20. Kinda makes me wish I could go back and fix that previous post; oh well. Just pretend the "+" in the CMD section is a "1". : )

Don't worry about it--the CMD thing was pretty new for me, too.

If anyone's interested, I can post brief updates on how the changes affect the encounters in another thread. I've actually run Savage Tide before, so I've already noticed small differences(though many of those can be chalked up to experienced players in the first group vs. total newbies in this one).


Kurukami wrote:
Amardolem wrote:

I went with PFRPG's "fast" xp option and they're right there, if slightly (very slightly) ahead...

And again I used the table from the 3.5 DMG for calculating xp at the end of sessions and such. (I don't think there is one in the BETA)

Are you looking at the XP award tables on pages 291-292 of the Beta? If you're going with the XP-player-advancement shown in classes, but the XP awards given from the DMG in 3.5, I suspect a rather notable gap would open up come the higher levels.

PHB 3.5:
(10) 45,000 xp
(11) 55,000
(12) 66,000
(13) 78,000
(14) 91,000
(15) 105,000
(16) 120,000
(17) 136,000
(18) 153,000
(19) 171,000
(20) 190,000

Pathfinder Beta:
(10) 71,000 xp
(11) 105,000
(12) 145,000
(13) 210,000
(14) 295,000
(15) 425,000
(16) 600,000
(17) 850,000
(18) 1,200,000
(19) 1,700,000
(20) 2,400,000

With level 20 on fast Pathfinder advancement being about 13 or 14 times as much experience as it takes to reach it under 3.5 rules, I suspect the 3.5 XP awards won't work for a sustained period.

One interesting side-effect of the Pathfinder XP table...

There is more XP available for crafting magic items.

I also like the Pathfinder point buy system, it does a real nice job of creating heroic AND balanced characters. Might even lessen the perceived need for dump stats.


Hired Sword wrote:

One interesting side-effect of the Pathfinder XP table...

There is more XP available for crafting magic items.

I also like the Pathfinder point buy system, it does a real nice job of creating heroic AND balanced characters. Might even lessen the perceived need for dump stats.

Interesting side note, though -- I don't believe that crafting magical items costs any XP anymore. I had initially thought it was just going to be that way with expendables like scrolls and potions, but from the look of the magic item creation rules on the Pathfinder SRD it appears that applies to all of them.


Kurukami wrote:
Hired Sword wrote:

One interesting side-effect of the Pathfinder XP table...

There is more XP available for crafting magic items.

I also like the Pathfinder point buy system, it does a real nice job of creating heroic AND balanced characters. Might even lessen the perceived need for dump stats.

Interesting side note, though -- I don't believe that crafting magical items costs any XP anymore. I had initially thought it was just going to be that way with expendables like scrolls and potions, but from the look of the magic item creation rules on the Pathfinder SRD it appears that applies to all of them.

Correct: nothing as things presently stand cost XP to do, just money.

It is worth noting that an XP cost to gain abilities (starting with traits and feats), additional class features (as opposed to alternative class features), and the like could be pretty sweet. But that's off topic...


Kurukami wrote:

* Fharlanghn (N) --> Desna (CG), goddess of dreams, stars, travelers, & luck (chaos, good, liberation, luck, & travel)

* Olidammara (CN) --> Calistria (CN), goddess of trickery, lust, & revenge (chaos, charm, knowledge, luck, trickery)
* Kord (CG) --> Cayden Cailean (CG), god of freedom, ale, wine, and bravery (chaos, charm, good, strength, travel)

On second consideration, I'm going to use Abadar instead of Desna as a stand-in for Fharlanghn. Desna's domains are a bit too close to Calistria's and Cayden's for my tastes, and this will allow a broader spectrum of domains to be available for players. Moreover, his temples are in the Merchants' District -- it's only appropriate that a god of merchants be worshipped there! Thus, updated:

* Fharlanghn (N) --> Abadar (LN), god of cities, wealth, merchants, & law (earth, law, nobility, protection, travel).


Eeeeeeexcellent. I just finished statting out the XP received for my prospective 5 PCs, assuming the use of Mad God's Key as an intro adventure and running through all the opposition in TiNH. Under the slow-advancement Pathfinder table, and granting full XP for all opponents faced (though I assumed that Rowyn escaping rather than being killed will be a CR3 gain), the XP split between the five characters after those two adventures will be just enough to bump them to level 3.

Moreover, they'll be level 2 after the vault but before they go down beneath Parrot Island.

One thing, though -- I'm planning to award XP for spotting/disarming a trap only to the rogue who accomplishes that (if they do). Can anyone suggest ideas on how one might provide similar boosts to other character classes? ("Spell research" works for arcane casters and, in theory, divine casters, but fighters are rather SOL unless one starts handing out bonuses for particularly valorous combat.)


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My update of Rowyn (I rolled stats for her via the same means the PCs will get theirs):

Rowyn Kellani
Female human rogue 3/sorcerer (red draconic bloodline) 3.
NE medium humanoid.
Init: +7, Senses: Perception +6.
Languages: common, Aquan, Draconic, elven.

AC: 20 (10 base, +5 DEX, +4 mage armor, +1 natural) or 24 (+4 shield), touch 15, flat-footed 15/19. (All numbers without possible +1 from Combat Expertise.)
HP: 45 (6 HD -- max 1st lvl, +2d8+3d6+15, assuming average hp)
Fort: +5, Ref: +9, Will: +4; evasion.

Speed: 30 ft.
BaB: +3, CMB: +4, CMD: 19.
Attack: +1 rapier +9 melee (1d6+1/18-20) (+10 melee with AoO's)
or mwk hand crossbow +9 ranged (1d4/19-20 plus poison)
or claws +8/+8 melee (1d4+1, up to 7 rounds per day)
Attack Options: Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, sneak attack +2d6.
Combat Gear: potion of cure moderate wounds, potion of gaseous form, infusion of fog cloud (brewed like a potion; basically a one-shot conjuration of fog cloud used as a grenade-like weapon), wand of animate dead (5 charges), wand of charm person (35 charges)
Spells Known: (CL 3rd)
. 1st (6/day) -- color spray (Will DC 15), charm person (Will DC 15), shield, mage armor (bloodline spell)
. 0th (unlimited) -- mage hand, message, detect magic, ghost sound, daze

Abilities: Str 12, Dex 20, Con 16, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 18.
SQ: trapfinding, trap sense +1, bloodline arcana, bloodline powers (resist fire 5).
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, [Combat Reflexes*,] Weapon Finesse, (Eschew Materials^), Deceitful.
* Rogue talent.
^ Sorcerer bonus feat.
Traits: Fencer (+1 attack on AoO's with swords, daggers, and similar bladed weapons), Reactionary (+2 on Initiative checks).
Skills: Acrobatics +14, Bluff +15, Diplomacy +13, Disguise +11, Disable Device +9, Escape Artist +11, Intimidate +10, Knowledge (local) +9, Knowledge (arcana) +7, Perception +6, Perform (dance) +10, Sense Motive +9, Sleight of Hand +14, Swim +5, Use Magic Device +13. (Untrained: Appraise +3, Climb +1, Stealth +5.)
Possessions: combat gear, +1 rapier, masterwork hand crossbow with 10 bolts poisoned with black adder venom (Fort DC 11, frequency 1/round for 6 rounds, 1d2 CON dmg each failed save, only 1 successful save needed for cure), gold earrings worth 300 gp, bejewled necklace worth 200 gp, skeleton key (fits all locks in guildhall, including treasury door).

: : : : : :

Gut Tugger
Male crested felldrake rogue 2.
NE small dragon.
Init: +6, Senses: darkvision 60', low-light vision, scent, Perception +7.
Languages: common, Draconic, Sylvan.

AC: 20 (10 base, +2 DEX, +2 armor, +4 natural, +1 size, +1 dodge), touch 14, flat-footed 17.
HP: 39 (4 HD; assuming average hp and increased-size rogue hit die)
Immune: sleep, paralysis.
Fort: +6, Ref: +8, Will: +3; evasion.

Speed: 40 ft.
BaB: +3, CMB: +4, CMD: 19.
Attack: bite +5 melee (1d8+1)
Attack Options: sneak attack +1d6.

Abilities: Str 12, Dex 15, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10
SQ: trapfinding
Feats: Improved Initiative, [Combat Reflexes*,] Dodge
* Rogue talent.
Skills: Acrobatics +9, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +5, Perception +7, Sleight of Hand +9, Stealth +13.
Possessions: collar of armor +2 (as bracers of armor +2)

: : : : : :

Basically, I decided to entirely throw away the bard concept as not particularly usable. Instead I gave Rowyn the draconic bloodline sorcerer concept, which both fits with the Lotus Dragons symbolism, will provide her with substantial power later on (assuming she survives to stow away on the Sea Wyvern) and helps to make her a sneak attacking combat monster.

With Improved Feint and Deceitful, she makes a Bluff check of d20+15 as a move action against a DC of 10 +2 (max opponent BaB) +5 (max opponent Wis bonus) = 17. If she rolls a 1, she fails to feint; otherwise, the opponent is flat-footed and she gets sneak attack damage.

If the opponent has bothered to put any ranks in Sense Motive, it gets a little bit tougher. However, with multiple uses of color spray each day able to make opponents of under her level unconscious, stunned, or blinded (and blinded means they have no Dex bonus to AC, which makes them sneak attack fodder), she can turn the tables on a group of PCs very quickly.

That's without even mentioning the benefit having Gut Tugger around to flank and run interference.

Combat Expertise is more there as a prerequisite to Improved Feint than as a substantial bonus to AC, for the moment (though that will change a bit after she gains another level or two).

Acrobatics +14 makes her highly maneuverable, and able to move with near-impunity against a non-dextrous opponent. The tight conditions of her lounge in the Lotus Dragon hideout make this a virtual necessity, but also limit the need to move far and fast. Combat Reflexes and the Fencer trait make her a terror against anyone who tries to get around to flank her.

Her protective spells, combined with a high DEX and the bonus to natural armor from the bloodline, make her very hard to hurt with the usual hack and slash assault against a spellcaster. Escape Artist +11 helps on the off chance that she does get grappled ("Rowyn head-butts you, then seems to shimmy free of your full-nelson like she's made out of water...").

She's not a glass cannon so much as she is a survivor... not a lot of damage necessarily, but enough resilience and avoidance to survive a good long combat against multiple opponents. She has a wide variety of tactics available to her to turn a combat situation to her benefit and the opponent's disadvantage. And when she makes the PCs an offer of recruitment, it's because she honestly does want them on her side, not necessarily as a last resort of desperation to avoid being killed or imprisoned.

Moreover, between high-bonus social skills (primarily Bluff and Diplomacy) and her innate use of charm person, she is an extremely effective manipulator of social circles.


OK, here's a question for you...

Having fully converted over the opponents of "Mad God's Key" as my Pathfinder Savage Tide intro, I'm now working on "There Is No Honor". I'm in the middle of the Parrot Island segment. Given the new mechanism for clerics (unless they take the Turn Undead feat), how does turn resistance work for undead?

I'm specifically looking at the huecuva cleric.

One possibility that occured to me is that you could subtract the turn resistance from any positive energy dealt by a cleric's channel energy ability -- like an elemental resistance. That way a huecuva or something like a ghoul would be more difficult for a lesser caster to damage by channelling, but a higher level caster would probably blow right through it.

This seems particularly troublesome since the Turn Undead feat no longer has anything to do with hit dice affected -- it just requires a Will save. Maybe the turn resistance adds to the undead's Will save as well? Not having access to the PF Bestiary yet, I can only guess.


Kurukami wrote:

OK, here's a question for you...

Having fully converted over the opponents of "Mad God's Key" as my Pathfinder Savage Tide intro, I'm now working on "There Is No Honor". I'm in the middle of the Parrot Island segment. Given the new mechanism for clerics (unless they take the Turn Undead feat), how does turn resistance work for undead?

I'm specifically looking at the huecuva cleric.

One possibility that occured to me is that you could subtract the turn resistance from any positive energy dealt by a cleric's channel energy ability -- like an elemental resistance. That way a huecuva or something like a ghoul would be more difficult for a lesser caster to damage by channelling, but a higher level caster would probably blow right through it.

This seems particularly troublesome since the Turn Undead feat no longer has anything to do with hit dice affected -- it just requires a Will save. Maybe the turn resistance adds to the undead's Will save as well? Not having access to the PF Bestiary yet, I can only guess.

As I recall, Channel Resistance (formerly turn resistance) applies as a bonus to the creature's saving throws against any and all channel-based abilities - including channel energy and channelled energy used by way of the Turn Undead feat. As far as I have read, I believe only the Sun domain overrides this resistance. Undead should still possess a Good Will saving throw for their HD as well.


Turin the Mad wrote:
As I recall, Channel Resistance (formerly turn resistance) applies as a bonus to the creature's saving throws against any and all channel-based abilities - including channel energy and channelled energy used by way of the Turn Undead feat. As far as I have read, I believe only the Sun domain overrides this resistance. Undead should still possess a Good Will saving throw for their HD as well.

*nods contemplatively* That actually does make quite a bit of sense. The huecuva will get nice bonuses to take half damage from any positive channel (which won't be healing the party while it's hurting the undead). Of course, with the huecuva being a cleric, it can channel negative energy right back at any party cleric -- not so much to damage the party, per se, but to heal up the zombies. Ohhhh, the PCs are going to go mad over that.

"Hah! Take that, you spawn of evil! One more stroke and you shall... oh crap it's healing up! Damn it, KILL THAT SKELETAL BASTARD NOW BEFORE WE'RE ALL FOO--" *gurgle*

*crunch gobble devour* "... foooooood?"

You know, I've got to argue that makes the combat under Parrot Island even nastier.


Kurukami wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
As I recall, Channel Resistance (formerly turn resistance) applies as a bonus to the creature's saving throws against any and all channel-based abilities - including channel energy and channeled energy used by way of the Turn Undead feat. As far as I have read, I believe only the Sun domain overrides this resistance. Undead should still possess a Good Will saving throw for their HD as well.

*nods contemplatively* That actually does make quite a bit of sense. The huecuva will get nice bonuses to take half damage from any positive channel (which won't be healing the party while it's hurting the undead). Of course, with the huecuva being a cleric, it can channel negative energy right back at any party cleric -- not so much to damage the party, per se, but to heal up the zombies. Ohhhh, the PCs are going to go mad over that.

"Hah! Take that, you spawn of evil! One more stroke and you shall... oh crap it's healing up! Damn it, KILL THAT SKELETAL BASTARD NOW BEFORE WE'RE ALL FOO--" *gurgle*

*crunch gobble devour* "... foooooood?"

^_^ Zombies getting healed up by a "zombie cleric" will be all kinds of fun. Especially since - if memory serves - he has the Death Domain. "Whaddya MEAN he 'poked me' and I'm bleeding for 1d6/round?!"

"Oh yeah - and he slaps you with a tanglefoot bag ... so you won't get away so easy ... "

EDIT: And yes, Parrot Island is a potentially nasty area - but then, it always has been. I would not change things (other than the stat blocks) unless you felt that you have no alternative. :)


Turin the Mad wrote:

^_^ Zombies getting healed up by a "zombie cleric" will be all kinds of fun. Especially since - if memory serves - he has the Death Domain. "Whaddya MEAN he 'poked me' and I'm bleeding for 1d6/round?!"

"Oh yeah - and he slaps you with a tanglefoot bag ... so you won't get away so easy ... "

EDIT: And yes, Parrot Island is a potentially nasty area - but then, it always has been. I would not change things (other than the stat blocks) unless you felt that you have no alternative. :)

Yup! I shifted him to just have become a cleric of Urgathoa -- following the deity of gluttony seemed particularly apropos. The Death and Evil domains still work, though, and one of his orizons is "bleed". "Oh, you thought you were stabilized...? *evil grin* "

Here's another question. Would the risk of huecuva blight still apply for the bleeding touch and corrupting touch? Technically, it IS touching them after a fashion, though it isn't damaging in the way a slam would be.


Kurukami wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:

^_^ Zombies getting healed up by a "zombie cleric" will be all kinds of fun. Especially since - if memory serves - he has the Death Domain. "Whaddya MEAN he 'poked me' and I'm bleeding for 1d6/round?!"

"Oh yeah - and he slaps you with a tanglefoot bag ... so you won't get away so easy ... "

EDIT: And yes, Parrot Island is a potentially nasty area - but then, it always has been. I would not change things (other than the stat blocks) unless you felt that you have no alternative. :)

Yup! I shifted him to just have become a cleric of Urgathoa -- following the deity of gluttony seemed particularly apropos. The Death and Evil domains still work, though, and one of his orizons is "bleed". "Oh, you thought you were stabilized...? *evil grin* "

Here's another question. Would the risk of huecuva blight still apply for the bleeding touch and corrupting touch? Technically, it IS touching them after a fashion, though it isn't damaging in the way a slam would be.

I would rule that it is - if nothing else, chalk it up to a minor blessing from Urgathoa to his flesh-devouring servant entombed 'neath Parrot Island. Most diseases do not require actual damaging impact to transmit - merely inhale a few particulates or get sneezed on or just simple skin transferral is oft sufficient. ^_^

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