...take a dip in the Pacific for the first time. Done and Done.
That's not really something you want to do here... sure, stick your foot in if it makes you happy, but this isn't a place to go swimming. Sure, the Puget Sound doesn't have the rip tides of the ocean, but it is still freaking COLD here... the way the currents move bring cold water down from Alaska... not really good swimming until somewhere down in CA.
Sean Mahoney
"Not really good swimming" meaning "cold enough to kill you if you're in too long."
I grew up in San Diego. I love the beach. The water's cold there, like 55˚F most of the year, but I'll still swim in it on a hot day.
I've been to the beach ONCE in Washington, in summer. Got in up to my knees. Never again!
Maybe if I had a wetsuit, but ... brrrr.
A scattering of comments:
*THINGS TO DO WITH KIDS: I grew up here, and as far as "places to go" are concerned, I don't think you can really beat the Woodland Park Zoo, the aquarium down on the waterfront, and the Pacific Science Center, which is usually full of crazy and awesome exhibits. Of course, all of that’s in the city. In Bellevue, there’s... um... Barnes and Nobles... and the mall...
*CLUBS: If you actually want to go out dancing, you'll want to hit up the gay clubs like R Place and Neighbors on Capitol Hill in the city proper. If you're straight, you'll also want to to hit up the gay clubs. Seriously - the straight dance clubs here tend to be in places like Pioneer Square, and they're totally gross. Meathead fratboys and sorority hoochie-mamas galore. Cool bars, on the other hand, are a dime a dozen in the city, as are nifty local coffee shops. Bellevue, again, is much more limited, but nobody says you can’t have fun drinking at the Cheesecake Factory.
*TRANSPORTATION: Do you need to rent a car? The short answer is: yes, if you want to see anything other than Paizocon itself. Bellevue (where the con is) is a suburb, part of the region we call the Eastside - Seattlites don't consider it part of the city at all, and for good reason: there's a very large moat named Lake Washington separating the two. While Bellevue is pleasant and has plenty of places to eat, shop, etc., expect to see nothing you haven't seen a million times before... this is the land of the franchise. If you want character, you're going to need to go into the city proper, and the public transportation system here doesn't connect the two very well. I live in a quite accessible part of the city, and if I want to ride the bus to work (15 miles, with two major thoroughfares connecting us), it takes an hour and a half ONE WAY. If you don’t rent a car or team up with some folks to split a cab, expect to spend all your time at the con and the mall-based suburban center that surrounds it.
*SWIMMING: HAHAHAHAHAHA. No, seriously, you’re welcome to give it a shot, but our gorgeous lakes are glacial in nature, and once you’re in, you’ll be convinced that the glacier melted last week. All the lakes take until about late July to actually warm up to swimmin’ temperature, even for those of us who grew up around them. Puget Sound is swimmable maybe twice a year.
Take your oils of Resist Elements for a nice swim!
*rubs body with oily stuff on a sexy way*
Take your oils of Resist Elements for a nice swim!
*rubs body with oily stuff on a sexy way*
I've seen the gnu picture Hugo...it is going to take more than oily stuff to make you sexy.
CJ
Take your oils of Resist Elements for a nice swim!
*rubs body with oily stuff on a sexy way*
I've seen the gnu picture Hugo...it is going to take more than oily stuff to make you sexy.
CJ
Aw c'mon, that is my good angle!
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We're visiting Seattle for the first time and bringing our three daughters (11, 13, 16). We are flying in Wednesday night so that we will have Thursday for sight-seeing. I'm looking for suggestions for say the "top 3" things you would want to see with children of that age. Space needle I'm guessing would be one...any other suggestions???
When my sister visited we took the ferry to Bainbridge and back. Pretty much rode the ferry there, walked up the ramp off the ferry and turned around and got in line to go back (only had t pay one-way). Seattle looks beautiful from the ferry and riding the ferry is a novel (and can be an exciting) experience for those who don't have to do it everyday.
When I was younger, ferry rides were a treat. As a kid, there was nothing better than standing at the front of the ferry with the wind whipping through my hair, or standing at the back mesmerized by the foamy trail the engines leave in their wake. Maybe I am just a nerd, but if I had kids, riding the ferry would be on the DO NOT MISS list.
Depends on where you park and when you drive.
I live in the University District of Seattle, right next to UW, very close to the intersection of 520 and I-5. It takes me about 15-20 minutes to drive to/from Bellevue if there's no traffic. If there is traffic, it can take an hour... which is why I start and end work 1-2 hours after "normal" hours, so I don't deal with traffic. Shifting 1-2 hours earlier than normal is pretty clear, too, so if you're heading to the con at 7 or 730 for an 8am event you should be sitting pretty.
I don't know what parking is like at and near the hotel. Josh?
Parking in the U-District can be slightly annoying because it's a residential/student area; there's free street parking but it's sometimes 5 blocks from where you live. For me it's not so bad, I like the area, like the walk, and like the college girls I see. :) If you're staying in Capital Hill (closer to I-90), free parking gets much more scarce as you're closer to the downtown/shopping/Pike Place Market area, but unless there's a baseball game going on you should be able to find a pay lot (and your hotel should be able to direct you to one they use).
The hotel is surrounded by a large parking lot.
A scattering of comments:
*TRANSPORTATION: Do you need to rent a car? The short answer is: yes, if you want to see anything other than Paizocon itself. Bellevue (where the con is) is a suburb, part of the region we call the Eastside - Seattlites don't consider it part of the city at all, and for good reason: there's a very large moat named Lake Washington separating the two. While Bellevue is pleasant and has plenty of places to eat, shop, etc., expect to see nothing you haven't seen a million times before... this is the land of the franchise. If you want character, you're going to need to go into the city proper, and the public transportation system here doesn't connect the two very well. I live in a quite accessible part of the city, and if I want to ride the bus to work (15 miles, with two major thoroughfares connecting us), it takes an hour and a half ONE WAY. If you don’t rent a car or team up with some folks to split a cab, expect to spend all your time at the con and the mall-based suburban center that surrounds it.
If we just rent a car to get to Bellevue and drive around Bellevue and back to Seattle, could we get around Seattle ok with public transportation? We plan on going to the Space Needle, Pike Place Market, Underground Tour, and maybe the Science Museum. We are staying at the Quality Inn Sea-Tac for the first two nights before the con.
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I'd agree with the Salmon House, though I also like Chinook's out at Fisherman's Terminal - a little bit harder to find if you're an out-of-towner, though.Oh, yes, Chinook's is mighty tasty as well. I like the Salmon House because of the view of Lake Union, and the motif of the restaurant. Plus, Ivar's is part of Seattle's history. I think my visitors get a big kick out of it.
Then, after dinner, I take them up to the Fremont Troll nearby. :D
Seastar is very good. And it's on the correct side of the lake with the Hotel. :-)
http://www.seastarrestaurant.com/
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*CLUBS: If you actually want to go out dancing, you'll want to hit up the gay clubs like R Place and Neighbors on Capitol Hill in the city proper. If you're straight, you'll also want to to hit up the gay clubs. Seriously - the straight dance clubs here tend to be in places like Pioneer Square, and they're totally gross. Meathead fratboys and sorority hoochie-mamas galore. Cool bars, on the other hand, are a dime a dozen in the city, as are nifty local coffee shops. Bellevue, again, is much more limited, but nobody says you can’t have fun drinking at the Cheesecake Factory.
+1 on the Capital Hill clubs. They're the best.
On the eastside you're limited to some very scary hotel bars with divorcees looking for love in all the wrong places...
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If we just rent a car to get to Bellevue and drive around Bellevue and back to Seattle, could we get around Seattle ok with public transportation? We plan on going to the Space Needle, Pike Place Market, Underground Tour, and maybe the Science Museum. We are staying at the Quality Inn Sea-Tac for the first two nights before the con.
The Space Needle and Science Museum are together. (Along with EMP and the Sci-Fi Museum, btw). So you can do those at the same time. The space needle opens at 9:30 (the earliest) and because you avoided the lines you'll be able to hit the science center when it opens at 10. There's a good parking lot next to the EMP. (you won't miss it...)
Then, take the Monorail down to Westlake center and walk down the hill to Pike Place market. Have some lunch and see the flying fish and do a bit of shopping.
From there, take the stairs down from Pike Place market to the waterfront, and take the Waterfront Trolly down to Pioneer square for the Underground. The Underground is better later in the day anyway.
And yes, I've done this before. Many, many times. Lots of visitors over the years....
Pete Apple is pretty much dead on with monorail. All the major activities are pretty much on one end of the monorail or the other.
And they are all pretty close too.
Dont forget to look at http://www.citypass.com/city/seattle.html which Paul Hedges brought up. Good savings and it comes with coupons for getting pictures on the space needle as well as a culinary tour of Pikes Place.
However, the citypass doesnt cover the underground tour but it does cover a ferry ride. The ferry is also close to Pikes Place though, which is close to the monorail.
I'm trying to figure out how to get from the airport (where we drop off the rental car) to the train station. Any ideas? Our train leaves at 7:40am to go to Vancouver for our cruise.
Pete Apple is pretty much dead on with monorail. All the major activities are pretty much on one end of the monorail or the other.
And they are all pretty close too.Dont forget to look at http://www.citypass.com/city/seattle.html which Paul Hedges brought up. Good savings and it comes with coupons for getting pictures on the space needle as well as a culinary tour of Pikes Place.
However, the citypass doesnt cover the underground tour but it does cover a ferry ride. The ferry is also close to Pikes Place though, which is close to the monorail.
The pass looks like a great deal. I don't think we'll be able to hit all of the places but I think even if we go to 2 or 3 of them it will be cheaper than buying them individually. Thanks for the advice!
which train station?
and which car rental? Asking in case there may be somewhere closer to the train satation for you to drop off the car.
which train station?
and which car rental? Asking in case there may be somewhere closer to the train satation for you to drop off the car.
Station Building (with waiting room)
303 South Jackson StreetKing Street Station
Seattle, WA 98104
Budget Rent-a-car
I found a budget rental place near the train station
801 4th Ave, Seattle, WA 98104 google map
however, I dont know if they take cars from other budget rentals
and I also dont know the area well enough to tell you if walking around there at that time in the morning is a good idea.
If your leaving from the seatac airport area that early in the morning your best plan might be a cab which should flatrate at $30 or so for downtown seattle. You can call them to be sure.
Orange Cab Tel (206) 522 8800 & Yellow Cab (206) 622 6500.
If you decide to go downtown to have a nice dinner, I always go to Cremant. It's a bus ride from downtown, but it's got the best door in Seattle and the food is amazing.
Hate to break it to you, but Cremant went out of business like a month ago. They had a closing night blowout in which they invited people to come down and eat and drink everything on hand. It's a shame, as their steak tartar and bone marrow were awesome.
There are tons of good places to east in Seattle. In the downtown/Belltown area you've got:
Bamboo Garden: Kosher vegetarian Chinese food. Yes, really, and it's good. Near the Space Needle.
Cafe Yarmarka: Unpretentious but delicious Russian food. They've got about three tables and plastic chairs, but they deliver on the food. Great pelmeni, stuffed cabbage,and soups. In Post Alley in the market.
Can Can Kitchen and Cabaret: Have dinner and a show here or just the show. The Can Can has a resident cabaret troop that includes burlesque dancers, gymnasts, and even a goth belly dancer. Not cheap but fun. In the market.
Ipanema Grill: As much grilled Brazilian meat as you can eat. I had dinner here with Erik Mona once and even that stout Midwesterner eventually surrendered to the relentless waiters and their giant skewers of meat. Near Pike Place Market.
Le Pichet: French bistro with pate, sandwiches, and other country fare. The same folks run the equally excellent Cafe Presse in Capitol Hill. 1st Ave near the market.
Macrina Bakery: You can get great baked goods to go or sit down for soups, sandwiches, and the like. 1st Ave north of the market.
Panos Kleftiko: This Greek proclaims this the best Greek food in Seattle. They have a huge variety of small plates and we usually just pick a half dozen of those and call it dinner. Close to the Space Needle and the EMP.
Pike Place Chowder: They have excellent clam chowder, and I say that as a New Englander. Salmon and other varieties also tasty. In Post Alley in the market.
Shiro's Sushi: Traditional sushi place but high quality. Good for omakase dinners. 2nd Avenue.
Umi Sake House: Excellent Japense food and hip decor. They have many unusual sushi rolls, some of which are tempura battered and fried. Mmmmm. 1st Ave north of the market.
Wasabi Bistro: More good Japanese. If you go for lunch, they have a great pick and choose bento. 2nd Ave.
Wild Ginger: Family style Chinese food. If you are a vegetarian, make sure you ask for their special veggie menu. On 3rd Ave near the post office.
Zig Zag Cafe: They have food here but the reason to go is the drinks. Murray Stenson, one of the best bartenders in the country, is the star attraction. His knowledge of mixology is amazing and he ensures the Zig Zag drink list is always interesting. If you are feeling bold, just ask for Murray's choice with the alcohol of your choice and he'll surprise you. On the Pike Street Hill Climb.
I could go on but I need to go to bed. If you are looking for a specific cuisine, just holler.
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Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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I posted this over on the Meet and Eat, when it should have been posted here.....
I also can recommend a fun Korean Grill place down in the Factoria/I-90 area: South Gate Garden. It's got the hibachi grill in the table and everything! They do serve a pretty good spread of banchan, with kimchi and many other little pickled and salted sidedishes.
Actually, there are 2 Korean places in Bellevue....the other is Blue Ginger. Blue Ginger seems, to me, to be a bit more pricey, and more popular/upscale. South Gate is sort of located in an out-of-the-way place, so it never seems "hopping" when I go there.
On the eastside you're limited to some very scary hotel bars with divorcees looking for love in all the wrong places...
Oh thanks for the tip!
*Googlemaps for Eastside, clickity click....*
On public transportation:
I don't know anyone who actually takes the monorail, seeing as it goes for like ten blocks and was built entirely as a novelty. But go for it if you want to!
As for the trolley... in addition to the fact that it's temporarily closed (at least according to that link), I'd forget that any of the streetcar systems even existed if it weren't for the fact that the South Lake Union Trolley prompted many of my friends to purchase "Ride the S.L.U.T!" t-shirts.
If you want reliable public transportation in Seattle proper, take the bus!
"Ride the S.L.U.T!" t-shirts.
I think the official name was changed to South Lake Union Streetcar after those shirts started being made. SLUS just doesn't have the same ring to it.
I found a budget rental place near the train station
801 4th Ave, Seattle, WA 98104 google map
however, I dont know if they take cars from other budget rentals
and I also dont know the area well enough to tell you if walking around there at that time in the morning is a good idea.If your leaving from the seatac airport area that early in the morning your best plan might be a cab which should flatrate at $30 or so for downtown seattle. You can call them to be sure.
Orange Cab Tel (206) 522 8800 & Yellow Cab (206) 622 6500.
Unfortunately that location is not open on Sundays so that won't help us. :( Thanks for the info on the cab. I'll give them a call and see what their rates are.
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On the eastside you're limited to some very scary hotel bars with divorcees looking for love in all the wrong places...Oh thanks for the tip!
*Googlemaps for Eastside, clickity click....*
Sadly, I'm afraid the mysteriously popular Misty's Lounge at the beautiful Bellevue Red Lion (Doubletree.. Hilton?) closed a few years go. I am unsure where the cougar's have moved on to prowl.
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Just wanted to post an update. Apparently,my favorite french restaurant, Cremant, has had some problems. Unfortunately, it's caused somewhat of a problem and I'm inclined to believe Scott's side of things when it comes to this particular story. Suffice it to say, Cremant lost it's true artist as he was forced out so I can no longer give it a recommendation. =( Stupid politics.
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Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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Still wondering about these things.
Juice Bar. I want Wheat Grass Shots!
I have NO idea....drinking grass....(shudder).
Bakery! I want to hit the best bakery in town!
I think 3 Girls Bakery across from Pike Place Market is hailed as pretty darned good. Are you looking for breads, or pastries and other associated baked goods?
Organic Food Store Yes, the good stuff.
We have Whole Paycheck...er, FOODS, right across the way from the hotel...but that's pretty big chain type. We also have PCC's, which might be what you're looking for.
Stadium/IMAX Movie Theatre I am ashamed of watching movies in my town.
Pacific Science Center in the Seattle Center has an IMAX. Usually show 1 box office release (right now it's Night in the Museum 2) at a time, plus the usual nature/documentary features.
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Thanks Timitius!
Yes, three girls bakery sounds like the one. I will be touring around Pike'e Market Thursday. Guess I can grab it there. Any good exquisite cheese shops would also be good. Bringing a mini fridge with me.
Breads! Yes. I love European Bread. I also love bread that has hard crust. Very tasty.
Any idea where to find Boar's Head meats?
Any idea where to find Boar's Head meats?
I know around here (in Oregon) the upscale markets (including Whole Foods) carry the Boar's Head brand.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Bakery! I want to hit the best bakery in town!
It's a bit of a drive from Bellevue, but the best bakery in the state that I've found in 10 years of active searching is Bakery Nouveau in West Seattle, accessible via bridge from Seattle proper.
Holy god their croissants and baguettes are to die for, and they have great chocolates, brioche, quiche, etc. Unbelievably good. Definitely worth a visit.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Ok, if you're already planning to hit Pike Place Market (and you should), you'll want to hit La Panier (you can't miss it), a huge French bakery in the market. It's not as good as Nouveau, but it's a lot easier to get to and you'll already been next door.
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Still wondering about these things.
Juice Bar. I want Wheat Grass Shots!
Bakery! I want to hit the best bakery in town!
The best bakery in Bellevue is Belle Pasty. It's not as good as Bakery Nouveau, but, then again, it's not in West Seattle either.. :-) We hit it up before heading to BelSquare on the weekends.
Organic Food Store Yes, the good stuff.
There's also a Whole Paycheck and Trader Joe's in Bellevue. PCC is better, but there isn't one in Bellevue.
But seriously, stop in at Nature's Pantry. It's in the same building as the University book store and it's a great place.
Stadium/IMAX Movie Theatre I am ashamed of watching movies in my town.
IMAX just down the street from the hotel! We have indoor plumbing too. You'll love it.
Cheese: You just missed the Seattle Cheese Festival! Now that was a fun time.
We like Byblos -- Of course it's primarily Med. based cheeses, but that's the kind we like! :-)
If you're going to be anywhere near Pike's Market, just go to DeLaurenti and make sure you bring enough for everyone else. ;-)
Hope this helps!
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Bakery! I want to hit the best bakery in town!
It's a bit of a drive from Bellevue, but the best bakery in the state that I've found in 10 years of active searching is Bakery Nouveau in West Seattle, accessible via bridge from Seattle proper.
Holy god their croissants and baguettes are to die for, and they have great chocolates, brioche, quiche, etc. Unbelievably good. Definitely worth a visit.
Hell, I will go the extra mile for the best bread of the decade. Driving there will be a privilidge. Bakery Nouveau, here we come!
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Still wondering about these things.
Juice Bar. I want Wheat Grass Shots!
Bakery! I want to hit the best bakery in town!
The best bakery in Bellevue is Belle Pasty. It's not as good as Bakery Nouveau, but, then again, it's not in West Seattle either.. :-) We hit it up before heading to BelSquare on the weekends.
Organic Food Store Yes, the good stuff.
There's also a Whole Paycheck and Trader Joe's in Bellevue. PCC is better, but there isn't one in Bellevue.
But seriously, stop in at Nature's Pantry. It's in the same building as the University book store and it's a great place.
Stadium/IMAX Movie Theatre I am ashamed of watching movies in my town.
IMAX just down the street from the hotel! We have indoor plumbing too. You'll love it.
Cheese: You just missed the Seattle Cheese Festival! Now that was a fun time.
We like Byblos -- Of course it's primarily Med. based cheeses, but that's the kind we like! :-)
If you're going to be anywhere near Pike's Market, just go to DeLaurenti and make sure you bring enough for everyone else. ;-)
Hope this helps!
Yes it did. Thank You! Thank You!
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Bakery! I want to hit the best bakery in town!
It's a bit of a drive from Bellevue, but the best bakery in the state that I've found in 10 years of active searching is Bakery Nouveau in West Seattle, accessible via bridge from Seattle proper.
Holy god their croissants and baguettes are to die for, and they have great chocolates, brioche, quiche, etc. Unbelievably good. Definitely worth a visit.
Since I will be there Erik, you want anything?
There are a few things that get me adventurous. Beer, bread and deli are right up there.
We're visiting Seattle for the first time and bringing our three daughters (11, 13, 16). We are flying in Wednesday night so that we will have Thursday for sight-seeing. I'm looking for suggestions for say the "top 3" things you would want to see with children of that age. Space needle I'm guessing would be one...any other suggestions???You should go on the Underground Tour. I haven't been myself, but its supposed to be really fun.
So does the Underground actually look like it did when those pesky kids visited?
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Any advice on a good steak place?
Now I'm not talking dress up fancy (seriously, I own one tie for interview purposes and it's in storage in Boise, with everything else) and be a snob, but good steak and fixings that's okay with my showing up in jorts, steel-toed hiking shoes and a t-shirt.
A good beer selection is solid, too, so long as I don't have to drive back...if I've got to drive, then I either don't drink or drag out the meal so as to not be intoxicated by the end of the meal...or get blitzed and taxi-it. ;)
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Any advice on a good steak place?
Now I'm not talking dress up fancy (seriously, I own one tie for interview purposes and it's in storage in Boise, with everything else) and be a snob, but good steak and fixings that's okay with my showing up in jorts, steel-toed hiking shoes and a t-shirt.
A good beer selection is solid, too, so long as I don't have to drive back...if I've got to drive, then I either don't drink or drag out the meal so as to not be intoxicated by the end of the meal...or get blitzed and taxi-it. ;)
Best Steak in Seattle: Buenos Aires Grill
Plus the Tango's fun to watch ( and participate in, if you're so inclined)
If you want more reasonably priced and has a location on the eastside, try Jak's
In bellevue there are Daniel's and El Gaucho, both of which are way overpriced for what you get. Oh and there's a Ruth's Chris at the Bellevue Mall. Bleh.
-Pete
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Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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So, I'll be showing Hugo around the area on Wednesday and Thursday.
Wednesday, I believe we'll be going to Seattle Center, and take the Space Needle and the EMP/SciFi Museum, and maybe the Pacific Science Center for an IMAX. If we get bored with that, a hop on the Monorail to Westlake will get us into downtown Seattle, and we can go to the Seattle Art Museum (SAM) or perhaps some of the Market area.
Hugo and I will be taking in Pike Place Market and the waterfront on Thursday. If time allows, we may get over to Pioneer Square and do the Underground Tour, but we will need to get to try and be back before 5:30 for the Meet and Eat. (Note: Rush hour in Seattle starts at about 4).
We may be taking the bus.....
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Something I hadn't considered before is the Microsoft Visitor's Center (Museum + Company Store) that just opened up in new digs if you're into that sort of thing. Might be good for a quick Friday morning visit if you've got a car. Not sure they're going to have a Natal in there to try out yet. :-)
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Best Steak in Seattle: Buenos Aires GrillPlus the Tango's fun to watch ( and participate in, if you're so inclined)
If you want more reasonably priced and has a location on the eastside, try Jak's
In bellevue there are Daniel's and El Gaucho, both of which are way overpriced for what you get. Oh and there's a Ruth's Chris at the Bellevue Mall. Bleh.
-Pete
Definitely a solid group of options, much appreciated. I just know I wanna do a couple things in Seattle, outside of of the hotel. I'm sorta tempted to go early, save for it meaning finding a room someplace and then transfering to the Con location.
Maybe after the Summer term I'll hit Seattle, again. :D
It's not the best steak in town, but the Keg is where Paizonians occasionally dine. And it's reasonably near the convention hotel.
Sounds like another solid option. I like casual dining, especially a good steak and potato. :) Thanks for an option.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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It's not the best steak in town, but the Keg is where Paizonians occasionally dine. And it's reasonably near the convention hotel.
Yikes, wow. It's not even close to the best steak in town. More like the best steak within 3 minutes of Paizo's office that's cheap enough to expense for a business lunch.
Do not go there if you are coming here from out of town. You only have so many meals while you're here, and the Keg is definitely a waste of one of them.
If you live here and have to have a business meeting with me at noon on a weekday, sure. :)
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Yikes, wow. It's not even close to the best steak in town. More like the best steak within 3 minutes of Paizo's office that's cheap enough to expense for a business lunch.
Do not go there if you are coming here from out of town. You only have so many meals while you're here, and the Keg is definitely a waste of one of them.
If you live here and have to have a business meeting with me at noon on a weekday, sure. :)
Well, I've got time to plan...I do know, in theory, I should be trying some of the best chai in the area while I'm up there.
As for the steak...my tastes are fairly straight forward, something good, something like I could find on a neighbors grill if they really loved grilling steak. More seasoned than spicy, et ceteras.
Good heads up and clarification, though.