Official Call for Paizo Publishing Gen Con 2009 Volunteer GMs and Assistants!


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Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Amen

Sovereign Court

Joshua J. Frost wrote:
I'm not going to shaft my GMs.

Now THAT is a sentiment I can get behind. :)

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Dragnmoon wrote:
Joshua J. Frost wrote:
... Stay tuned.

Wonders if his antenna is broken because he is not seeing anything on the Paizo Channel

Did you guys go Digital?

Starts moving is antenna around to try to tune in Pazio again, taps it a few times

Is this thing on?

Liberty's Edge *

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

So, what are our chances of this thing happening today? Please check the box that best applies:
.
.
.
.
.
.
[]Barring any unforseen issues, yes
[]We're still hoping so
[]Reply hazy, ask again later
[]Not likely, but within the realm of possible
[]Spend your (rare) weekend off doing something else, check back next week
[]Ummmnnnn... next week, maybe....here's your "huggy suit"


[X]Spend your (rare) weekend off doing something else, check back next week

Liberty's Edge *

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Thanks, Joshua

Liberty's Edge 1/5

*cough, caugh* . . . Don't . . . don't think . . . I'm gonna make it . . . much longer, sir . . . *cough* . . . you guys go on without me . . . *gurgle*

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Joshua J. Frost wrote:
[X]Spend your (rare) weekend off doing something else, check back next week

Bah humbug!

1/5 **

Josh:

I'm sorry for being a broken record, but we're down to just over two weeks until the show. Personally, we're getting close to my comfort zone for adequate preparation, given that I haven't seen the rules yet, and I have my kids more than 50% of the remaining time.

I respect that Paizo is under no obligation to do anything until good and ready. I also know that I don't have all the information that you do; there are probably very good reasons why the rules haven't gone out to GMs yet.

On the other hand, I agreed to GM with the understanding that I'd have enough time to prepare (IIRC this thread used to specify rules in "early July," did it not?), which nows seems to be very much in question. Therefore, if Paizo can't get the rules out to judges by the end of the week (7/31), please remove me as a judge and reassign my housing slot. I do not make this request lightly, as I doubt I will be able to find affordable alternative hotel accomodations at this point (and so I'll almost certainly end up eating the airfare), but the bottom line is that I refuse to walk into Gencon unprepared to give 100% to everyone who sits at my table. It would be both unfair to them and uncomfortable for me.

Sincerely,

Aaron


*sigh*

1/5 **

Joshua J. Frost wrote:
*sigh*

You're frustrated; probably because things haven't gone as planned, and likely for reasons beyond your control. Understandable. But I don't think it is fair to paint me as impatient or unreasonable. Gencon involves things like buying airfare, taking days off of work, etc. In other words, all of your judges are stakeholders, and simply being told "you'll get it when you get it" has become a problem when we're two weeks out, especially since this thread did, IRRC, at one time stipulate hard-copy rules in early July. Frankly, I'm not used to be treated as if my time isn't important, and I don't much care for it.

I'm sorry if this is harsh, but someone dropped the ball. Getting exasperated with me isn't going to help.

5/5

Joshua J. Frost wrote:
*sigh*

I meant to say something funny here, but nothing came out right...

Josh, thank you for all your hard work, and my wife and I can't wait to play at Gen Con.

I would like to volunteer to GM should you come up short. I've got a full Gen Con schedule, so just let me know (I'm sure I can elminate a few things, even playing in PFS if GM's are needed).

5/5

bugleyman wrote:
Gencon involves things like buying airfare, taking days off of work, etc.

Being "late to the game" and unfamiliar with the process, please forgive my questions if they seem out of place or rude. Are you going to Gen Con only to GM for PFS? How many events are you running? What all did you get from Paizo for signing up to GM? (maybe that's back in this thread somewhere...)

1/5 **

Kyle Baird wrote:
Joshua J. Frost wrote:
*sigh*

I meant to say something funny here, but nothing came out right...

Josh, thank you for all your hard work, and my wife and I can't wait to play at Gen Con.

That said, and with absolutely no disrespect meant to bugleyman, I would like to volunteer to GM should you come up short. I've got a full Gen Con schedule, so just let me know.

None taken. I still want to judge, but not if I can't possibly be ready to do it right.

Personally, everyone has to choose what is acceptable to them. When I volunteered to judge, it was under a specific set of circumstances. Those circumstances have now changed in a material fashion, and I'm concerned about my ability to fulfil my end of the bargain, so I'm expressing my concerns here. If judging con games with less prep-time than what I require works for you, then that's great!

The Exchange 1/5 Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6

Dropping out as a judge won't help anyone, and it surely will not improve the playing experience of people at the convention. I can certainly appreciate your level frustration and concern about being prepared, but even so, I ask you to reconsider for at least two reasons:

The first, as mentioned above, that in the end you won't improve the experience for players. Rather, you'll increase the load on other judge and possibly cause people to miss play. Ultimately, taking your name off what you are concerned won't be top-quality is all you'll accomplish. I'd suggest rather, you attend, and try all the harder to make this once-in-a-lifetime launch all you can.

The second is that ultimatums don't resolve tension, they increase it. We don't have any visibility in to what the internal reasons of the delay are, but I can well iamgine it is a Big Deal to release a product early and risk it being leaked out on the net. A threatenede judge walkout, even if it becomes larger, isn't going to make things budge, and the increased stress may even further delay matters behind the scene.

Please, take a step away and reconsider. Paizo can use your help as a committed judge. Stress and frustration are understandable, but I hope no one in the community lets the tension be their master. Now is a time for fans to focus on pulling together and making this new launch a success, whatever the obstacles.

Speaking for myself, of course, as I'm only a volunteer like yourself. Thank you for taking the time to listen.

5/5

bugleyman wrote:
If judging con games with less prep-time than what I require works for you, then that's great!

That all depends on how many different scenarios you're planning on running I suppose. Even if i knew that though, I still wouldn't pass judgement. Heck, when I do a homebrew, I usually spend all of 3 weeks prepping for the first session!

1/5 **

Kyle Baird wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
Gencon involves things like buying airfare, taking days off of work, etc.
Being "late to the game" and unfamiliar with the process, please forgive my questions if they seem out of place or rude. Are you going to Gen Con only to GM for PFS? How many events are you running? What all did you get from Paizo for signing up to GM? (maybe that's back in this thread somewhere...)

I am judging 8 slots, which means I pretty much won't be doing much else.

I am getting 1/4 of a hotel room, a free badge, a free copy of the rules, and $10 per slot run in credit redeemable Sunday. Total value, probably about $400.00. Admittedly, not a completely trivial amount, especially to do something I enjoy.

What I don't enjoy is running con games unprepared. This thread used to say print-rules would be available in "early July," which would have given me plenty of time to be ready. Yet here we are, near the end of the month, and we don't even have a date when we can expect to have the rules. I don't think it is unreasonable for me to be concerned.

5/5

bugleyman wrote:
I don't think it is unreasonable for me to be concerned.

I fully agree, but stating your concerns and making threats are two different things. As Russ said earlier, the threats don't help the situation. It's not like Josh isn't working as hard as he can to get his GM's what they need. Threatening to quit only makes it that much harder for him to get everything for Gen Con ready.

1/5 **

Russ Taylor wrote:

Dropping out as a judge won't help anyone, and it surely will not improve the playing experience of people at the convention. I can certainly appreciate your level frustration and concern about being prepared, but even so, I ask you to reconsider for at least two reasons:

The first, as mentioned above, that in the end you won't improve the experience for players. Rather, you'll increase the load on other judge and possibly cause people to miss play. Ultimately, taking your name off what you are concerned won't be top-quality is all you'll accomplish. I'd suggest rather, you attend, and try all the harder to make this once-in-a-lifetime launch all you can.

Hmm...you're overlooking the fact that I'd like to enjoy this trip too, something that won't happen if I don't feel like I know what I'm doing.

Russ Taylor wrote:


The second is that ultimatums don't resolve tension, they increase it. We don't have any visibility in to what the internal reasons of the delay are, but I can well iamgine it is a Big Deal to release a product early and risk it being leaked out on the net. A threatenede judge walkout, even if it becomes larger, isn't going to make things budge, and the increased stress may even further delay matters behind the scene.

This isn't just a question of me taking my toys and going home (although there may be some element of that; I'm human, after all). I feel like I'm being made to feel unreasonable for expecting things to go as I was told they would when I committed to judge. I may be way off base, but I can't help but get the feeling that there is an attitude of "we're paying for your room, so we can treat you however we like." I'm here to say that $400.00 isn't that big of a deal to me, and so no, you can't treat me however you like.

Russ Taylor wrote:


Please, take a step away and reconsider. Paizo can use your help as a committed judge. Stress and frustration are understandable, but I hope no one in the community lets the tension be their master. Now is a time for fans to focus on pulling together and making this new launch a success, whatever the obstacles.

Speaking for myself, of course, as I'm only a volunteer like yourself. Thank you for taking the time to listen.

Thank you for your comments; I'm glad to hear what others think, and you may have a point about letting my stress and frustration get the better of me. For my part, it might help if a little more information were made available, rather than "not yet, check back later."

5/5

bugleyman wrote:
I'm here to say that $400.00 isn't that big of a deal to me, and so no, you can't treat me however you like.

For whatever it's worth, it seems like Josh is pretty defensive of "his GMs" and I'm willing to bet if it were solely up to him, you'd have everything you need by now. I know it doesn't do anything to help the problem, but I think it's safe to say you do have someone on staff fighting for you. Maybe a new estimate from Josh would be enough to help everyone who's volunteered?

And for everyone who reads this that has volunteered, thank you. I can't wait to play!

Grand Lodge 3/5

This doesn't need to be discussed here anymore. At this point, its between Josh and buglyman to work out. May I suggest this gets taken to email.

I'm not trying to sound judgemental but this isn't something that the rest of the board needs to deal with other than the exception of a replacement DM.

1/5 **

Kyle Baird wrote:


I fully agree, but stating your concerns and making threats are two different things. As Russ said earlier, the threats don't help the situation. It's not like Josh isn't working as hard as he can to get his GM's what they need. Threatening to quit only makes it that much harder for him to get everything for Gen Con ready.

I don't think clearly (but politely) stating my requirements amounts to a threat. I committed to judge with with the clear understanding that I would be allowed time to prepare, and we're already well past the original timeframe in which we were told we would have the rules.

Frankly, I think not delivering the rules on time, and then treating people who ask about them like they're being unreasonable is disrespectful.

1/5 **

Herald wrote:

This doesn't need to be discussed here anymore. At this point, its between Josh and buglyman to work out. May I suggest this gets taken to email.

I'm not trying to sound judgemental but this isn't something that the rest of the board needs to deal with other than the exception of a replacement DM.

You're right, of course. If nothing is available by Friday, I'll take it up with Josh via e-mail.

Liberty's Edge *

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Part of the issue is an unusual lack of transparency from Paizo staffers.

In one statement, Josh says it's not his decision to make. In the next, he makes it sound more like a technical issue than a decision, followed by saying he won't "shaft" his DMs, which goes back to indicating that he does have some kind of choice in the matter. It's all very back-and-forth/ wishy-washy/ mixed messages. No one else from Paizo has weighed in on the thread. No one has told us solidly what is causing the delay. And, to Bugley's point, it is a delay at this point.

Several of the DMs have expressed their concerns. Do I think Bugley's concerns could have been re-expressed without sounding like an ultimatum? Yes. Do I think it could have been better handled in a private EMail to Josh, if all Bugley wanted to do was say "Hey, if you can't get it to me this week, I'm gonna have to withdraw, because there's no way I can be prepared with less than two weeks?" Yes. On the other hand, if this post was posted on say Wednesday or Thursday of this week, would I be saying "me too"? Maybe. Probably not. I've been looking forward to this too long. Will I feel "shafted" as Josh put it if we don't get the rules this week? Yes.

All in all, I see Bugley's "side" of the issue much more clearly, because he has expressed himself much more clearly. I have faith that Josh is working to get the rules to us as early as allowed. It's just that the time that I'm comfortable with has passed, and the time that I absolutely need is ticking away. (All that said, I'll still be running if the only "advanced" time I get is the night before the Prom.. I won't be able to dance, but I hear the punch is Kool.)


I just got out of a meeting regarding the rules and their release and I'm confident you'll have more than enough time to review the rules before Gen Con. I'd urge patience, again, and suggest everyone chill out.

I don't want anyone to quit. I think if someone has a problem, it would be best handled in an email to me rather than brought up in a public forum. I have a waiting list for Tier 1 GMs. If it comes down to someone quitting, I have replacements.


bugleyman wrote:
... treating people who ask about them like they're being unreasonable is disrespectful.

This is patently ridiculous, especially considering how hard I fight for my GMs. You have a hotel room, a free copy of the book, $10 per slot in free swag (twice what you got last year) and some other surprise goodies at the show because I pushed for those things. I take care of my GMs. I'm frustrated because you DON'T have the rules right now. I am not being disrespectful of you in the least.

As for the lack of transparency someone mentioned above: it's ALL of those things. Approvals, technical issues, you name it, it's all in the way. Like I said, the meeting I just got out of gives me every confidence my GMs will have the rules with time enough to prepare. If this isn't the exact time frame I estimated it would be half a year ago, I apologize. I've tried very hard to avoid hard dates because I knew there would be issues beyond my control at this stage. We may be a fairly transparent company, but I'm not going to discuss the every little discussion and approval that has to happen for things to get done around here. I don't, for example share our marketing budget--I'm not going to share what the hold-up is either. It's minor and it's being resolved.

Liberty's Edge *

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Joshua J. Frost wrote:


As for the lack of transparency someone mentioned above: it's ALL of those things. Approvals, technical issues, you name it, it's all in the way. Like I said, the meeting I just got out of gives me every confidence my GMs will have the rules with time enough to prepare. If this isn't the exact time frame I estimated it would be half a year ago, I apologize. I've tried very hard to avoid hard dates because I knew there would be issues beyond my control at this stage. We may be a fairly transparent company, but I'm not going to discuss the every little discussion and approval that has to happen for things to get done around here. I don't, for example share our marketing budget--I'm not going to share what the hold-up is either. It's minor and it's being resolved.

Understood. I'm sorry that our frustration is piling up on you(especially considering your own high level of frustration at this point.) I know I tried to make my last (checkbox style) inquiry on the humorous side to deflate my own mounting tensions over the whole thing. Remember, like you, we all want to do the best job we can for GenCon, and this is fueling our "madness".

Thank you for all that you've done; I, for one, really appreciate it, even through my anxiety.


My frustration and anxiety honestly have nothing to do with this thread or my GMs. I'm a perfectionist, I want this show to go off well, and I want everyone to have fun. There will come a certain point where the show will have started and I'll get to relax and just let things come as they may--that time is not right now, though. :-)

1/5

Joshua J. Frost wrote:
My frustration and anxiety honestly have nothing to do with this thread or my GMs. I'm a perfectionist, I want this show to go off well, and I want everyone to have fun. There will come a certain point where the show will have started and I'll get to relax and just let things come as they may--that time is not right now, though. :-)

If it goes half as well as Paizocon, you'll be fine Sir Frost. :)

1/5 **

Joshua J. Frost wrote:


This is patently ridiculous, especially considering how hard I fight for my GMs. You have a hotel room, a free copy of the book, $10 per slot in free swag (twice what you got last year) and some other surprise goodies at the show because I pushed for those things. I take care of my GMs. I'm frustrated because you DON'T have the rules right now. I am not being disrespectful of you in the least.

Josh, I don't care about the money, I just want to be dealt with openly. That being said, it was unfair of me to blame you when it is beyond your control.

Joshua J. Frost wrote:


As for the lack of transparency someone mentioned above: it's ALL of those things. Approvals, technical issues, you name it, it's all in the way. Like I said, the meeting I just got out of gives me every confidence my GMs will have the rules with time enough to prepare. If this isn't the exact time frame I estimated it would be half a year ago, I apologize. I've tried very hard to avoid hard dates because I knew there would be issues beyond my control at this stage. We may be a fairly transparent company, but I'm not going to discuss the every little discussion and approval that has to happen for things to get done around here. I don't, for example share our marketing budget--I'm not going to share what the hold-up is either. It's minor and it's being resolved.

That's just silly; of course you aren't going to share your marketing budget. I'm going to refrain from further comment about this bit, because I'm sure you're a nice guy who is pretty darn overworked right now.

In any case, you're correct in that I should have done this via e-mail. I just dropped into the thread, got my knickers in a twist, and took the loudest, easiest means of contacting you. For that, I apologize.


Joshua J. Frost wrote:
...I'm a perfectionist, I want this show to go off well, and I want everyone to have fun...

Ah yes, that sounds familiar. The mad rush around in the few days before the convention starts, checking eating facilities and transport, collecting a corrected document because 'Nicolas Logue' turned out not to be spelt with an 'h' after all, last minute meetings running down checklists.... :D

Good luck to you all from the UK.

Grand Lodge 3/5

Now that we've moved on...seems to me that if we all want to get a head start on the rules, going over the blogs would be the best way to suss out some of the rules changes.

For example on the June 10th Blog the new rules for concentration came out.

So here is an idea I'm going to kick off and if we get our own messageboard area it can get moved there later.

I'm starting the thread "GenCon Pathfinder New Rules Prep". If you are interested in discussing the new rules. Want to help suss out the new rules from the blog posts, or just want to talk to others about those rules or anything else about getting ready for the game, let's post in there. We can leave this post for Josh.

Hope to see you in the other post.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Herald wrote:

Now that we've moved on...seems to me that if we all want to get a head start on the rules, going over the blogs would be the best way to suss out some of the rules changes.

For example on the June 10th Blog the new rules for concentration came out.

So here is an idea I'm going to kick off and if we get our own messageboard area it can get moved there later.

I'm starting the thread "GenCon Pathfinder New Rules Prep". If you are interested in discussing the new rules. Want to help suss out the new rules from the blog posts, or just want to talk to others about those rules or anything else about getting ready for the game, let's post in there. We can leave this post for Josh.

Hope to see you in the other post.

I think Trying to figure out the rules from the blog is a terrible idea. The rules are not in great details and people making assumptions off those details could cause misinterpetations on the rules and confusion from the rules specualated from the blog and the real ones from the book.

I suggest we just wait for the Rules PDF before we start speculating on rules based on the Blog.

Grand Lodge 3/5

Dragnmoon wrote:
Herald wrote:

Now that we've moved on...seems to me that if we all want to get a head start on the rules, going over the blogs would be the best way to suss out some of the rules changes.

For example on the June 10th Blog the new rules for concentration came out.

So here is an idea I'm going to kick off and if we get our own messageboard area it can get moved there later.

I'm starting the thread "GenCon Pathfinder New Rules Prep". If you are interested in discussing the new rules. Want to help suss out the new rules from the blog posts, or just want to talk to others about those rules or anything else about getting ready for the game, let's post in there. We can leave this post for Josh.

Hope to see you in the other post.

I think Trying to figure out the rules from the blog is a terrible idea. The rules are not in great details and people making assumptions off those details could cause misinterpetations on the rules and confusion from the rules specualated from the blog and the real ones from the book.

I suggest we just wait for the Rules PDF before we start speculating on rules based on the Blog.

I don't see how this can be a bad idea. There are alot of rules that are defined in the blogs that are spelled out. If there is some things that are unclear. the GMS can then take information from the posts and ask questions to the Paizo staff prior to the opening to GenCon.

In the other post I layout the rule for concentration as given in the June 10th blog. I'm certain that other GMs would can post there and give thier points of view.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut

Hey, Josh!

I just recently found a way to attend GenCon. I know you probably have more than enough volunteers for things. And I'm not up to speed on running PFS scenarios probably. But, if you need an extra pair of hands or anything, let me know. I'll be around and I literally have nothing planned to do right now.

So, in light of some folks getting antsy and dropping out on you, I'm letting you know I'm "all-in" instead if you need someone. :-)

--Neil

Dark Archive 1/5

Neil would you care to join or DM a pack of Paizo DM's for a midnight madness scenario late Wed night ?

You can reach me at imperial.advisor@gmail.com

Happy your making Gencon, first drink's on me.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut

If you're referring to the Wednesday night Paizo gathering, yes...I'll be there. It starts at 8PM. If we get any gaming in...I'm not sure how long I'll be able to go before I conk out. I'm not much of a late-nighter, midnight madness guy. Age has caught up to me in that regard. But I'm still interested in gaming regardless. So let's see what's available to run or play when we get there.

--Neil

Dark Archive 1/5

Let's see if we can get games in on that Wednesday and Thursday.

I have a venue for any DMs that need mods for our use that's one block from the convension center.

And that drink offer stands whenever you want it.

You can't use the age card when I probobly have 8 years on you sonny : )


You can't use the age card when I probobly have 8 years on you sonny : )

Will all you kids get off my grass :P - Don't make me chase you with my walker

Liberty's Edge 1/5

baron arem heshvaun wrote:


And that drink offer stands whenever you want it.

I want that drink if Neil's not gonna take it. ;-)

Srsly, though, Neil. It'll be nice to have you there. See ya at the thing.

Dark Archive 1/5

McCaul wrote:
See ya at the thing.

That thing in that place on that day with those people for that reason.

Rock on !

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