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WotC halts PDF sales


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Scarab Sages

Jared Ouimette wrote:

I think I will let you guys know something. I have seen most of wod, wotc and other material on filesharing sites. But I have never seen pathfinder stuff on there. It's not because you can't distribute it (you can easily erase the watermark), it's because we purchase it legally. But WotC material is up there all the time.

What does that say to you?

Also, thanks for the support Erik and Vic. You guys are awesome, and you write quality material.

Interestingly I have seen a site where all forms of illegal pdfs are made available (or links to them) and the lack of current Paizo pdfs seems to be linked to the inability to reliably remove any watermarking/protection built into them. Not entirely because it's tough, but because they can't be sure all the watermarking/protection is actually removed. This is because people won't supply pdfs to the people doing the dewatermarking. THAT speaks volumes on a site dedicated to stealing PDFs - those who do buy the product don't share it. That's awesome, and congratulations to Paizo for making such quality products to engender that kind of customer loyalty and respect.

Liberty's Edge

Yeah; that makes sense.
What Pres Man said, cept now it disappeared.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Welcome back, Bugleyman, even if this is just a fleeting visit! :)

Edit:
You may need to update your profile, if I understand your sentiments correctly.

Done. And thanks; it is nice to be remembered!

Between pulling Dungeon/Dragon, "cup of coffee" priced PDFs, the GSL debacle (both times), and this, I'm done with WotC. In fact I'm not sure where I'll land, but I refuse to keep supporting that company.

Liberty's Edge

bugleyman wrote:
Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Welcome back, Bugleyman, even if this is just a fleeting visit! :)

Edit:
You may need to update your profile, if I understand your sentiments correctly.

Done. And thanks; it is nice to be remembered!

Between pulling Dungeon/Dragon, "cup of coffee" priced PDFs, the GSL debacle (both times), and this, I'm done with WotC. In fact I'm not sure where I'll land, but I refuse to keep supporting that company.

Heh. Maybe my earlier statement in this thread was "too cynical," or, yet af#~@ing gain, I'm a f&&#ing visionary man of the future. I tend to believe the latter. The f-bomb dripping sentence.


Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

Bugleyman has returned, the rift is healed. All is well. Welcome back, Bugley.

Liberty's Edge

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Bugleyman has returned, the rift is healed. All is well. Welcome back, Bugley.

Now if you'd just leaf.


Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

yuk yuk yuk

I dunno. I'm probably too here now to leave. You'd have had to have acted quicker and stronger. (Man, that's a weird sentence. But true.)

The Exchange

Dude. He ain't goin' no where! He's rooted to the boards. Sorry for the bad joak. Anyway it's apparent that he's turned over a new leaf and that it all stems from his deciduous attitude. I mean come on, He's quite the poplar guy and his thoughts really spruce up the place.
NAAARRRFFFF!!!

Liberty's Edge

Fake Healer wrote:

Dude. He ain't goin' no where! He's rooted to the boards. Sorry for the bad joak. Anyway it's apparent that he's turned over a leaf and that it all stems from his deciduous attitude. I mean come on, He's quite the poplar guy and his thoughts really spruce up the place.

NAAARRRFFFF!!!

Oakey dokey. Don't want nobody pining over him or nothing.


Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

Groaning, the greenman lurches bedward.

Silver Crusade Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Heathansson wrote:
Fake Healer wrote:

Dude. He ain't goin' no where! He's rooted to the boards. Sorry for the bad joak. Anyway it's apparent that he's turned over a leaf and that it all stems from his deciduous attitude. I mean come on, He's quite the poplar guy and his thoughts really spruce up the place.

NAAARRRFFFF!!!
Oakey dokey. Don't want nobody pining over him or nothing.

All bark and no bite, eh?

That's a two-fer.

The Exchange

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Groaning, the greenman lurches bedward.

Tired? You should take a vacation. Might I suggest the Beech? Sorry I'm a bit of a nut today. I was trying to branch of into comedy but I got whorled around with all the frenzy. Hey if the Beech doesn't suit you then you could try a colder sport like skiing, perhaps in Aspen. Wow, I sure can be a-corny guy sometimes. Oh well, time to bough out.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game Subscriber

hmm, Do I have this right? First WoTC pisses off a bunch of companies when they pull licenses without a lot of notice, right before 4e. Then they piss off a bunch of old time player with the way they market 4e. Then they piss off more players with the actual 4e rules. Then they piss off a bunch of 3rd party companies that want to get in on the action with their licence. Then they piss off a bunch of players by not being able to deliver what they promised with DDI, Then they piss off more companies that were selling their stuff by telling them they cant sell them anymore, WHILE pissing off player who were buying the stuff that can't anymore.

Is this an episode of the twilight zone or something?

Liberty's Edge

I checked out the wizards forum; there's a 29 page gripefest; mostly people griping, and one or two Defenders of the Faith trying to fight back the tide. Now I'm predicting something along the lines of...
"WE LISTENED TO YOU!!!! WE'RE BRINGING THE PDF'S BACK ON OUR WEBSITE!!! HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY! AREN'T WE A LOT OF COOL GUYS?"

Now I'm going to go pick some lottery numbers. My powers make me independently wealthy.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The WOTC thread were everyone is complaining about them pulling the PDF has been locked by a moderator after 863 posts. Just FYI.

-Skeld

The Exchange

You are traveling
through another dimension.
A dimension of not only ignorance and stupidity,
but of greed.
A journey into a wondering land
whose boundaries are that of corporate idiocy.
Next stop....The WotC/Hasbro Zone.

The Exchange

Skeld wrote:

The WOTC thread were everyone is complaining about them pulling the PDF has been locked by a moderator after 863 posts. Just FYI.

-Skeld

Of course. Can't allow too many serfs to gain access to pitchforks and spout their discourse! It's bad for the monarchy.


Mairkurion {tm} wrote:

This piece of crap legislation needs some serious repealing. Let's name the act that repeals it the Cher Act, just to add insult to injury.

Mairkurion for the win!

Seriously, though, copyright is one of those areas that needs to be revisited. I believe that all artists need a fair period to thouroughly exploit their works (I believe 40-50 years is a fair time), but copyright was never intended to be perpetual. It was meant as a spur for more creativity by allowing the author the fruits of his labor for a period, then to create something new because the copyright would expire. It was never meant as a financial haven for his childen, or his chilren's children, nor as a near-perpetual cash cow for corporate executives who may have had nothing to do with the original author.

Liberty's Edge

Skeld wrote:

The WOTC thread were everyone is complaining about them pulling the PDF has been locked by a moderator after 863 posts. Just FYI.

-Skeld

Well, that solves everything.


Fake Healer wrote:
Skeld wrote:

The WOTC thread were everyone is complaining about them pulling the PDF has been locked by a moderator after 863 posts. Just FYI.

-Skeld

Of course. Can't allow too many serfs to gain access to pitchforks and spout their discourse! It's bad for the monarchy.

No, this one I can't fault WotC for (as much as I'd like)-- I think it was because it was getting ugly. I reported a couple of posts just before the lock, one of which was a pretty vicious libel attack against Paizo, accusing them of fraud because they offer unlimited downloads. On the other side, a poster was slinging around a pretty nasty anti-gay slur against WotC... seriously, it just degenerated.


Charles Evans 25 wrote:

(edited, reworded)

I have yet to see any lengthy posts from Paizo about this business except to confirm a few facts regarding their arrangements with the PDFs.

I am guessing that there is a legal requirement that they not discuss or comment on how this has happened or what they would have liked to have done differently if they had had the opportunity.

My sympathy to Paizo, if you have been legally gagged with regard to explaining what has been going on these past couple of days; I am fairly certain you would give fuller explanations if you could. :(
(And even your enforced silence speaks volumes.)

You could be right.

But I attribute their silence to professionalism. Even if they could say anything, and wanted to, they choose not to.

Liberty's Edge

heh heh heh...


Heathansson wrote:
heh heh heh...

Steve Jackson for the win! :)

I think Paizo should start classifying their books -- make them UltraTangoUpperDoubleTopSecret Eyes Only NOFORN Burn After Reading... and then have all customers cleared only for Confidential... LOL

Liberty's Edge

They should staple their books to explosion dogs. When you read it and say, "the end," the dog blows up, killing you, then regenerates and eats your guts. THAT'LL stop those effing pirates.


Fake Healer wrote:
Skeld wrote:

The WOTC thread were everyone is complaining about them pulling the PDF has been locked by a moderator after 863 posts. Just FYI.

-Skeld

Of course. Can't allow too many serfs to gain access to pitchforks and spout their discourse! It's bad for the monarchy.

Well they have opened it again. So go at them!


Darvon wrote:

I didn't download my stuff in time, just lost access to 20+ ad&d pdfs.

It's stuff like this that makes you look like an idiot infront of your friends who just pirate their stuff to start with...

Good job Wizards.

I might just point out that the ability to download things in perpetuity is not a given. Many are feeling burned, but in the end much of it is their own fault for not saving the material and backing it up, something we should all know in this day and age to do. Of course if a company gave you the indication that you would be able to download the products in perpetuity, then perhaps you might be able to get some kind of refund from that company.


Heathansson wrote:
They should staple their books to explosion dogs. When you read it and say, "the end," the dog blows up, killing you, then regenerates and eats your guts. THAT'LL stop those effing pirates.

Ah, but if the pirates are too smart for that and just don't utter the fatal words?


pres man wrote:


I might just point out that the ability to download things in perpetuity is not a given. Many are feeling burned, but in the end much of it is their own fault for not saving the material and backing it up, something we should all know in this day and age to do.

Yeah -- I for one downloaded my files to two different computers (my home box and my laptop) and keep a disc backup, so that in the event that one of those three go belly-up, at least the other two are still there.


Im adding my 2 bits here.
I don't play D&D all that much. I DO have quite a few books and some boxed sets. I would LOVE to get the boxed sets of Forgotten Realms, someday (sigh). I do download PDFs, but not that many of them. I find that I USE PDFs to research storylines or check data. The ease of the electronic medium is the benefit. If I had the option, I would probably purchase physical books and supplement with PDFs.

What does WOTC hope to gain?
More physical book sales? - I thought this was a green economy.
More people interested in Heroscape (conspiracy theory there)?
Should I look out for roving bands of WOTC police coming to take away my original D&D box set because I COULD scan it? (I WONT).
If I go to GENCON, are they going to confiscate everyones stuff?

Now, looking forward, if I had a kindle (or other device) and I downloaded a pdf to read or play. And I then deleted that pdf from my device to make room for another....Can I download the pdf again or do I have to PAY all over again? and again?
What about when I misplace the receipt? how do I prove ownership?

Some many questions....I'd rather be playing D&D.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

Heathansson wrote:
They should staple their books to explosion dogs. When you read it and say, "the end," the dog blows up, killing you, then regenerates and eats your guts. THAT'LL stop those effing pirates.

+1

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Bugleyman has returned, the rift is healed. All is well. Welcome back, Bugley.

Thank you. Forgive me if I lurk a bit; I still don't know if Pathfinder is ever going to be the game for me, but after months of virtual wandering in the wilderness it is nice to see some familiar faces.

And to everyone I've accused of hyperbole for saying WotC was a poor steward of D&D: You were right. Now I'm off to start silently praying that Hasbro gets it over with and sells the D&D brand so I can just forget the last 12 months ever happened.

Scarab Sages

welcome back then bugleyman


bugleyman wrote:
Mairkurion {tm} wrote:
Bugleyman has returned, the rift is healed. All is well. Welcome back, Bugley.

Thank you. Forgive me if I lurk a bit; I still don't know if Pathfinder is ever going to be the game for me, but after months of virtual wandering in the wilderness it is nice to see some familiar faces.

And to everyone I've accused of hyperbole for saying WotC was a poor steward of D&D: You were right. Now I'm off to start silently praying that Hasbro gets it over with and sells the D&D brand so I can just forget the last 12 months ever happened.

Welcome back. It doesn't matter if you play 3.5, 3.P, 4.0 or something else (Palladium, GURPS, Hero, or anything else). You are welcome here. Now get moving and start to mingle! ~grins~


bugleyman! *glomp*

Liberty's Edge

YARR! Man the grappling hooks boys! I see me whole fleet o' scanned PDFs on th' horizon!

Not that I encourage piracy. WotC does enough of that on their own.


What a crock!

I didn't buy that many PDFs because I prefer print, but I did purchase some long out of print 1e modules (some of the classics I don't have in my collection). It had been nice to know that if I ever lost one of my older items I could find it as a relatively cheap PDF on Paizo, or if I wanted one that I never had purchased back in the day then I could still find it. Now that's gone.

Well done WotC. I've only purchased one 4e item, but this announcement is just one more reason to avoid purchasing their product in the future.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Pawns Subscriber
Cap'n Swabby wrote:

YARR! Man the grappling hooks boys! I see me whole fleet o' scanned PDFs on th' horizon!

Not that I encourage piracy. WotC does enough of that on their own.

What is indeed sad is that a legal company seems to be using piracy as a useful escapegoat and an (probably unwilling) pawn in its marketing campaigns, The events of these days are interesting:

1. Lawsuit against a bunch of P2P sharers.
2. Withdrawal of pdf products.

My doubt was why Wizards took decided initative a couple day ago, in close proximity to pdf withdrawal, apparently presenting as grievous injury the sharing of PH2, a supplement of its 4e line shared after being purchased.

Compare this to what happened last year, when the whole 3 first core rulebooks "leaked" as final drafts into the internet (something which was discussed about in these forums). I am no lawyer, but pre-publication illegal distribution of a product seems to be a far more grievous crime against IP! (just check the crisis going on in the US about the Wolverine movie pre-release leak). But in that case Wizards was quite passive. Not to say they created the leak (no evidence for that), but it served them well, as it connected with the genesis of the big 4e vs. 3e "internet war", creating opinion and attention for the new version in an early stage of marketing.

A piracy leak was quite useful for Wizards as an incidental advertising stunt. Now it seems that piracy is serving then as an escapegoat for a rearrangement of their digital product services.

Dark Archive

pres man wrote:
Fake Healer wrote:
Skeld wrote:

The WOTC thread were everyone is complaining about them pulling the PDF has been locked by a moderator after 863 posts. Just FYI.

-Skeld

Of course. Can't allow too many serfs to gain access to pitchforks and spout their discourse! It's bad for the monarchy.
Well they have opened it again. So go at them!

Argh. Took a quick look at it, and I must say I've never seen so much vitriolic bile in a long time.

No more, please.


Huh? Some companies just have trouble adjusting to the future. Really I am amazed at this. Perhaps some gamers will get a little more Vitamin D as they go out to buy D&D and perhaps others will find another game to play.

Go Pathfinder! And get PayPal I want to buy some PDFs and support you guys!

Scarab Sages

golem101 wrote:
pres man wrote:
Fake Healer wrote:
Skeld wrote:

The WOTC thread were everyone is complaining about them pulling the PDF has been locked by a moderator after 863 posts. Just FYI.

-Skeld

Of course. Can't allow too many serfs to gain access to pitchforks and spout their discourse! It's bad for the monarchy.
Well they have opened it again. So go at them!

Argh. Took a quick look at it, and I must say I've never seen so much vitriolic bile in a long time.

No more, please.

Sad how that whole thread has become an "it's all paizo's fault " thread really sad

Silver Crusade Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
seekerofshadowlight wrote:
golem101 wrote:
pres man wrote:
Fake Healer wrote:
Skeld wrote:

The WOTC thread were everyone is complaining about them pulling the PDF has been locked by a moderator after 863 posts. Just FYI.

-Skeld

Of course. Can't allow too many serfs to gain access to pitchforks and spout their discourse! It's bad for the monarchy.
Well they have opened it again. So go at them!

Argh. Took a quick look at it, and I must say I've never seen so much vitriolic bile in a long time.

No more, please.

Sad how that whole thread has become an "it's all paizo's fault " thread really sad

Zombieneighbors and ??????? are holding their own though.

Good on you ZN. It's like two Razz's threadcrapping over there. Only, y'know, for different editions.


Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

Peeks cautiously into thread, trying to determine if any punsters are awake yet...meets with stray exploding dog, but refuses to take it in, and wanders off to look for the illustration of the day...

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
seekerofshadowlight wrote:


Sad how that whole thread has become an "it's all paizo's fault " thread really sad

I'm not going to sully myself by going there and looking at the thread, but I'm curious ... how can this possibly be Paizo's fault? What, they're successful with their continued support of 3.x, and wotc has pulled this stunt because they're threatened???

Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012 , Star Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Mothman wrote:
seekerofshadowlight wrote:


Sad how that whole thread has become an "it's all paizo's fault " thread really sad
I'm not going to sully myself by going there and looking at the thread, but I'm curious ... how can this possibly be Paizo's fault? What, they're successful with their continued support of 3.x, and wotc has pulled this stunt because they're threatened???

I have a feeling that it's someone who doesn't know Paizo and saw their name prominently featured on the "cease and desist" list. The unnatural conclusion being that Paizo, a competitor, encouraged the illegal file sharing. Since RPGNow/DriveThruRPG isn't a direct competitor, then they can't be blamed.

Anyway, that's just a guess. Whatever the reason, it's irrational and it's on the Internet. :)


Pathfinder Tales Subscriber

Hmm...irrational, uncritical fans....WotC....WotC...irrational, uncritical fans...


noretoc wrote:

hmm, Do I have this right? First WoTC pisses off a bunch of companies when they pull licenses without a lot of notice, right before 4e. Then they piss off a bunch of old time player with the way they market 4e. Then they piss off more players with the actual 4e rules. Then they piss off a bunch of 3rd party companies that want to get in on the action with their licence. Then they piss off a bunch of players by not being able to deliver what they promised with DDI, Then they piss off more companies that were selling their stuff by telling them they cant sell them anymore, WHILE pissing off player who were buying the stuff that can't anymore.

Is this an episode of the twilight zone or something?

No, you're watching the Microsoft of the RPG Industry.

Liberty's Edge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012 , Star Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

I'd say it's something in the water, but how does Paizo, also based in the same general area, keep from doing the same thing? :)


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
taig wrote:


I have a feeling that it's someone who doesn't know Paizo and saw their name prominently featured on the "cease and desist" list. The unnatural conclusion being that Paizo, a competitor, encouraged the illegal file sharing. Since RPGNow/DriveThruRPG isn't a direct competitor, then they can't be blamed.

No, it seems to be raw, pure hatred of Paizo for daring to compete with WotC. There are three posters who take every opportunity to throw dirt at Paizo with hate speech. The moderators already warned the crowd a few times that everyone should honor the CoC and be respectful, but why these three posters which are the epitome of unrespectfulness are not already banned is beyond me.


Just saw this comment over on the WotC thread...

Some dude on the WotC boards wrote:


While this entire situation is full of suck, it will be interesting to see how long Paizo can hang in there now that WotC has cut the purse-strings (almost) completely. Now we get to see just how "popular" Pathfinder really is.

LOL!

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Sad how that whole thread has become an "it's all paizo's fault " thread really sad

I peeked in this morning around page 30. Wow, the vitriol and misinformation passed about by one poster in particular is worse than anything I've seen on a forum in years.

Thanks for reminding me again why I stopped reading the "official" D&D boards.

I had a great conversation with our Business Development VP this morning (she is not a gamer in any way). She loved the story and was absolutely stunned.

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